Using clay loads for pigeons...didn't go well

[RossEM]

Yesterday I went out for a little decoying session with the 20 bore, I rarely do clays so I don't buy cartridges smaller than 6's, but I was given a few Eley 7s and Winchester 8s a while back, so put them into the bag with some Express steel 4s and Victory 6s.

 

Decoys were out at 35 yards, horseshoe pattern.

 

I had three birds coming in straight away and it looked pretty good. To cut a long story short, I am NEVER going to use shot smaller than 6 again on live quarry. I wounded or missed between 15-20 birds with the Eleys & Winchesters, before I took them out of the bag and stuck with the 6s & steel 4s, with which I got a clean right & left straight away and killed a few nice high birds.

Now, I would've said the two highest quality cartridge makers are Eley and Winchester, certainly for game. Not quite so convinced about their clay loads.

 

It might be a totally different story with the wider spread of a 12 bore, I don't know. Ended up with 15 pigeons picked up. Could've been maybe 30 if I'd been using proper cartridges - I've been told in the past that 7s are no good for pigeons, but I thought at short ranges it'd make no difference. My advice - use 6s!!

[matty*]

I only used 28g 7.5 for pigeons when i had my 20g and shot my fare share of decent bags with clean kills. Now i use my xtrema i only use rio 28g 7.5 in 12g and they hit like a train, at a good range aswell. Oh and the 20g load were fiochi.

[Guest stevo]

you owe it to your quarry to use an adequate load , just my 2 p worth

 

regards

 

steve

[RossEM]

you owe it to your quarry to use an adequate load , just my 2 p worth

 

regards

 

steve

Agreed mate

[strangford wildfowler]

I use a 12 bore and even I won't use anything lighter than 28 grams for a clean kill

[Imperfection]

I remember Mungler saying something few years back when this discussion came up.He said if 6's were the same price as 7.5's everyone would use them,but since clay loads are much less some will always go for the cheaper option.

 

I personally wont use clay loads.

[Guest stevo]

I know its a case of each to there own , but I always have and always will use 28-30 grams of 6s or 32 grams of 5s if its windy ,

this is by no way a recommendation ,merely the minimum loads I feel happy and confident will deliver a clean quick kill based on my shooting ability with a 12 gauge .

 

regards steve

Edited August 25, 2013 by stevo

[figgy]

Just buy continental clay loads there 7s and plenty of cart makers do game carts in sevens for small game birds.

 

It's not the cart but the range its used at.

 

Figgy

[Cranfield]

You were using a mixture of 7 and 8 shot 20 bore cartridges, but weight load were they ?

[The Essex Hunter]

Yesterday I went out for a little decoying session with the 20 bore, I rarely do clays so I don't buy cartridges smaller than 6's, but I was given a few Eley 7s and Winchester 8s a while back, so put them into the bag with some Express steel 4s and Victory 6s.

 

Decoys were out at 35 yards, horseshoe pattern.

 

I had three birds coming in straight away and it looked pretty good. To cut a long story short, I am NEVER going to use shot smaller than 6 again on live quarry. I wounded or missed between 15-20 birds with the Eleys & Winchesters, before I took them out of the bag and stuck with the 6s & steel 4s, with which I got a clean right & left straight away and killed a few nice high birds.

Now, I would've said the two highest quality cartridge makers are Eley and Winchester, certainly for game. Not quite so convinced about their clay loads.

 

It might be a totally different story with the wider spread of a 12 bore, I don't know. Ended up with 15 pigeons picked up. Could've been maybe 30 if I'd been using proper cartridges - I've been told in the past that 7s are no good for pigeons, but I thought at short ranges it'd make no difference. My advice - use 6s!!

Have you patterned the gun to the rounds out at the distance you believed you were shooting at?

 

TEH

[sitsinhedges]

Wouldn't Winchester 8's be an English 7 anyway?

 

I stick to 6's for standard cartridges and even 5's for my subsonics for good solid kills at range

[fenboy]

I can perhaps see where you might blame a small shot size for wounding , but for missing ?? , surely that is down to your ability to put it in the right place.

