apache Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 No - I am certain drowning is not humane and you could be prosecuted under the Animal Welfare Act. (I am a Vet if it adds any credibility to my argument!) I said that on a thread earlier this month! It is illegal to release them back into the wild, as they are not native. Who has ever been quoted £70 to euthanase a squirrel? I would put down a large dog and have it cremated for less. Taking it to the vet isn't necessary (airgun!) but most wouldn't charge you very much. Drowning is a cruel way to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Could a trapped animal in a cage be dispatched with CO2 or N2 without falling foul of the regulations as CO2 is used to dispatch unwanted hen chicks? nah - it would just escape out of the bars CO2 would be fine, shooting - basically any sort of instantaneous death or a death where by you go sleepy without panic! You could break it's neck if you dare, or hit it with a brick, just not make it suffer for a few minutes drowning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlin vs Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Iv'e never read such bull,i'd kill a grey squirrell by any mean's available, they are only furry rat's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lez325 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) Yes poor bloke BUT ignorance of the law never has been a good defence. Drowning can never be a good option as it takes time, anything that's quick is also best. The RSPCA will use these breeches of the legal position at every opportunity to try and stop us enjoying fieldsports. It doesn't matter how much of cat loving grannies money they waste doing it in their eyes they are at war with us so it's time we and the likes of BASC fought back! Although I appreciate not in this instance as the guy clearly wasn't taking part in 'fieldsports' or watersports more like Not very nice to drown things I would imagine a slow death and full of panic and fear shoot the bugga's I say 12 bore 32g No6 works for me Les Edited July 20, 2010 by Lez325 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ91 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) I assumed he just lowered the cage into a water butt with the grey still in. Just how humane is rat poison? I assumed the vermin died a lingering death from internal bleeding? most rat poisons thin the blood therefore any tiny cut the animal bleeds to death, usually the blood is to thin to pump around the body, i imagine there will be a small amount of suffering for some but the majority will go to sleep and when the heart rate drops the blood wont get around and they wont wake up i think the newer rat poisons are aimed at the brain...damage that and goodnight mr/mrs rat (this is what i have been told by a pest controller...correct me if i am wrong!) Edited July 20, 2010 by TJ91 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Interesting as people who have had "near death experiences " by drowning say its quite calm an peacefull near the end. maybe less nasty than being shot and wounded... just a thought doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J@mes Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 just the 2-3 minutes beforehand where you thrash around gasping for air while your lungs fill with water which isn't so nice then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 just the 2-3 minutes beforehand where you thrash around gasping for air while your lungs fill with water which isn't so nice then! cant think of any way i would want to die, but maybe thats just me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 I thought drowning was the usual technique for dealing with mink when trapped It may be the usual way but it is not the approved way and highly likely illegal (as this case proves). The only reason folk tend to drown mink is that the cage trap is usually set next to water so it is the easiest thing (laziest) to drop it in the water next to where it was trapped. Being aquatic animals probably takes then a very long time to drown, not a very pleaant way to go. IIRC the guidelines from the GWCT and BASC on the destruction of cage trapped mink are to shoot in the head with an airgun or to empty out into a sack and dispatch with a blunt instrument. Definately not drowning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvbus Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 It may be the usual way but it is not the approved way and highly likely illegal (as this case proves). The only reason folk tend to drown mink is that the cage trap is usually set next to water so it is the easiest thing (laziest) to drop it in the water next to where it was trapped. Being aquatic animals probably takes then a very long time to drown, not a very pleaant way to go. IIRC the guidelines from the GWCT and BASC on the destruction of cage trapped mink are to shoot in the head with an airgun or to empty out into a sack and dispatch with a blunt instrument. Definately not drowning. I don't think any of the methods of dispatch mentioned so far are 'nice ways to go'! Are you guaranteed to get that first clean head shot with a caged animal, is the first blow to the sack going to do the job or will it take two or three goes to deliver a fatal blow.....? It's a difficult subject to come up with a definitive answer. I have no involvement with trapping so I will sit on the sidelines and read with interest the responses that follow, it's a thought provoking topic though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punt Gun Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 It's a difficult subject to come up with a definitive answer. Luvbus hit the nail on the head, this was a test case which needed a guilty verdict to set presidence. Now that there is presedence the lawyers can do their thing twisting the English language in ten different directions meaning that any form of putting an animal to sleep will be twisted in to "cruel", I think we all need to be careful and BASC needs to clarify this I don't think any of the methods of dispatch mentioned so far are 'nice ways to go'! Are you guaranteed to get that first clean head shot with a caged animal, is the first blow to the sack going to do the job or will it take two or three goes to deliver a fatal blow.....? It's a difficult subject to come up with a definitive answer. I have no involvement with trapping so I will sit on the sidelines and read with interest the responses that follow, it's a thought provoking topic though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) If you go stick the naughty end of a rifle next to the head of a caged animal and pull the trigger I reckon you can pretty much eliminate any chance of missing. Edited July 20, 2010 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizzini Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Not on at all. Thats just sick, drowning an animal. Couldn't the bloke have a bit more respect for them, i know they are not liked much but that doesnt mean they cant have a peaceful ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Drowning it is cruel. End of. Shouldn't trap something if you don't have the means to kill it. Either shoot it or put it in a sack so its still in the darkness and whack it on the head with a heavy blunt implement. Far more humane. