IS IT ALLOWED?

[Axe]

In sweden they use .222 to shoot Game birds from trees. There was an article in ST a few years back where two brothers were out shooting and decided to go on either side of the valley. Anyway one brother lined up on a bird in some conifers and brought down the bird. The bullet however carried on and killed his brother on the other side of the valley :look:

Jesus, Murphy must have been doing overtime that day!! I would never take an elevated shot unless sure of a firm back stop. And no my brother is not a firm back stop.

[digger]

topic title = is it allowed ?

is it acceptable should be the question,sorry to be pedantic.a bullet travels a damn site farther than either spent shot or a spent air rifle pellet.there cant be many on here who beat who havent been showered in spent shotgun pellets that bounce off hats and clothing.beggerd if id want to do the same under a shower of .22s.

sory wol but if you have to ask you alredy know the answer

[Axe]

I could never take this sort of shot as I couldnt be sure of where the bullet would end up if I missed. Ok, thats not the idea, you intend to hit your quarry but at what risk. In my opion, regardless, don't take this shot. It is dangeorous even if your in the middle of no where. Can you see where your shot will end up, no!

[new to the flock]

Again......Safe Back Stop.

 

Now I know that I shoot different quarries than you lot, and I know that I shoot for different reasons than alot of you....example being, fur harvesting we do not harvest fur with shotguns.......I also shoot for some of the same reasons as you, crop protection being an example. What I dont understand is why this shot is being evaluated as if it does not have a safe back stop.

 

NTTF

 

And NO I am not looking for a war just a solid explanation.

 

And no I dont believe that a skinny little 8 inch tree in the open is a safe back stop. However that same tree in a woods surronded by other taller trees, may well be judged as safe.

Edited April 10, 2006 by new to the flock

[Axe]

Nttf, living in an area where there are too many people all with equal roaming rights, a stray bullet is not somthing I want to entertain. Its not like I can walk out into the wilderness with the reassurance that the only thing between me and my rifle is 50 miles of woodland and wildlife.

 

Obviously this differs around the country, but most of us, shoot within smaller boundaries and risks are something that shouldnt be taken.

[new to the flock]

Axe sorry I was editing my last post as you were posting.

 

Axe I have to tell you, I live in an area that is identical to central England, I cannot walk out and be in the wilderness, but by using safe shooting practices and not taking risky shots I do harvest out of trees.

 

Now not to start a battle but tell me another way to harvest a treed coon which may well weigh anywhere from 20 to 60 pounds, or a treed bear, or treed cougar...(mountain lion). Before anyone says shoot them on the ground we tree them in alot of cases for selected harvest, and to remove them from unsafe residential areas. Also on the raccoons remember it is illegel for us to ground shoot a .22cal here at night. The only way we can leagally shoot a .22 at night is under a licence to hunt raccoons, and we must be accompanied by a licenced coon hound whos job is to tree coons....

 

NTTF

[Axe]

I cant speak for anyone else on here but really and truly, I would love to take those sort of shots. However, those creatures are alot bigger than annything over here as your probably aware. Tree shooting a squirrel with a .22LR is not wise, A 60 pound target is different but still a risk.

[new to the flock]

I will stop arguing this thread....but I do beg to differ :look:

 

NTTF

[dazza]

Lets not start a Forum War, but can anyone post links to details of people being wounded, or killed by falling bullets ?

'A bullet's terminal velocity is the downward speed at which the upward force of air resistance acting on it balances its downward weight. Once the falling bullet reaches this speed, it coasts downward at a steady rate. Because air resistance depends largely on surface area while weight depends on volume, larger bullets will drop faster than smaller bullets (just as a piece of chalk drops faster than chalk dust). While I am not sure of the exact speed of a dropping bullet, I expect it to be several hundred miles per hour. As to whether or not it can kill someone, the answer is most definitely yes. In fact, a distant cousin of mine was killed several years ago during Mardi Gras when a falling spent bullet pierced her brain. Firing bullets into the air is an extraordinarily foolish and inconsiderate action. In cultures where it's common to fire guns during celebrations, innocent people are frequently killed by these descending "party favors." If you ever see people shooting guns into the air, you should immediately seek cover in a basement. Their bullets will return to earth in less than thirty seconds and will be just as deadly when they arrive as if they had been shot right at you.'

[Frank]

A sobering thought for you all, links below:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4103348.stm

 

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0504/somersd.html

 

http://www.fermanaghlive.com/_news/localar...D=86656&NCID=13

 

This poor lad could of so easyly died .

