ATTN: David (BASC) - Durham medical Info proceedure

[phaedra1106]

Hi, having had to withdraw my autistic sons SGC application on the basis of a completely incorrect GPs letter we now have a full assessment from a psychiatrist showing he has no issues of any sort with aggression or violence.

 

Before submitting a new application or asking for a meeting with the FLM prior to doing so can you tell me what the position is with regard to Durhams insistence on having to submit a request (and a copy of the first page of his application) to his GP and pay for them to send their report to the firearms department?. I know it's not required by HO guidance but this is Durham we're talking about.

 

This seems completely pointless as his new GP has a. never met him and b. knows nothing about Aspergers Syndrome so is not qualified to make any sort of judgement on his character etc.

 

The link below is for the Durham Constabulary advisory, in it it also states that,

 

1. I authorise my Doctor(s) and Specialist(s) to release reports/medical information about my condition relevant to my fitness to hold a firearm and/or shotgun licence to Durham Constabulary both as part of this application process and at any time whilst I hold a firearm and/or shotgun licence. Such information may include details about my physical, social and psychological circumstances, including drug and alcohol use.

 

and

 

5. If granted a licence I authorise my GP to record this in my medical notes.

 

Here's the link, https://www.durham.police.uk/Information-and-advice/firearms-and-firearms-licensing/Documents/URGENT%20INFORMATION%20-%20ALL%20APPLICANTS.pdf

 

Also sent by email.

Edited October 11, 2013 by phaedra1106

[wymberley]

If tenacity had anything to do with it, they'd throw in an FAC as well!

 

Good luck.

[Guest cookoff013]

Hi, having had my autistic sons SGC application refused on the basis of a completely incorrect GPs letter we now have a full assessment from a psychiatrist showing he has no issues of any sort with aggression or violence.

 

Before submitting a new application or asking for a meeting with the FLM prior to doing so can you tell me what the position is with regard to Durhams insistence on having to submit a request (and a copy of the first page of his application) to his GP and pay for them to send their report to the firearms department?. I know it's not required by HO guidance but this is Durham we're talking about.

 

This seems completely pointless as his new GP has a. never met him and b. knows nothing about Aspergers Syndrome so is not qualified to make any sort of judgement on his character etc.

 

The link below is for the Durham Constabulary advisory, in it it also states that,

 

1. I authorise my Doctor(s) and Specialist(s) to release reports/medical information about my condition relevant to my fitness to hold a firearm and/or shotgun licence to Durham Constabulary both as part of this application process and at any time whilst I hold a firearm and/or shotgun licence. Such information may include details about my physical, social and psychological circumstances, including drug and alcohol use.

 

and

 

5. If granted a licence I authorise my GP to record this in my medical notes.

 

Here's the link, https://www.durham.police.uk/Information-and-advice/firearms-and-firearms-licensing/Documents/URGENT%20INFORMATION%20-%20ALL%20APPLICANTS.pdf

 

Also sent by email.

 

how do you know the GP doesnt know anything about A-S?

the gp hasnt met your son so cant make a judgement of his character anyway...

[saddler]

Spurious (illegal ?) documents, above & beyond the HO Guidance AND the Firearms Acts AND you have to foot the extra costs for THEIR pilot scheme?

 

Aye, right....

[Scully]

Hi, having had my autistic sons SGC application refused on the basis of a completely incorrect GPs letter we now have a full assessment from a psychiatrist showing he has no issues of any sort with aggression or violence.

 

Before submitting a new application or asking for a meeting with the FLM prior to doing so can you tell me what the position is with regard to Durhams insistence on having to submit a request (and a copy of the first page of his application) to his GP and pay for them to send their report to the firearms department?. I know it's not required by HO guidance but this is Durham we're talking about.

 

This seems completely pointless as his new GP has a. never met him and b. knows nothing about Aspergers Syndrome so is not qualified to make any sort of judgement on his character etc.

 

The link below is for the Durham Constabulary advisory, in it it also states that,

 

1. I authorise my Doctor(s) and Specialist(s) to release reports/medical information about my condition relevant to my fitness to hold a firearm and/or shotgun licence to Durham Constabulary both as part of this application process and at any time whilst I hold a firearm and/or shotgun licence. Such information may include details about my physical, social and psychological circumstances, including drug and alcohol use.

 

and

 

5. If granted a licence I authorise my GP to record this in my medical notes.

 

Here's the link, https://www.durham.police.uk/Information-and-advice/firearms-and-firearms-licensing/Documents/URGENT%20INFORMATION%20-%20ALL%20APPLICANTS.pdf

 

Also sent by email.

