Should Scotland keep the pound?

[TDRsniper]

There are very few occasions when you get "all party" support coming from Westminster on any issue (e.g. Scotland can't keep Sterling) so when you do get it you know there is genuine concern about how this issue is going to pan out.

The Scottish (half of my bloodline) are a fiercely proud and patriotic people and I'm told that there has been a swing in the last couple of weeks towards independence, regardless of facts, figures, truths, lies and statistics this vote will be based upon emotion and not sanity, if a country wants independence it should be negotiated over many years and not rushed through as part of a vote winning policy by any party.

The truth is that UK plc can ill afford to go through this very costly and complicated issue at the moment and neither England or Scotland will come out of this in a better place.

It will be what it will be and any debates (on here or anywhere else) should be conducted without the use of racial stereotypes on either side, from what I've seen here and elsewhere I fear that won't be the case and "we're all doomed"

Edited February 14, 2014 by TDRsniper

[aris]

There is a group - I forget what they're called - of Right wing Scottish separatists who want a truly independent Scotland, with its own currency, free of the EU, with a highly competitive, low spending/small state, low tax economy re-centred around technology rather than dwindling oil reserves. A sort of Nordic Hong-Kong, anathema to Salmond's national socialists. They stand no chance of success because, despite Scots being essentially a conservatively minded people, the nation remains inexplicably wedded to discredited high spending, centralised, top-down socialist statism. Why is this? And its not a sarcastic question, I genuinely want to know. With a real chance of winning a secession referendum it seems a spectacularly wasted opportunity.

 

If this were in any way realistically possible, I would move to Scotland.

Edited February 14, 2014 by aris

[henry d]

There is a group - I forget what they're called - of Right wing Scottish separatists who want a truly independent Scotland, with its own currency, free of the EU, with a highly competitive, low spending/small state, low tax economy re-centred around technology rather than dwindling oil reserves. A sort of Nordic Hong-Kong, anathema to Salmond's national socialists. They stand no chance of success because, despite Scots being essentially a conservatively minded people, the nation remains inexplicably wedded to discredited high spending, centralised, top-down socialist statism. Why is this? And its not a sarcastic question, I genuinely want to know. With a real chance of winning a secession referendum it seems a spectacularly wasted opportunity.

 

 

Trouble is, the Scots voted in the BNP SNP, with Salmon at the head, whose manifesto was in reality based solely around this vote.

 

It's too late now to complain about the tone of the debate - that was set by the SNP's rabid anti-English stance - or the lack of content. < That is your answer Gimlet

 

 

Finally, if the building of the Scottish Parliament building is an omen for Scottish independence, I suggest you all flee down South now, before the border closes and your trapped up there! It will take about 2-3 years to do IF the vote is yes, so I have plenty time to return.

 

A lot of people have gotten angry about the whole £stirling£ debate and are now wanting to vote yes instead, so it shows how important it is.

[islandgun]

 

If this were in any was realistically possible, I would move to Scotland.

better be quick before the house prices go up

[Blunderbust]

Gimlet, i couldn't agree more, we have allowed conjecture and rhetoric around the Barnett formula to seep into our public conscience and it has started to build an ever widening divide between the Scot's and English. At least between those who can't be bothered to look beyond stupid prejudices and actually try and gain an understanding.

 

It annoys me intensely that a lot of Scottish people have a big chip on their shoulder, we don't need to be the wee man who is down at heel and a self imposed supplicant to our southern neighbours. Equally i get just as annoyed with the arrogance/ignorance displayed by the minority of English folk that believe population size infers some sort of greater value.

 

Some folk have mentioned the Scot's booing the English football and rugby teams; when that is simple sporting rivalry that is fine, no worse than Liverpool fans booing at Man U, or fans of every other English team booing Man U for that matter. Booing the national anthem i think is incredibly disrespectful, regardless of the nation. Don't fool yourselves this is unique to the Scot's though, it is reciprocated in equal measure.

 

It is really sad that a muppet like Salmond can cause bitter resentment between the ordinary people of Scotland and England. I think that is why the majority of Scot's can't stand him either.

 

I agree 100%

[Lord Geordie]

I for one am saddened to see the bickering about this issue! Let's not forget, Scotland! And it's people are our brothers and sisters!

 

Name calling, Slander, Bitterness and down right rudeness should have NO place in this debate!

