sable Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) i am a fabricator and coded welder to do repair on a broken trailer or anything else needs the right preperation and the right welding technic was it mig mag tig are mma you said it was done by someone on site where they qualified to work on this kind of repair are was they (ive welded cars at home kind of welder) did they use 220 or 400 volts it all makes a differance in other words its not safe to be done by any tom **** are **** Edited November 1, 2013 by sable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I have removed a couple of posts. Lets have less of the personal insults please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodo123 Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 If it was me I probably would have towed it, at about 30mph max. You are well within your rights to refuse to do something you deem unsafe, then typically a risk assessment is carried out and nessecery precautions put in place. If you point blank refused giving no reason then I could understand why your boss would be ******. I'm not sure on the regulations regarding repair to towing equipment but I'd have thought if it's been repaired it's in effect non-standard, therefore maybe requiring some sort of test? I know with lifting equipment it has to be periodically inspected etc I'm not sure if this may fall under the same regs?. If in doubt contact vosa. If they come back with it's totally fine then apology to the boss and suck it up. He cannot give you a warning or any form of disciplinary for this. Get the union involved if he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zx10mike Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 i would rather have a lad working for me that thinks before he does things.at the end of the day your not trained to inspect chippers and if my chipper came off i would be liable not my lad driving the truck.if you dont know much about welding and can't look and see if your happy with it your kind of between a rock and a hard place.the good news is employees have loads of rights these days,as long as you have voiced your concerns and are not just being awkward what is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) When you've talked to your supervisor (and maybe others), and you still have reason to believe that the work you have been asked to do may endanger your safety or the safety of those around you, you have the right under the Occupational Health and Safety Act to refuse to perform the work. There are times when the supervisor might not agree with you, doesn't take what you're saying seriously or politely ignores you. If the problem isn't properly addressed and you still feel you could be injured say "NO" to the work. You have the legal right to refuse unsafe work. Tell your supervisor that you believe that the situation is not safe, and that you will not continue the work until the situation is made right. If necessary, let them know that you are exercising your right under the Occupational Health and Safety Act to refuse work. Make sure there's no doubt that it's not a discussion or a complaint investigation, but that you're refusing to perform the work until they do something about your concerns. At this point your boss or supervisor may not agree with you, but once you have "refused to work" under the Act, you can't be ordered or forced to do the work and you can't be disciplined for refusing the unsafe work. This is a serious thing to do and should not be done lightly or be a routine method of solving problems. However, you should not be afraid to exercise your rights when you really think you or your co-workers could be in danger.. Also there is nothing wrong with asking for advice that's what forums are all about unfortunately as with all walks of life there are the few that lower the tone, and there is one of them posting on your thread just ignore them there not even worth a second of yours or anybody else's time, we all can see who this one is on here.... Edited November 1, 2013 by tigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfiddler Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Illegal to tow anything without a breakaway chain, regards the disciplinary, accept nothing & make sure you have a witness with you, guaranteed your boss will have 1. If things get heated ask to postpone the meeting & seek legal advise from citizens advise or acass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBW Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Thanks again folks a lot to think about here, if the disciplinary goes ahead I will have my union rep with me, however the boss it a Richard head and I am sure he is just trying to make me back down over threat of disciplinary, To some of the other replays slating me for having to ask...... I am not a qualified mechanic I have no knowledge whatsoever of welding and wether this is a good job or not, I took the course of action I thought at the time was the right thin to do, the reason I asked on here was because there is a wide skill base here and guys who may know more than me about this situation from welders to people who work with chippers and know more than me about them I made a decision on what I thought was best at the time but with my bosses reaction started to doubt myself Not sure if this helps anyone in the know but it's some sort of electric welder that was used I think it may be called a spot welder but I'm not sure, the guy who welded the towing bar is just a jack of all trades type bloke he is not qualified as far as I am aware. Thank you to all the people who have have helpful answers so far even the lad who seems to be getting stick for suggesting a disclaimer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 A breakaway cable only applies the brakes if trailor becomes detached from the towing vechicle,so that it comes to a standstill quicker. Your boss sounds like a #### and a poor manager of people. Not necessarily so, it depends on the weight of the trailor If its over 750 kg it should be braked in which case you are right. The cable is designed to apply the breaking mechanism and then sever. On un breaked trailers it is a secondary coupling in case the main coupling fails. It is a legal requirement to have a secondary safety coupling on an un breaked trailor If the chipper is less than 750 kg and has no secondary cable then its illegal and you are perfectly correct in refusing to take it out whether the primary coupling has been repaired or not. You cannot be instructed by your employer to break the law and if he did subsequently instigate disciplinary action you would have a water tight case. The bloke sounds like he shouldn't be in a position of authority.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorismyhero Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 2 points H&S at work act .....YOU are responsible for your health and safety, AND THAT OF OTHERS. all trailers, if not braked and fitted with a breakaway cable MUST have a safety chain fitted.....even your 4 foot garden trailer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzypigeon Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Health and safety at work act 1974, you the employee are accountable by your act and omissions so by not acting the way you have you would be held accountable by the health and safety executive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) You shouldn't be victimised for what appears to fall under the heading 'protective disclosure' (ie whistle blowing) Get yourself to an employment lawyer and start looking for a new job. I'd get onto the Vosa boys - they are very anal about this stuff Edited November 1, 2013 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnerbob Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 In my opinion you did the right thing in not taking on the road something you felt to be unsafe. As said, the driver is responsible. I have personally seen a large trailer break free....it is a terrifying sight, nobody hurt but property and trailer severely damaged. Stand your ground.