Be safe, know your back stops people.

[Frank]

Allways be 120% sure before you fire.

[dunganick]

Lets not start a Forum War, but can anyone post links to details of people being wounded, or killed by falling bullets ?

'A bullet's terminal velocity is the downward speed at which the upward force of air resistance acting on it balances its downward weight. Once the falling bullet reaches this speed, it coasts downward at a steady rate. Because air resistance depends largely on surface area while weight depends on volume, larger bullets will drop faster than smaller bullets (just as a piece of chalk drops faster than chalk dust). While I am not sure of the exact speed of a dropping bullet, I expect it to be several hundred miles per hour. As to whether or not it can kill someone, the answer is most definitely yes. In fact, a distant cousin of mine was killed several years ago during Mardi Gras when a falling spent bullet pierced her brain. Firing bullets into the air is an extraordinarily foolish and inconsiderate action. In cultures where it's common to fire guns during celebrations, innocent people are frequently killed by these descending "party favors." If you ever see people shooting guns into the air, you should immediately seek cover in a basement. Their bullets will return to earth in less than thirty seconds and will be just as deadly when they arrive as if they had been shot right at you.'

i believe that one of the shooting comics worked this out, and i seem to recal a .308 with a 150 grain projectile would carry 27ftlb when at its terminal velocity.

 

i may try and find this article later.

[Zapp]

On the topic of how dangerous a round fired at a high angle is, the army uses the 7.62 GPMG in an indirect (ie non line of sight) fire role. Some of the trajectories used for this are pretty high, high enough to make the round lose a lot of its initial energy and be falling to quite an extent by the time it reaches it's target in the same way as a mortar or artillery. The rounds still have more than enough energy to kill when fired like this (granted that 7.62 is a bit heftier than .22! )

 

Pete

[MC]

I think the answer to this one is ALWAYS ensure you have a backstop that YOU consider to be safe.

 

I would consider the trunk of a tree to be a safe backstop, as I would a hill or a pile of earth. However I certainly wouldn't fire a rifle into the air.

 

Cheers

 

MC

[Sergeant]

Many a time have i followed a running squirrel through the scope to the base of a tree, in the hope that it will stop, but i have always desisted once it is in the tree and likewise i have not thought about attempting a deflection shot.

A bit off topic, but I see some people have mentioned .22 short, can they be bought in this country, and are blank rounds available?

[gibby]

http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/March01.htm

 

something about bullets terminal velocity of a 150gr .30

 

 

 

Based on the results of these tests it was concluded that the bullet return velocity was about 300 f.p.s. For the 150 gr. bullet this corresponds to an energy of 30 foot pounds. Earlier the Army had determined that, on the average, it required 60 foot pounds of energy to produce a disabling wound. Based on this information, a falling 150 gr. service bullet would not be lethal, although it could produce a serious wound."

[henry d]

30ft lbs at an (in)appropriate area......ie. Cranium is not a serious wound..........it`s dead.

[.17 hummer]

Axe sorry I was editing my last post as you were posting.

 

Axe I have to tell you, I live in an area that is identical to central England, I cannot walk out and be in the wilderness, but by using safe shooting practices and not taking risky shots I do harvest out of trees.

 

Now not to start a battle but tell me another way to harvest a treed coon which may well weigh anywhere from 20 to 60 pounds, or a treed bear, or treed cougar...(mountain lion). Before anyone says shoot them on the ground we tree them in alot of cases for selected harvest, and to remove them from unsafe residential areas. Also on the raccoons remember it is illegel for us to ground shoot a .22cal here at night. The only way we can leagally shoot a .22 at night is under a licence to hunt raccoons, and we must be accompanied by a licenced coon hound whos job is to tree coons....

 

NTTF

i believe its more than possible to harvest the species you mention wiyh the shotty rather than a rifle. when boar shooting in thick scrub i often used then winchester 1400 semi auto shotgun with sg,s . and when the dog treed a cat it got an ounce of them up the clacker. if an ounce of sg,s will take a large boar at close range then im sure it would adequately deal with any species at bay in a tree.

still cant see the need to shoot a rifle at a creature in a tree./

[new to the flock]

17 hummer;

 

First off unless you were firing slugs through the " shotty" it would be illegal. Secondly your feral cats that you were shooting may have weighed in around 30 pounds the cats I am talking about weigh in between 120 to 200 pounds. And thirdly if you would like to use your shotty loaded with pellets on a black bear that has the chance of weighing up to 600 pounds feel free.

