joeainscow Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Hi, Somebody moved into a house surrounded by some of our land towards the end of September, about the time i left for Uni. Since i'm really the only one who shoots on the the land regularly there wouldn't of been much shooting up until when i got back home. One of the main flight paths is about 200m away from his house. The first time i went out this christmas i noticed a man stood watching me with his dog in one of our fields behind me. He stayed there for 20 mins or so and didn't move but I didn't think much of it. It started to amuse me as he'd appear like clockwork within ten mins of the first shot. I tried at 9 in the morn (being a student this is v early) and at 4 in the afternoon. He appeared each time. This didn't bother me but when he started walking directly in front of me it really worried me. So much so he actually knocked one of my decoys of it's peg. There's a footpath to the side of my favorite shooting spot and he intentionally came off it at right angles to walk in front of me. He didn't just walk across my line of fire but once directly in front turned and walked directly away. Obviously i couldn't begin firing again till he was at least 300m away. I then decided to stop shooting there for a bit and try elsewhere. I started a topic on here regarding the laws on setting up a clay pigeon trap on your own land with this incident in mind. The trap was set up roughly 1km+ away from his house. After the first few shots a man appears and starts walking up the fields towards us. Opening gates (not shutting them behind him) and hopping over a fence to stand directly under the clay route The nearest footpath runs alongside his house and parallel to the shoot so 1km+ away. I asked him could he please move away but he just stood there. This really wound me up as it was obviously ruining my shooting once again. I'm not proud of what i did next but he was winding me up immensely. I proceeded to walk past him about 30m or so away from him and start to discharge and reload my shotgun in the opposite direction. After about the 20th cartridge he walked past me calling me a urinating masturbator but in other words and said he was going to ring the police again. I'm not sure on the legal implications on my actions? Also is there anyway of stopping him coming onto our land off the footpaths? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Google "Right to roam" mate - which exists to allow members of the public to access foreshore's and mountains for example, and possibly entitles them to excercise a dog off it's lead. It does not apply to enclosed land, you mentioned gates - which implies the land is fenced or hedged. He's probably selectively read up about footpaths across private property and you might find you may need to install posts that show the direction the footpath takes across your private land if you don't have them. I believe there is also a requirement for his dog to be kept on it's lead. Sounds like he needs to be put in his place pronto and I think there is an offence regarding him obstructing your shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 put up some signs stating that it's private land and to keep to the footpaths, then video him trespassing/leaving gates open if he does it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Sounds like a right pain in the rear of a situation. I think, but not sure that the public are allowed onto your land (to knock the door for example) but if you do not want them on your land you are entitled to ask them to leave and not come back. Its at this point if they do not comply they are tresspassing and you would have the law on your side. Public paths are another thing, they would have a right of way, but only on the path with respect to your property etc Take some legal advice (from someone qualified to give it) so you know whats what and where you stand. Then if he doesnt play ball at least you have the Law to enforce which may encourage him to stand down. Hope you get it sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Naturenet "It is not normally possible to be a trespasser whilst legitimately on a right of wayPages marked with this symbol are exclusively written for Naturenet. However, if the user is not using the right of way as a route to get from one place to another, but using it for some other reason, such as to interfere with the landowner, they can be considered to be a trespasser. A real example of this (before open access land was in existence) concerned a hunt saboteur who was deemed by a court to be a trespasser for shouting and waving flags, whilst on a footpathPages marked with this symbol are exclusively written for Naturenet, on a grouse moor. This important distinction was the purpose for which the person was there. This does not mean that it is always wrong to shout and wave flags on a footpath." There are loads of articles found via Google. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 (edited) This might be of help, taken from the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994: '68 Offence of aggravated trespass (1) A person commits the offence of aggravated trespass if he trespasses on land in the open air and, in relation to any lawful activity which persons are engaging in or are about to engage in on that or adjoining land in the open air, does there anything which is intended by him to have the effect— (a) of intimidating those persons or any of them so as to deter them or any of them from engaging in that activity, b of obstructing that activity, or c) of disrupting that activity. (2) Activity on any occasion on the part of a person or persons on land is “lawful” for the purposes of this section if he or they may engage in the activity on the land on that occasion without committing an offence or trespassing on the land. (3) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months or a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale, or both. (4) A constable in uniform who reasonably suspects that a person is committing an offence under this section may arrest him without a warrant. (5) In this section “land” does not include— (a) the highways and roads excluded from the application of section 61 by paragraph b of the definition of “land” in subsection (9) of that section; or b a road within the meaning of the [s.I. 1993/3160 (N.I. 15).] Roads (Northern Ireland) Order 1993.' Edited January 4, 2010 by guest1957 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 ok firstly is the land yours? or just the permission? assuming your parents are the landowners get them to contact the guy and ask him to stop trespassing up front and direct is usually the best route, If that doesn't sort the problem then you have to go down the legal route and contact the police about him trespassing / interfeering with a legal activity etc You'll need to speak to your rural liason officer but it may work. You've done the worst thing possible in discharging a firearm near him and thats where you can get into hot water so don't try it again no matter how much he asks for it as there is only your word its not directed at him. Sounds like a situation to sort out by direct action rather than just hoping he'll stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC45 Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 I would have thought a letter in writing would do it, and you could also quote what the law states in regards to tresspass. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 I would have thought a letter in writing would do it, and you could also quote what the law states in regards to tresspass.Phil As opposed to???? Smoke signals? Semaphore??:lol:???/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC45 Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 As opposed to???? Smoke signals? Semaphore??:lol:???/ Better than words, I would have thought that was obvious! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 From your wording I presume that your parents are the landowners. From the mapping they will know if any of your land is classed as "open access". I would imagine that as enclosed farmland it is not. Remember that trespass is a civil not criminal matter therefore the police will not be interested unless you can show that he is committing an offence. If your land is not open access your best course of action would be to ask your father to instruct his solicitor to write to the chap instructing him to desist from trespassing on your land otherwise action will be taken against him for aggravated trespass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toka_shigazu Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 get your parents to write a letter to him, enclose a map showing footpaths, and explain [perhaps by attaching the offence of aggravated tresspass] his rights. if he is comitting the offence of agg tresspass, then it is a police matter and you should warn him of this. get in touch with your feo as well as your local bobby to pre warn them. i would also, discreetly, video any other 'meetings' you have with him, or discreetly record anything said [on a mob phone] etc, just in case as someone has said he goes to the police and tells them a porkie pie about exactly what was said/done etc... good luck...as suggested i would think this would need direct action, rather than hoping it will go away. if nothing else he is putting himslef in danger by 'sneaking up' on you whilst you are shooting, which in turn is putting you in a difficult position. ATB, keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 (edited) Somebody moved into a house surrounded by some of our land towards the end of September, That's an easy one ....start planting a double row of Leylandii Conifer around his house to block his view for starters, followed by copious amounts of mature, piled in vast heaps.....(just to make them grow quicker), & keep topping it up. BJ. Edited January 4, 2010 by Bazooka Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 You are entitled to report it as aggrivated tresspass and detail what has happened until now. If they want more evidence, provide it. It is also worth noting there is a legal duty of care to an anticipated trespasser (repeat incidents might well mean you can anticipate this), so if there was a shooting accident there could be real problems, if you didn't warn that it would be happening. (I am not a qualified solicitor, but an interested student) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethevanman Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 I think he might of been in the wrong, intentionaly comming of the path, I have had a problem with a man appearing in the hedge on my shoot after firing full bore and shotguns all day with friends. But he never comes over, if someone comes along just stop shooting and chat, always worth it, I also tihnk the 300m tihng only refers to a direction. Provided you are firing the other way , it should be fine within reason...e.g. obviously dont shoot if he is 30Ft away Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Start firing clays at the bas tard out of the trap as soon as he comes within range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 That's an easy one ....start planting a double row of Leylandii Conifer around his house to block his view for starters, followed by copious amounts of mature, piled in vast heaps.....