 

I have shot many 1000s of pigeon with 7 1/2 s and just as many with 6s and I really cannot tell any difference in the amount that get wounded , if you put those clay loads in the right place at a sensible range then they will do the job fine.

[magman]

Yesterday I went out for a little decoying session with the 20 bore, I rarely do clays so I don't buy cartridges smaller than 6's, but I was given a few Eley 7s and Winchester 8s a while back, so put them into the bag with some Express steel 4s and Victory 6s.

 

Decoys were out at 35 yards, horseshoe pattern.

 

I had three birds coming in straight away and it looked pretty good. To cut a long story short, I am NEVER going to use shot smaller than 6 again on live quarry. I wounded or missed between 15-20 birds with the Eleys & Winchesters, before I took them out of the bag and stuck with the 6s & steel 4s, with which I got a clean right & left straight away and killed a few nice high birds.

Now, I would've said the two highest quality cartridge makers are Eley and Winchester, certainly for game. Not quite so convinced about their clay loads.

 

It might be a totally different story with the wider spread of a 12 bore, I don't know. Ended up with 15 pigeons picked up. Could've been maybe 30 if I'd been using proper cartridges - I've been told in the past that 7s are no good for pigeons, but I thought at short ranges it'd make no difference. My advice - use 6s!!

 

There lie's your problem IMHO if the birds come into the outside of your pattern there 40 yrds away before you lift the gun

Always try to keep mine to 25 yrds

[fieldwanderer]

I found similar years ago, even 6s are a little under powered IMHO - I stick to 5s now, no problems with anything; even crows. That's 28g, I find 32g even better (12guage).

[the crowman]

12g 28g 7/1/2 full choke no movers on the deck from me :)

and that's from my hatsan and my sp3 on trulock extended full full :)

Edited August 25, 2013 by the crowman

[matone]

I think the clue is in decoys 35 yds out ! Thats going to make for long shots imho.

[Lord Geordie]

I know a lad on the shoot I beat for last year, single handedly nearly beat the rest of the shoot with a 410 and shot bloody well with it. He was using #6. The load didn't have any bearing on his kill ratio! It was down to knowing his limitations.

 

I have used 32g #6 in the past and if I stick my decoys out at 20 yards then I can use home loaded 28g reclaimed shot and get brilliant results.

[motty]

Some have commented on some of the long shots i have taken on my Pigeon shooting videos that i have recently posted. Some of the kills were over 50 yards and the cartridges used were Kent velocity 28gm 7.5 and Rio 20 (28gm & almost Uk size 7).

This topic keeps coming up and it is a bit boring. I have said before how a mate of mine that used to use 5 shot, always had more runners than me. It's where you place the shot that counts!!!!

[pontbeck]

Some have commented on some of the long shots i have taken on my Pigeon shooting videos that i have recently posted. Some of the kills were over 50 yards and the cartridges used were Kent velocity 28gm 7.5 and Rio 20 (28gm & almost Uk size 7).

This topic keeps coming up and it is a bit boring. I have said before how a mate of mine that used to use 5 shot, always had more runners than me. It's where you place the shot that counts!!!!

100% correct

[RossEM]

You were using a mixture of 7 and 8 shot 20 bore cartridges, but weight load were they ?

 

All 28g I think

[dougall]

well you've answered your own question.No8 shot really is a clay size shot.

I find for birds decoying well,ie committed to coming in 7/7.5s work fine.But ones up the jacksie/roost/longer range then 5/6s better. I have a big box of mixed cartridges for pigeons and will use anything from 7.5s to 5s for pigeon.Summer decoying anything works.If I noticed 7.5s not killing regularly I would drop 'em,as you have found this for you in your gun you should too..no worries.

[Underdog]

So....how the dickens was 7&1/2s working for me out my muzzle loader then? And at 3/4oz loads....thats 21grammes for you phillistines lol.