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Unbraked trailers must have a stout secondary coupling, such as a chain, which is connected securely to the towing vehicle when it is being towed. The secondary coupling must be tight enough to prevent the trailer's tow hitch from hitting the ground if the vehicle becomes uncoupled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Don't know about welding but the construction and use regulations governing such things are rather comprehensive and open to some, not much but some interprétation that may assist, they also assist if you can't sleep. Personally if I wasn't happy I woukdnt take it out, tell the boss to poke it, it's not his consciouse if it goes wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I would ask for a copy of the repair log stating that the repair has been done to the original specifications. If the welder won't supply it how can you be expected to tow it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 As you mentioned union rep, do you work for a public body, large employer? Have formal H&S documents? If so there should be a risk assement on towing of plant you'll need to read it and see how it effects your decision, if there isn't a policy there should be as well as a repair and maintenance log for all plant and vehicles with regular inspections and signatures of responsible/competent person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 MBW expect to get some doo doo from work but hang in there, if you loose your job through this by your wally gaffer you stand a very very good chance of winning a case for unfair dismissal, from the information you are giving he's no legs to stand on, breaking various codes of practice re H&S regs. You certainly don't mess with those regs and expect to be let off lightly. Just completed a NEBOSH and it's frightening as a supervisor, further up the ladder its worse if you don't comply with the acts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 good for you, if you're not sure stop and request validation, you did the right thing 100% you need to be confident that the repair will be fit for purpose and until you are i don't see a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Was once threatened with the sack on the spot as I refused to take out an artic trailer that had an expired MOT and known defects, I took the trailer out and Drove it to the local VOSA test centre, left it there and caught the train home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) HDAV has raised one of the most important points. What is the size of the company? If it is small - life might become hard. If it is a large company - chances are the OP will get more support from the company. Edited November 2, 2013 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terence Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Unbraked trailers must have a stout secondary coupling, such as a chain, which is connected securely to the towing vehicle when it is being towed. The secondary coupling must be tight enough to prevent the trailer's tow hitch from hitting the ground if the vehicle becomes uncoupled. If this is correct how can you buy new trailer under 750 kg that as no chain or breakaway cable fitted Unbraked trailers must have a stout secondary coupling, such as a chain, which is connected securely to the towing vehicle when it is being towed. The secondary coupling must be tight enough to prevent the trailer's tow hitch from hitting the ground if the vehicle becomes uncoupled. If this is correct how can you buy new trailer under 750 kg that as no chain or breakaway cable fitted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBW Posted November 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Have done some research into health and safety act, and thought long and hard about the situation and there is no doubt in my mind I have done the right thing to refuse to take the chipper out. Have got the mrs typing up a letter highlighting my concerns and reason for refusing to go out with it, a copy will be given to gaffer and copy to his bosses and the health and safety officer We'll see what Monday morning brings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) If this is correct how can you buy new trailer under 750 kg that as no chain or breakaway cable fitted If this is correct how can you buy new trailer under 750 kg that as no chain or breakaway cable fitted Look here at point F http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/trailers/brakes.aspx Edited November 3, 2013 by tigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Good Luck on Monday - you are the one who did the right thing and irrespective of what happens he would be a fool to consider sacking you as the firm would be screwed by H&S and you would be a winner of any unfair dismissal action you took. When business times are hard things get sloppy. This level of safety failure is potentially fatal. Keep records as you are doing and get a photo of the trailer hitched, if you can without detection. Good moral stand, I support what you are doing and can see only a world of pain for your employer if they try and sack you. Suggest (in extremis) that if you had taken it out assuming it was safe and that company processes were effective that protected against this, then almost certainly if a fatality had occurred, the company directors would potentially be facing corporate manslaughter charges, and gaol. Your motives for doing what you did are both to protect the company and yourself. I believe nothing can stop a person who knows they are right and keeps pushing forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Good Luck on Monday - you are the one who did the right thing and irrespective of what happens he would be a fool to consider sacking you as the firm would be screwed by H&S and you would be a winner of any unfair dismissal action you took. When business times are hard things get sloppy. This level of safety failure is potentially fatal.Keep records as you are doing and get a photo of the trailer hitched, if you can without detection.Good moral stand, I support what you are doing and can see only a world of pain for your employer if they try and sack you.Suggest (in extremis) that if you had taken it out assuming it was safe and that company processes were effective that protected against this, then almost certainly if a fatality had occurred, the company directors would potentially be facing corporate manslaughter charges, and gaol. Your motives for doing what you did are both to protect the company and yourself.I believe nothing can stop a person who knows they are right and keeps pushing forward. Well said that man!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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