This is absolutely disgusting in my opinion and is becoming the norm,and have no idea if our shooting organisations are opposing this or not(and unless its a legal requirement then instructions as for mass non-compliance would be nice)but as I don't know the legitimacy of this requirement then I'm afraid I cannot help,but you have my complete admiration in your determination to fight the system in the face of all the obstacles I know you are having to overcome in order to have your son regarded as a suitable person to hold SGC.

Don't let the ******** grind you down.

[Davyo]

Mate has just been charged £80 by his GP to complete these forms £40 for the SGC & £40 for his FAC.

[Scully]

Mate has just been charged £80 by his GP to complete these forms £40 for the SGC & £40 for his FAC.

The bloke I know who had to undergo DSC1 I mentioned on another thread as a condition of his grant also had a GP's letter to pay for as part of his application package.Have no idea of charges however.

[CharlieT]

I will be interested to read the BASC response, particularly bearing in mind guidance notes 10.25 - 10.30.

 

The fact that Durham insist that the applicant pays GP/specialist fees seems to me to indicate that a medical report will become part of the general application process.

 

I was under the impression that the cost for such reports must be met by the police.

[phaedra1106]

 

how do you know the GP doesnt know anything about A-S?

the gp hasnt met your son so cant make a judgement of his character anyway...

 

I specifically asked at every surgery in the area when we moved here, not one of them could offer a GP with any experience of dealing with Autistic Spectrum Disorders.

 

And I agree, I can't see how he could offer any opinion having never met him but then again he's not supposed to do that, only supply any medical facts, mind you, that didn't stop his previous GP (who had only seen him twice for an ingrowing toenail when he was in the juniors) saying he shouldn't be allowed to shoot!.

Edited October 11, 2013 by phaedra1106

[Lord Geordie]

Unfortunately there is a generalisation of higher function, or the Autistic Spectrum! I know My Son would not be suitable as a SGC - FAC holder, due to inward aggression, self harming etc.

 

But I also know a few others who have Aspergers, who I would say are better candidates than some of the SGC holders I have seen! My Girlfriends son has Aspergers and is the most polite, calm, intelligent person you would ever meet.

 

As you say too many people are ill informed about the ASD and make a general decision, when quite clearly the word SPECTRUM means a vast array.

 

Thats like!

 

black and white

good and bad

up and down

wrong and right

yes and no

 

all complete opposite ends of the scale!

 

I feel your Doctor, "having not met, nor assessed your Son's diagnosis" should not be casting aspursions!

 

While he MAY think he is doing the right thing, it is quite clearly wrong to write your Son off until he is in posession of all the facts.

 

I hope you manage to get this cleared up soon!

 

ATB

Edited October 11, 2013 by Lord Geordie

[Luckyshot]

I will be interested to read the BASC response, particularly bearing in mind guidance notes 10.25 - 10.30.

 

The fact that Durham insist that the applicant pays GP/specialist fees seems to me to indicate that a medical report will become part of the general application process.

 

I was under the impression that the cost for such reports must be met by the police.

 

BASC are supposedly recommending that you do not fill this form in as it is not required by law. My renewal is in at the minute with Durham and when I got this sheet my doctor refused to do it as according to him, that's not part of our job. My renewal is going through ok without it.

[phaedra1106]

The GP was from our previous surgery, we had a meeting with the head of the surgery before applying and he said there was no reason he could see why it would be a problem.

 

After applying we eventually found another GP had written the letter to Plod and apart from getting several things completely wrong also wrote "I feel that it would not be safe to grant XXXXX a certificate at this moment in time. I hope you find this information useful" at the end of the letter!.

 

 

Thanks Luckshot, that's good to know

Edited October 11, 2013 by phaedra1106

[CharlieT]

 

BASC are supposedly recommending that you do not fill this form in as it is not required by law. My renewal is in at the minute with Durham and when I got this sheet my doctor refused to do it as according to him, that's not part of our job. My renewal is going through ok without it.

 

Thanks for this. Looks positive.

[grasshopper]

Cousin has just this morning had to pay £11 for his doctor to sign the form...this is 2 days after his license expired due to them losing the 1st form.

When he asked why his new Cert wasn't ready,all he was told repeatedly was,it takes 90days.He pointed out his forms where in 2 days after receiving them..again 90days was mentioned.So he asked why don't you send them out 120days before expiry?