 

If Scotland truely wish to go it alone! Then they should have that right! As has been said! Let them keep the Scottish POUND! If the BOE wishes to then remove any backing from the current arrangement! And let the scottish pound be regulated by Scotland only then fair enough!

 

Think of it as your child leaving home! They want their own place, independance and their own money.

 

If it all goes wrong! Do you turn your back on your children? NO!

 

Let them have their independance, and see how they manage! But DON'T turn our backs

Edited February 14, 2014 by Lord Geordie

[kent]

Face it Salmon and his cronies want power and will never get it in a UNITED Kingdom. There is actually no issue with Scotland having the pound just it having any control over it or the rates of interest. That's fair enough and why all three UK wide parties agree. How the heck can you be independent yet have any say in another countries currency? How can you use it and have control over your own rates of borrowing? This has been the single Biggest issue in Europe and the reason for most of its current issues, my thoughts are we should have cut loose from all euro zone rubbish rather than prop up the Euro and the likes of the fake Greek economy.

Yes, I fully expect that London will not prop up the Scottish jobs market, the welfare state and THIER economy- independence means exactly as it implies you don't get to pick and choose. If the Bank of England decides the Scottish lending rate / risk is 20% like it or lump it. If Salmon and his cronies were serious about being fully independent they wouldn't even ask, its just an indicator of lack of real conviction. If Scotland wants to charge more for its own resources then fine. if whisky goes up there is always Canadian and the Arabs still sell us most of the oil we use, fishing is owned by the French and Spanish and they get to have their own Military spend but also their own wage bill, national health etc.

Edited February 14, 2014 by kent

[Dekers]

I for one am saddened to see the bickering about this issue! Let's not forget, Scotland! And it's people are our brothers and sisters!

 

Name calling, Slander, Bitterness and down right rudeness should have NO place in this debate!

 

If Scotland truely wish to go it alone! Then they should have that right! As has been said! Let them keep the Scottish POUND! If the BOE wishes to then remove any backing from the current arrangement! And let the scottish pound be regulated by Scotland only then fair enough!

 

Think of it as your child leaving home! They want their own place, independance and their own money.

 

If it all goes wrong! Do you turn your back on your children? NO!

 

Let them have their independance, and see how they manage! But DON'T turn our backs

 

But it isn't my child.

[kdubya]

I for one am saddened to see the bickering about this issue! Let's not forget, Scotland! And it's people are our brothers and sisters!

 

Name calling, Slander, Bitterness and down right rudeness should have NO place in this debate!

 

If Scotland truely wish to go it alone! Then they should have that right! As has been said! Let them keep the Scottish POUND! If the BOE wishes to then remove any backing from the current arrangement! And let the scottish pound be regulated by Scotland only then fair enough!

 

Think of it as your child leaving home! They want their own place, independance and their own money.

 

If it all goes wrong! Do you turn your back on your children? NO!

 

Let them have their independance, and see how they manage! But DON'T turn our backs

if they do decide to go (I dont believe they will) then the door should be shut its not us turning our backs its them, no bail outs,no parachute, the risks should put up front rather than just billy blowfish's rose tinted view, and a decision made on that, but it should be like a b&q sale, once they're gone they're gone.

 

KW

[Gimlet]

 

If this were in any way realistically possible, I would move to Scotland.

 

So would I.

[islandgun]

 

If this were in any way realistically possible, I would move to Scotland.

 

 

 

So would I.

I'm sure you would both be very welcome

[Pheasant Plucker]

New figures from the Global Connections Survey demonstrate that Scotland is one of the world’s top exporting nations with the economic strength to succeed as an independent country.

 

Scotland’s exports were worth nearly £100 billion in 2012 alone, a 17% increase on 2008.

 

The Financial Times reports that the figures offer "a picture of a mature and independent trading nation" which “would also be a vibrant exporter of other goods and services to the world.”

 

Scotland’s strong export figures create a trading surplus that enhances UK Sterling’s balance of payments. The UK currently suffers from a large trade deficit, but Scotland’s use of the pound underpins the value of the currency. This is a key reason for why a currency union is in the best interests of the rest of the UK.

[aris]

Basically they are underpinning their economy on petroleum and whiskey.

