marc020 Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 Hi all,was just wondering what the smallest calibre for fox would be,I'm just applying for my fac for air,.17, I only shoot rabbit and now fox hopefully,was thinking 22.250 or 223,I thought 243 but I presume that is more towards deer stalking which I don't do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tis1979 Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 Depends what county you ask in mate, I'm in Essex and minimum is .223 and its a cracking round for Fox. Good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masmiffy Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 (edited) Poss the 'smallest' you would get is 22 Hornet as a dedicated fox rifle. 17HMR will do the trick as will the 22 rimmy in the right circumstances however most FEO would say a centrefire for fox. Edited December 8, 2013 by masmiffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remmy1100 Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 both the 223 and 22.250 are both excellent fox rounds and down to personal preference ... but its down to what your firearms dept is willing to grant you and what the land you intend to shoot on is passed for and your experence of firearms . i personally use 223 but also take foxs out to 100yds with my 17 hmr .you may put in for 22,250 and your feo may not be willing but happy to give you 223. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 A .223 will be ample for fox control. The .22-250 is faster and better, but I don't think you may get that granted on a first time application. Stick with the .223 and you will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Ask for what you need, if all your foxes are 50 yards away a rimfire will be fine, and acceptable for fox under the new Guide. If they are all at distance you need something bigger! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Dont forget a .17 hornet which is a centrefire and fox acceptable up to 200 yds. Fast and flat trajectory. Also, being relatively cheap rounds (when reloaded) is a very good long range bunny gun. Maybe all you need to carry ? Bullet weight is counteracted by MV - about 3600ft /sec. Worth a test fire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 .22 Hornet is about the smallest true foxer, the smaller stuff are in the main opertunist or specialist short range foxers for urban environments etc.. The Hornet will also take rabbits without ruining them (unlike the bigger cf cals), its also the easiest to moderate burning around half the powder of a .222 / .223. Factory ammo is genrally in the 2500-2700 mark with a 45 grn bullet, handloaded the same will do around 2900 fps. A Hornet zeroed at around 125-130 yds will be point and shoot as regards trajectory to around 150-160 depending on ammo and set up (that is about as far as most normally shoot foxes with a 22-250 or .243 with the lamp BTW) A skilled shooter can easy get the job done at 200 yards and even a tad further if conditions are favourable What the .22 Hornet isn't about is sitting out at first light covering big open areas, though to be fair most who have a bigger gun cant master the skills required to make such long shots with certainty either in my experience. The hornet is a very good longer range Rabbit gun and ideal on Hares / crows etc. There is as such no need for a HMR, let me say if I was you I should get a .22 lr a modestly powered FAC air and a hornet, if you do in future want a longer range fox/ general all deer gun get a .243 or 6.5mm if the authorities allow it. If you want a fox dedicated rifle which will only be for foxing and longer range crow shooting etc. There is no need to go any bigger than .223 rem, many own more powerful rifles who cannot use the extra range due to either their skill levels or size of the fields, if you cant get them at 300 yds with a .223 having a 22-250 or .243 simply wont help any Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I have "Fox" on all my rifles .22lr, .17M2, .22WMR, .17HMR, .222, .243, the .270 and 300WM have them by default under the way Police Scotland condition larger cartridges, I wouldn't hesitate taking a fox if it presented itself whilst out stalking most of the foxes I shoot are under 50yds rarely over 150-175yds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 IMHO Any centre fire for fox .222 / .223 are idea and common place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Depends on range I got a .22 hornet as I wanted a long range rabbit/shorter range fox gun and it's perfect for me, nice and quiet compared to other cf's yet still more than enough grunt for my needs. If I get more land I'll add a .223 to the locker but happy with .22lr and hornet for everything at the minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat g Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 both the 223 and 22.250 are both excellent fox rounds and down to personal preference ... but its down to what your firearms dept is willing to grant you and what the land you intend to shoot on is passed for and your experence of firearms . i personally use 223 but also take foxs out to 100yds with my 17 hmr .you may put in for 22,250 and your feo may not be willing but happy to give you 223. Your licensing authority is Northumbria, i come under the same force as well. It is my understanding that Northumbria won't condition HMR for Fox. Am i correct on this? Obviously they must now allow it as you say you are using your HMR. Just out of interest as sometimes the HMR would be useful in situations where i could'nt use the 243. We know the HMR is capable if ranges are kept to within 100 yards. ATB, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapid basher Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I got granted a 17hmr for fox about a year go Avon and somerset but now just been granted a243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 .22 Hornet is about the smallest true foxer, the smaller stuff are in the main opertunist or specialist short range foxers for urban environments etc.. The Hornet will also take rabbits without ruining them (unlike the bigger cf cals), its also the easiest to moderate burning around half the powder of a .222 / .223. Factory ammo is genrally in the 2500-2700 mark with a 45 grn bullet, handloaded the same will do around 2900 fps. A Hornet zeroed at around 125-130 yds will be point and shoot as regards trajectory to around 150-160 depending on ammo and set up (that is about as far as most normally shoot foxes with a 22-250 or .243 with the lamp BTW) A skilled shooter can easy get the job done at 200 yards and even a tad further if conditions are favourable What the .22 Hornet isn't about is sitting out at first light covering big open areas, though to be fair most who have a bigger gun cant master the skills required to make such long shots with certainty either in my experience. The hornet is a very good longer range Rabbit gun and ideal on Hares / crows etc. There is as such no need for a HMR, let me say if I was you I should get a .22 lr a modestly powered FAC air and a hornet, if you do in future want a longer range fox/ general all deer gun get a .243 or 6.5mm if the authorities allow it. If you want a fox dedicated rifle which will only be for foxing and longer range crow shooting etc. There is no need to go any bigger than .223 rem, many own more powerful rifles who cannot use the extra range due to either their skill levels or size of the fields, if you cant get them at 300 yds with a .223 having a 22-250 or .243 simply wont help any .204 Ruger??