Her response...it's not upto us to remind you of renewals.

 

Once he told them he would be taking it further because of their incompetence (had the same with his shotgun renewal),his licence is now in the post...BEFORE THE SAID MEDICAL FORM HAS REACHED THEM!!

 

They still have a way to go at DURHAM that's for sure.

[jimmyb79]

I recently visited my GP in Kent and whilst sat there noticed that there was a note on my computer record regarding firearms and Kent Police. I asked what it was and he told me that they had been approached by Kent Police regarding my FAC application asking for them to confirm my medical history. Also included on the notes was the letter with which they responded which said that they would not release any such information as that was against the advice of the General Medical Council and would refuse any future requests until the GMC changed their advice...

[Luckyshot]

 

Thanks for this. Looks positive.

 

BASC's thoughts http://www.basc.org.uk/en/test-section/document.cfm/prid/FE6E38D5-7076-4B28-A804E49614C09CAE

[David BASC]

It’s a voluntary scheme, the Chief Constable has said so, maybe this has not filtered down to firearms licencing???

 

 

If may member has been asked or de facto forced to pay for a medical check that NOT required under the Act or Guidance please get in touch with you name and membership number and we will take this up with the constabulary.

 

 

David

[CharlieT]

 

BASC's thoughts http://www.basc.org.uk/en/test-section/document.cfm/prid/FE6E38D5-7076-4B28-A804E49614C09CAE

 

Great, thanks for the link.

It’s a voluntary scheme, the Chief Constable has said so, maybe this has not filtered down to firearms licencing

 

 

If may member has been asked or de facto forced to pay for a medical check that NOT required under the Act or Guidance please get in touch with you name and membership number and we will take this up with the constabulary.

 

 

David

 

Thank you David, a most positive reply.

[David BASC]

No problem, here to try and help

 

David

[Sprackles]

I recently visited my GP in Kent and whilst sat there noticed that there was a note on my computer record regarding firearms and Kent Police. I asked what it was and he told me that they had been approached by Kent Police regarding my FAC application asking for them to confirm my medical history. Also included on the notes was the letter with which they responded which said that they would not release any such information as that was against the advice of the General Medical Council and would refuse any future requests until the GMC changed their advice...

 

I have mentioned this in the past also.

Whilst having a blood test done, my files were pulled up on screen and at the top of my notes it stated 'Has Shotgun Certificate'

I asked why it was there and all the nurse said was it was Law.....I disputed that but what can you do.

Anyway...still have my SGC and recently been granted FAC but it still raises issues of what exactly should be shared information wise.

I really don't have any major gripe with it except if we keep allowing non standard practices to be accepted, at some point they will become the norm.

[phaedra1106]

Doesn't say anything about being voluntary on their web site, in fact page 3 of the form tries to make it look very much the opposite,

 

"Applicant Declaration and Consent
This section MUST be filled in and must NOT be altered in any way.
Please read the following important information carefully then sign to confirm the statements below."

[Sprackles]

Doesn't say anything about being voluntary on their web site, in fact page 3 of the form tries to make it look very much the opposite,

 

"Applicant Declaration and Consent

This section MUST be filled in and must NOT be altered in any way.

Please read the following important information carefully then sign to confirm the statements below."

Yet in the opening statement it says....

 

 

In support of this pilot, all applicants are requested to submit a copy of the front page of their completed Firearms and / or Shotgun application form to their GP, along with the attached medical consent form.

[sitsinhedges]

It’s a voluntary scheme, the Chief Constable has said so, maybe this has not filtered down to firearms licencing???

 

 

If may member has been asked or de facto forced to pay for a medical check that NOT required under the Act or Guidance please get in touch with you name and membership number and we will take this up with the constabulary.

 

 

David

 

Thing is that it's not really voluntary for those unlucky enough to not be advised so is it? Why would anyone pay to provide any such information voluntarily unless they are being coerced and bullied to do so by the implied threat of it affecting your application if you don't comply with these demands?

[matone]

One thing is certain ,Durham are giving Licence holders a hard time at renewal despite their problems

being very much `in house`.

Surely someone of higher authority can be brought in by our representative organisations.

Edited October 11, 2013 by matone

[paul2012]

I thought your gp can only provide factual details of your medical history and any opinion given by them will not be considered by the police.

 

I don't think anyone should have to pay your gp anything to fill in a form when the police should a. Pay for them to do it and b. Approach the gp directly asking for factual details.

 

Just my two cents and hope you can get it sorted,

 

Paul