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/258016-had-my-plenty/

I use to use Champion 8s on crows years ago!

I have had lots of clay loads fail! It's nowt to do with the shot size but everything to do with pattern and their speed and how you shoot them.

Some may need less lead(e) and others more.

Have you patterned them?

One of my guns hates Rio cartridges and another loves them in 6s. Sure glad I did not condemn number six shot based on that experiance!

35yds is a good way for decoyed birds, 25 or less is way more fun.

 

U.

[Cranfield]

You were using a mixture of 7 and 8 shot 20 bore cartridges, but weight load were they ?

 

 

 

All 28g I think

I often use 28gm No7 shot (although usually No6) in a 20bore Benelli semi auto with fixed half choke, without any problems of not clean kills.

Firstly make sure the birds are in range and then hit them properly.

 

A pattern plate session can accurately help you understand where your gun is shooting, but you don't learn much from one or two field trips.

[Guest cookoff013]

the big difference between "clay cartridges" and pigeon cartridges isnt just the shotsize.

as above the larger shotsize ie 6-5s even with minimal fps will still get to the target and do the damage its supposed to.

 

however there is a big variation of "clay cartridge" ie intercomp, fitasc, economy, club grade and cheap tat.

 

trying to shoot pigeons with standard club type clay loads isnt going to end well. first the shotsize can be variant from what its supposed to be. thats why they are cheap. low speed, unregulated shotsize etc.

the top club shells like fitasc or extreme type is a different ball game altogether.

 

there is a big difference between using these on pigeon.

http://www.hullcartridge.co.uk/sovereign.htm

http://www.lyalvaleexpress.com/world-cup-fitasc-28-grams

 

just cartridges lists these as 236 respectively. compare that to a pigeon load from both companys... 250 and 227.

 

why wouldnt you buy 32g #6s.

 

now i`m not saying that normal cheap clay cartridges are inadequate to the job. clearly some people do have success. some guys try to get away with 21gram 7.5s.

 

now, is the kicker, why dont these buy nobelsport 28gram #6 for pigeons and save £80 per 1000 over hot clay loads. they are about as cheap as sone poor quality clay loads.

 

the shotgun is such a versatile piece of equiptment, and shooters stick to one type of shell thats just cheap.

 

it does annoy me that shooters / new shooters dont even try shells that they are supposed to use. there is a pigeon on the box. use it for pigeon. any shell labelled as pigeon. use as pigeon.

i knew a guy who was tearing his hair out because shells cant kill anything. i found out he went through the FAC shotgun route because its taking him 4 shells to acually stop something.

i found out he refuses to shoot anything bigger than 1oz 7.5s at all game. thats rabbit, hare, fox,pigeon, and "other game".

 

i get slightly annoyed too at the stupidity of people too, guy buys a new shotgun, comes with 5 chokes. guy sells all the chokes to recoup some money that the gun company "screwed him out of" now he cant even put a pattern downrange.

 

most tthe time 32g #6 is adequate.

 

the shell companys price fix the shells and keep the #6 loads at a very high cost. they use the same components as clay loads.

it cost the shell manufacturers something like £3 in extra lead to produce a 32g load.

[Hamster]

Some have commented on some of the long shots i have taken on my Pigeon shooting videos that i have recently posted. Some of the kills were over 50 yards and the cartridges used were Kent velocity 28gm 7.5 and Rio 20 (28gm & almost Uk size 7).

This topic keeps coming up and it is a bit boring. I have said before how a mate of mine that used to use 5 shot, always had more runners than me. It's where you place the shot that counts!!!!

 

I too get more runners with 5 or 6's ! By choice would prefer 2.4m English 7's for pigeon all day long and would happily shoot 7.5's over 6's over decoys or even flighted birds. It's best not to overchoke with 7.5's though as obviously smacking them in the middle at 25 yards is not clever but at 40 yards there are way more pellets in the pattern with 7.5 compared to say 5 shot and despite people thinking the latter will bring down or kill outright with one or two pellets, this isn't the case in reality.