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccles Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 A 223 is ideal for foxing, Thats what i use no need for anything bigger. I have shot loads with a 222 + 223 and every one has been stone dead. Its zeroed at 200 yards 1 inch high a 100y so just point and shoot. I will never buy any bigger calibre for foxing. atb Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 The only time bigger is better is with difficult foxes. Ones you work really hard for and are doing severe damage and you have to take the only shot on offer. A .243 will stop them smaller and you might have a bit of a look the same as if you pull the shot slightly. If you have no interest in deer then a .223 is ideal but I'd never buy a hornet as a dedicated fox gun as it just isn't one. Smallest caliber wise you are into 20 and 17 calibers which vary in results but lots depend how you shoot, close from high seats most will do but off a truck on arable land you do want something with some legs to it. On here remember some shoot the odd fox some shoot a lot working out who is who is the crucial bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Any .22 CF round is plenty enough for Fox Control! Apply for .222,.223 or .22-250 and see what your FEO says is my advice. I use my .22-250 to great effect on Fox and that's my choice of calibre. ATVB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 17 hornet when it gets here fully as some forces don't like the HMR. Or .20 TAC until then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Hi all,was just wondering what the smallest calibre for fox would be,I'm just applying for my fac for air,.17, I only shoot rabbit and now fox hopefully,was thinking 22.250 or 223,I thought 243 but I presume that is more towards deer stalking which I don't do. I went for a .243 and use it a lot on foxes also a few deer. Any thing bigger then I would have struggled to get it for foxes and any smaller then I would not been able to shoot the larger deer on my ground. My best advice is peoples shooting tends to evolve rather than stand still...what you shoot this year will change the year after. TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 .204 Ruger??? In muzzle energy no not by a long way, .17 is smaller than .20 so I am not sure which angle but either way incorrect. .20 Ruger is based on the old .222 mag case and is about as big as small centre fires get (based on case and action size required) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) The only time bigger is better is with difficult foxes. Ones you work really hard for and are doing severe damage and you have to take the only shot on offer. A .243 will stop them smaller and you might have a bit of a look the same as if you pull the shot slightly. If you have no interest in deer then a .223 is ideal but I'd never buy a hornet as a dedicated fox gun as it just isn't one. Smallest caliber wise you are into 20 and 17 calibers which vary in results but lots depend how you shoot, close from high seats most will do but off a truck on arable land you do want something with some legs to it. On here remember some shoot the odd fox some shoot a lot working out who is who is the crucial bit. You know what we all have are preferences and different circumstances, I have both .22 Hornet and .243 win both carry the same dedicated fox classification (night or day etc) so I have no legal restictions on use ( I have had an open cert for very many years). Both have their uses and its very, very clear cut when to use one or the other. To say a rifle that produces 6-700 ftlb at the muzzle and trajectory wise can be point and shoot to 160 yds is not worth bothering about for foxing shows only ignorance "aint a true foxer" is frankly Hillarious! Run a pole and I will bet over 95% of foxes shot by PW members are sub 150 yds so why is more required is the energy not enough? After all you have extolled the virtues of the HMR as a foxer many times on here and that's what 240 ft lb. Ok so when I saw the a fox at 380yds a few week ago resting on the bank outside my side field I didn't go back in the house for the Hornet LOL but don't forget some people shoot fields that are only 150 yds long! Anyone can compare a .22 Hornet and 45 grn bullet at 2900 fps and a 55 grn bullet from a .223 rem at 3300 fps etc using optimum MPR calcs and see the difference these days. The choice is theirs alone to make, to belittle their choice is quite rude and out of place. IMO the only wrong thing would be to have a .22 Hornet, .223 rem and .243 win because you really thought you needed them all, if you just like buying guns fair enough been there with a safe full myself in the past! Just like most things gun related there are crossovers in use for me PERSONALLY .22 Hornet and .243 win means no real cross over occurs. Compare a .20 Ruger with a .243 win and for fox and vermin there is actually quite a cross over ballistically out to 300yards or so- yet many think that's a little gun! its not the volume of the bang or the bullet size its if and were you hit the fox and if indeed you do [quote name="kent" post="2370445" timestamp="1386668809 Edited December 10, 2013 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 The 22 Hornet figures above detailed as 6 to 700 ftlb are for factory loads and the 45grn at 2900fps - a little different at 840 ftlb - are home loads just in case anyone got confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tis1979 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Depends what county you ask in mate, I'm in Essex and minimum is .223 and its a cracking round for Fox. Good luck with it. I meant .22 cf is minimum for fox in Essex not specifically the .223. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 The 22 Hornet figures above detailed as 6 to 700 ftlb are for factory loads and the 45grn at 2900fps - a little different at 840 ftlb - are home loads just in case anyone got confused. I sort of knew what would happen if It was shown with anything but the lower figure on the energy To be fair 35 V-max factory leaves the muzzle at 3050 fps so I think on balance.............. Just sit back and wait for the .223 rem that's doing 4000 fps now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 devon and cornwall allow .17HMR for fox. however, they do generally advise only sensible ranges. make of that what you will... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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