(just to make them grow quicker), & keep topping it up. BJ. A townie moved near to one of the farms I shoot and complained about the farmewr welding in the barn about 1/2 a mile away from his house. The erection of a barn at the bottom of this chaps garden stopped all further complaints, unfortunately his view of the surrounding country was greatly curtailed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeainscow Posted January 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Cheers for all the advice. I'll mention it to my dad and see if he'll go up and speak to him. He just won't talk to me!! Just got in now from a bit of foxing, think it was a bit too late for him. Snow is coming down really heavy! Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sauer Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 fed up of these assh*les citing right to roam ...thats all they repeat over n over again but..... with the right to roam comes rules and accountability and when you ask themn if they know that??? ...eh.... no blank looks all round countryside code sorts em out if you are a member of NGO, SGA or BASC your covered with legal cover phone and ask for advice from their legal rep sauer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddman Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Joe I think considering the aggro you've had, you've dealt with the situation well. I don't think I'd have had the maturity not to rise to the bait when I was your age(or now for that matter). It sounds to me like he is trying to provoke you into doing something foolish. You're the one with the SGC to lose - don't give him the satisfaction. As others have said the solution lies with your parents. Hopefully you've been letting them know every time there's been a problem. If it's their land then as others have suggested they need to deal with him - both as landowners and parents. I wouldn't be happy with the idea of one of my children being 'stalked' whilst they're in possession of a gun and ammo. A letter from the landowner explaining where the rights of way are and an invitation to discuss any 'concerns' he may have about your lawful activity will at least put you on the moral high ground. I don't think it would be unreasonable to get the police involved (at least the FEO). Get yourself insured if you're not already. Best Wishes Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Take your dog into his garden and exercise him well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) I think sauers advice is sound, talk to someone in BASC legal dept (if you are a member) about it rather than asking on here. Also if he brings a dog with him there may be a legal issue there if you have livestock. Dog fouling can be an offence in its own right. I'm not entirely sure that the right to roam extends to dog walking, I believe it only covers ramblers and the like but check it out with BASC. Oddman's advice is good as well, If your FEO is a good sort maybe they would have a word with him. Coming from the police that might do the trick. Certainly deliberately walking in front of you when you are shooting would constitute a public order offence and knocking over your decoys is criminal damage. Also there could be an infringement of your Human Rights (pathetic I know but still law) if its a family farm you have the right to work and you have the right to harvest game as part of your legal farm activity. Thats a weak argument I know but its still the law. Edited January 6, 2010 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 The so called 'right to roam' does NOT as many walkers would have you believe a give a god given right to go where you please. Even public rights of way i.e. footpaths can only legally be used to get from A to B. It does not give the right to indulge in any other activity and if any person is demonstrating or causing a nuisance on said footpath the police have the powers to intevene. Trespass is a civil NOT a criminal offence and as such the police have no powers to act BUT aggravated trespass is a criminal offence and the police do have powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) The so called 'right to roam' does NOT as many walkers would have you believe a give a god given right to go where you please. Even public rights of way i.e. footpaths can only legally be used to get from A to B. It does not give the right to indulge in any other activity and if any person is demonstrating or causing a nuisance on said footpath the police have the powers to intevene. Trespass is a civil NOT a criminal offence and as such the police have no powers to act BUT aggravated trespass is a criminal offence and the police do have powers. Correct so why do folk as in this case wait so long to contact the Police, they may not attend they may not help but it will be on record so going forward it will help the land owners case failing that a little should at least make you feel better Edited January 7, 2010 by pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB916 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Invite everyone you know with a shotgun to come round early Sunday morning and have a clay competition, an hour or so of 3 man flushes. If he comes out tell him you thought he was so inteested in your shooting you would give him more to look at. Dave B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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