[evo]

my personal view is that if they want independence then that is what they should have,

 

they should not have the pound and should automatically be using the euro, but they probably wont want that either,

 

our neighbours are Scottish and a cracking couple and they are in their 50,s and both don't want Scotland to go on their own,

 

out is out as has been said

 

atb Evo

[Pheasant Plucker]

Basically they are underpinning their economy on petroleum and whiskey.

At least get your terminology correct:

 

Whiskey is Irish - Whisky is Scottish

 

Its not petroleum - its crude oil.

 

In any event you are wrong;

 

Scotland is a net contributor to the UK

 

In 2011-12 Scotland provided 9.9% of UK taxes and received only 9.3% of total UK spending. This means Scotland would have been £4.4 billion better off as an independent country last year alone. We could have spent that money investing in our economy with the same debt levels as the rest of the UK or saved it and had £4.4bn less debt.

 

Scotland has paid £64 billion in UK debt interest that Scotland didn’t need. An independent Scotland would have been far better off economically. This was reported recently in the Sunday Times after bespoke Business for Scotland research showed that Scotland has been subsidising the failings of Westminster economic mismanagement.

 

Scotland has a lower deficit than the UK. Scotland’s is at 5.4%, while the UK deficit is 8.5% of GDP, as of the 2011 IMF comparison. Scotland only spends 42.7% of Scotland’s GDP on public spending. The UK spends 45.5%. This demonstrates that Scotland’s public finances are in a stronger position than the UK as a whole. The latest GERS figures place Scotland’s deficit at 5% compared to the UK’s 7.9%.

 

The oil in the North Sea is worth over £1 trillion. There are at least 15-24 billion barrels of oil remaining which will continue long into the 21st century. Over 90% of the tax revenue will go to an independent Scotland which can help to establish a national oil fund for future investment. Recently, Business for Scotland explained the potential for a West coast oil boom that is currently blocked by Westminster. Independence could revitalise the economies of Ayrshire and the Strathclyde region as a whole. Most oil price forecasts are upward, with one of the exceptions being the UK Government’s OBR which has a political motivation to underestimate oil revenue.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Pheasant Plucker

[scotslad]

It actually scares me the vote is so close as so little proper information and facts have came out. How the majority of scottish public can make an informed choice is beyond me!

 

At the moment (and i don't see it changing any time soon) there simply is not the facts out there so folk have to vote with there hearts, remember just before the vote scotand has the commonwealth games and ryder cup as well as anniversary for Bannockburn 1314.

I think it could be a lot closer than people think and the NO camipgn is not doing itself any favours.

 

Salmond and the SNP are just spouting pipe dreams, BUT everyone knows that and see throu that for wot it is.

 

The NO campign seem far worse to me, some off the scare tatics they came out with. But the difference is there facts/past experiences tell a completely different picture

 

Border controls for security at gretna etc, yet these border controls don't exists between NI and Rep. Why not if security is so important? My kiwi mates used to regularly travel to europe via stranraer when there visa's had expired

Scots not allowed to join UK/English army? Yet almost every other commonwealth country has soliders serving and some even have own regiments(Gurka's)

 

As for the currency both Iceland and Faoroes share the Krona althou i'm sure worth a different value to the Danish Krona so it must be possible to share.

There is also talk in todays papers about carrying on using the pound without permission and with no say over interrest rates etc, like many countries do with the US dollar

 

If it changes it never hampered companies in both Eire and NI working together in the days before the euro, when the punt was around £1.05

 

Wot really needs to happen is for politicians to be honest and just tell us straight so we can make an informed decision. Oh look theres a flying pig

[Nial]

In 2011-12 Scotland provided 9.9% of UK taxes and received only 9.3% of total UK spending.

 

You're worried about _0.6%_

 

How much does oil revenue have to decline for that to be reversed?

 

If it was a 30% difference I think people would be justified in feeling hard done by, but _0.6%_.

 

 

Nial

[Penelope]

'At the moment (and i don't see it changing any time soon) there simply is not the facts out there so folk have to vote with there hearts, remember just before the vote scotand has the commonwealth games and ryder cup as well as anniversary for Bannockburn 1314'.

 

IMO it's why the date was chosen

[amateur]

 

You're worried about _0.6%_

 

How much does oil revenue have to decline for that to be reversed?

 

If it was a 30% difference I think people would be justified in feeling hard done by, but _0.6%_.