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosdesilva Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 I used to catch quite a lot of squirrels and used the air rifle to dispatch humanely,saying that i did used to let the odd one loose in the garage to give the terriers a treat,they wrecked the place pursuing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Sounds like political point scoring by the RSPCA to me. When reading the story this morning there was no mention about intended cruelty and whist I don't condone this guys actions surely a formal warning would have been sufficient? A six month conditional discharge and £1500 fine seems a little steep when people get a lot less for a lot worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 To quote the article again "When a bird lover managed to trap one of the grey squirrels raiding his nut feeders, he decided that drowning would be the most humane way to dispose of it". I can't see anything that suggests this bloke is a countryman or even a member of BASC. If he was there is a fair chance he would have known the basics about humane dispatch. All I can suggest is that the RSBP educates bird lovers regarding natural pests. If members thereof wish to deal with such vermin I am sure the BASC would be pleased to advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearandnoidea Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 This is an article in the telegraph saying people should agree with the animal rights nuts and cherish grey squirrels: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews...quirrel....html However, their idea on how to cherish them is with shallots, garlic and mashed potato :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 I saw it and agreed with the fact it was totally wrong to drown it, whether it was worthy of a prosecution or whether advice should have been given is another thing. Though you can't argue with the charge he did cause unnecessary suffering and though its only a squirrel I'd hope not many on here would set out to caused prolonged suffering to an animal as that is not what our sport is about at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Stalker Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 Mk 4 fenn traps set in a tunnel, works for me & the many 100s of squirrells that have been inquisitive enough to poke there heads in! No trying to get a distressed wild animal capable of biting through to the bone out of a trap to knocked it on the head, or trying to shoot one through the bars with an air rifle. Job Done :blink: The bloke was a numpty SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosdesilva Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 (edited) al4x "I'd hoped not many on here would set out to cause prolonged suffering to an animal" you obliviously missed the post informing some one to mix up slug pellets and honey and stick down the holes of any underground pest.The original thread was reguarding getting rid of rats but reading between the lines was'nt that hard to see what the slug pellet remedy was aimed at. Sorry not pests, underground creatures if you khow what i mean. Edited July 21, 2010 by carlosdesilva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
243win Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 (edited) Guys, Taken from the British Pest Control Association pest management manual. The Wild Mamals (Protection) Act 1996. It is an offence to: Mutilate, Kick, Beat, Impale, Stab, Burn, Stone, Crush, DROWN, Drag or Asphyxiate any wild animal with intent to inflict unnecessary suffering. Exceptions allow pest control, shooting and hunting to be carried out providing that the animal is killed swiftly. This eliminates drowning as a means of dispatching trapped animals. I guess this is why they procecuted him. As an aside it is an offence to release a traped grey squirrel back into the wild. Hope this puts a bit more light on the thread. Edited July 21, 2010 by 243win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferretertom Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 now we enter another dimension of a safe killing practice,were does this leave ferreters ,once a rabbit is caught in the net or by the teeth of your ferret ,you hold it and despatch it to kill it using your hands,do the RSPCA want you to take it to a vet :blink:? are we going to be fined for cruelty That did cross my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferretertom Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 I have recently set up a Facebook page. Josephine's Action against All Animal Cruelty And Abuse, I want to make a difference, however small, so go and search for it and leave messages, and let me know what has been going on in your are and, what is being done about it, if I think I can step in, I will, i'll put animals first before some rotten "humans" or should that be morons I know. Anyone joining up? lol This is a shooting forum! Not that im saying anyone heres cruel but *** is that all about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearandnoidea Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 This is a shooting forum!Not that im saying anyone heres cruel but *** is that all about! I think it was one of the messages that was left at the bottom of the article on the daily mail website and was being quoted on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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