 

Used correctly and using a safe back stop such as a trunk there is no reason not to take an elevated shot.

 

NTTF

[rarms]

I think to really get a definitive answer, what you need to do, is ring you local licensing officer, and give him your FAC number and name and ask him if it is ok to shoot things out of trees with a rimfire rifle.

 

Then we could all run a sweepstake on how long it would take for your ticket to get revoked!

 

 

If there is something in a tree use a shotgun or an air rifle.

 

<EDIT>

 

>Used correctly and using a safe back stop such as a trunk there is no reason not

>to take an elevated shot

 

 

NTTF, while this is correct, I would suggest that everyones shooting abilities are different, and should a shot be 'fluffed' or a gust of wind which isnt felt at ground level move that bullet, it is potentially going a long way.

 

In the UK I doubt you would find many square kilometres without at least one human on it so there could always be the chance that that lump of lead is going to come down on someones head.

 

</EDIT>

Edited April 12, 2006 by rarms

[the pelt man]

Sorry all but i am with NTTF on this, BUT only if i was in that Country that says its ok to shoot .22 rim's elevated.

 

In the UK its a NO, .22 rim elevated on a tree rat NO NO NO.

 

But in Canada on dif quarry then yes maybe.

 

You would have to go out with NTTF to see what he deems a safe shot & what is not, then judge his safty issues. You cant judge by reading text because you maybe drawing up a false mental picture.

 

I think if any of you were handed a .22 rim out in Canada & was offered a shot at the sorts of Quarry NTTF is talking about, you would look for a place to take a shot with a safe back stop, you would not hand the rifle back & say no thanks.

 

When taking a shot at large Quarry the margin of error of a clean kill or injury is no dif with the Animal up a tree or on the ground. But the margin of error of a total miss on large Quarry or tree rats is a lot greater, added to this a back drop of tree trunks then is it not deemed a safe shot ?.

 

Be sure to understand that in the UK i would not take an elevated shot with anything but a shotgun or air rifle as our UK Quarry list dose not require it.

 

 

The Pelt Man

[Highlander]

In this country never never ever fire a rifle/firearm in the air OR at anything that you could miss and not have a good backstop. I don't consider a tree trunk a good enough backstop. There was a case a (good) few years ago of a woman walking with a friend on Bisley ranges the military part not the civilian bit. Took a lethal 9mm Browning pistol round in the head. Apparently fired quite legitimately from an army range nearly 2 miles away. Missed the target and bounced over the back stop. I believe she might have been the wife of an RAF Wing Commander.

[mel b3]

i wouldn't disagree with nttf as i know he's a very safety concious hunter and if he didn't feel that the shot was 100% safe he wouldn't take it , myself i don't think i'd ever have the bottle to shoot up into a tree with the rimmie , a bit too scary for me i'm afraid .

[.17 hummer]

17 hummer;

 

First off unless you were firing slugs through the " shotty" it would be illegal. Secondly your feral cats that you were shooting may have weighed in around 30 pounds the cats I am talking about weigh in between 120 to 200 pounds. And thirdly if you would like to use your shotty loaded with pellets on a black bear that has the chance of weighing up to 600 pounds feel free.

 

Used correctly and using a safe back stop such as a trunk there is no reason not to take an elevated shot.

 

NTTF

nttf/ firstly it is not illegal to use a shotgun with heavy letter shot against an animal in australia. secondly , wild boar often weigh in excess of 250pounds and are much heavier armoured than a mountain cat and can assure you that shot such as sg or even ssg are very capable on boars.

i rarely shot solids as they cause too much meat damage and the commercial chiller companies wouldnt take them.

firing a solid, weighing in excess of 300 grains would have been as irresponsible as firing a rimfire skyward let alone a centre fire.

if you so chose to hunt large species from trees then its your call . ive never hunted in canada so i bow to your experience, just saying i wouldnt do it. no offence meant or taken, dan

[deadeye ive]

This is Taken from Franks post

 

It says it all really ................

 

 

 

 

Darragh was among 180 children in the playground when he fell to the ground after being struck by the bullet.

 

Police believe it was a stray bullet from someone out shooting for vermin on nearby land.

 

 

Officers have seized at least ten .22 rifles in an attempt to identify the owner of the weapon responsible and are also studying a list of registered firearm holders.

................................................................................

......................................

 

 

................We are human and therefore do and will **** up once in a while and hopefully when not out with a rifle in hand ................Why take the chance or increase the risk !

 

Dan ........your opinion is based on circumstances that won't be encountered over here ,but your still entitled to it Imo