 

 

Nial

 

 

Mony a mickle maks a muckle

[mr smith]

You're worried about _0.6%_

 

How much does oil revenue have to decline for that to be reversed?

 

If it was a 30% difference I think people would be justified in feeling hard done by, but _0.6%_.

 

 

Nial

 

I think it was an attempt to counter the view down south that we are sucking them dry.What exactly the truth is we'll probably never get to know.

[Pheasant Plucker]

 

You're worried about _0.6%_

 

How much does oil revenue have to decline for that to be reversed?

 

If it was a 30% difference I think people would be justified in feeling hard done by, but _0.6%_.

 

 

Nial

Sure but 0.6% of what? Growth, Inflation and interest rates deal in relatively small percentages but the effect can be meaningful - it does you no credit to trivialise the figures.

 

Looking at Scotland’s national accounts (GERS) you can see that there is an expenditure line labelled “Public Sector Debt Interest” in 2011/12. This amounts to £4.1 billion and begs the question. Why does an oil rich nation at a time when oil and energy prices are high have to pay so much interest on debt? No other similar nation with a strong onshore economy and the additional bonus of a large and well established oil and gas sector like Scotland is burdened with such payments.

 

Note: The £4.1 billion is simply the cost of servicing the interest on a much larger debt, there is no actual capital repayment element in that figure.

 

So if you looked back at 32 years of historic GERS data and found the following quite staggering:

 

Every year for 32 years (the entire available data) GERS includes a deduction from Scotland’s block grant equivalent to Scotland’s population percentage share of Westminster debt.

 

Over the 32 years, Scotland’s share of UK debt interest amounted to £64.1 billion.

 

However, during that time had Scotland been an independent country with its geographic share of oil revenues established under international law (as would be the case under independence) Scotland’s’ borrowing over 32 years would have been zero, nil, nothing, no pounds sterling at all.

 

I hope that is clear but for absolute clarity let me put it in other words. Scotland paid £64.1 billion (sixty-four thousand one hundred million pounds) interest on debt that Scotland had no need for, simply because we are not an independent country! As a result, on average, £2,000 million was ripped out of the heart of Scotland’s economy every year for 32 years, to pay interest on loans that Scotland didn’t take out and didn’t need.

 

How on earth does that make us better together? And how is the rest of the UK going to find a replacement for Scottish contributions in the event of Independence? The answer is they will not - and the UK will find it extremely difficult to exist without Scotland - and that is why Westminster is saying NO NO NO!

 

More recently, former Chancellor Denis Healey in an exclusive interview with Holyrood Magazine said:

 

“Scotland “pays its fair share” and that “these myths” are simply perpetuated by those that oppose independence”. And that “Scotland’s oil wealth had been squandered by Westminster rather than invested, while being underplayed (in value terms) by the UK government to subdue calls for Scottish independence”.

[aris]

I wonder if Scotland would be asking for independence if there was no North Sea oil. If so would it be ethical for England and Wales to vote to cast them off as surplus to requirements?

[aris]

I hope that is clear but for absolute clarity let me put it in other words. Scotland paid £64.1 billion (sixty-four thousand one hundred million pounds) interest on debt that Scotland had no need for, simply because we are not an independent country! As a result, on average, £2,000 million was ripped out of the heart of Scotland’s economy every year for 32 years, to pay interest on loans that Scotland didn’t take out and didn’t need.

 

Does that include the £45bn to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland?

[Pheasant Plucker]

 

Does that include the £45bn to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland?

No it does not and it was closer to £53bn including the Lloyds Banking Group - at least that will be paid back!

 

Neither does it include the £289bn that Westminster and previous non-Scottish voted governments spent on the Falklands, Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

The point is, Westminster has lied to the people of Scotland for years (and it seems to the entire UK!) about fiscal matters and their reasons for abject political failure. That includes useless Scottish politicians Blair, Brown et al

Edited February 14, 2014 by Pheasant Plucker

[aris]

No it does not.

 

Neither does it include the £289bn that Westminster and previous non-Scottish voted governments spent on the Falklands, Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

The point is, Westminster has lied to the people of Scotland for years (and it seems to the entire UK!) about fiscal matters and their reasons for abject political failure. That includes useless Scottish politicians Blair, Brown et al

 

You obviously sound very hard done by. I hope you get your YES vote.