mick morton Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Over the weekend I thought I would try out steel on pigeons I found that in my experience this weekend it was not effective and I will not be using it again. It is ok for wild fowling as we have no choice, but, to say it is more environmentally friendly I would question it. The cartridges I used had a full plastic cup and not only were they not effective on the pigeons. I was scattering the field with plastic wads. My friends and I normally use lead and felt wad. The cartridges were 30g size 4 steel, normally use size 6 lead. What have other found or is it just me? Cheers Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Over the weekend I thought I would try out steel on pigeons I found that in my experience this weekend it was not effective and I will not be using it again. It is ok for wild fowling as we have no choice, but, to say it is more environmentally friendly I would question it. The cartridges I used had a full plastic cup and not only were they not effective on the pigeons. I was scattering the field with plastic wads. My friends and I normally use lead and felt wad. The cartridges were 30g size 4 steel, normally use size 6 lead. What have other found or is it just me? Cheers Mick Steel is useless on wildfowl and should be banned as inhumane. Better to be shot dead than wounded to die later of blood poisoning as the steel goes rusty. Also, too many people think they are George Digweed and shoot at birds 60+ yards away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Over the weekend I thought I would try out steel on pigeons I found that in my experience this weekend it was not effective and I will not be using it again. It is ok for wild fowling as we have no choice, but, to say it is more environmentally friendly I would question it. The cartridges I used had a full plastic cup and not only were they not effective on the pigeons. I was scattering the field with plastic wads. My friends and I normally use lead and felt wad. The cartridges were 30g size 4 steel, normally use size 6 lead. What have other found or is it just me? Cheers Mick I think it's just you. I reckon 30gm of 4, 5 or 6 would be ideal for pigeons. Steel is useless on wildfowl and should be banned as inhumane. Better to be shot dead than wounded to die later of blood poisoning as the steel goes rusty. Also, too many people think they are George Digweed and shoot at birds 60+ yards away. I hate to disagree, but you are so wrong on this! Steel has been proven by many wildfowlers to be a great killer. And there are plenty of people around who aren't George Digweed that can kill quarry at 60 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 ive had good results this last season with eley lightning steel 5,on ducks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Steel is useless on wildfowl and should be banned as inhumane. Better to be shot dead than wounded to die later of blood poisoning as the steel goes rusty. Also, too many people think they are George Digweed and shoot at birds 60+ yards away. You sir are full of rubbish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrshiretaxidermy Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 You sir are full of rubbish! +1 Over the weekend I thought I would try out steel on pigeons I found that in my experience this weekend it was not effective and I will not be using it again. It is ok for wild fowling as we have no choice, but, to say it is more environmentally friendly I would question it. The cartridges I used had a full plastic cup and not only were they not effective on the pigeons. I was scattering the field with plastic wads. My friends and I normally use lead and felt wad. The cartridges were 30g size 4 steel, normally use size 6 lead. What have other found or is it just me? Cheers Mick It must be you. It takes more than one day out to adjust to using steel shot. 28g 7.5s, and ive shot birds out to 50 yards regular. Also, you can get these with a fibre wad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actionpigeons Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I only ever shoot steel no matter what I am shooting at. Firstly: because I keep birds of prey, so I can feed what I shoot with the minimum of worry. secondly: I get 50p each for pigeons that are steel shot. I use 32g / 5s and find they do the job well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I think it's just you. I reckon 30gm of 4, 5 or 6 would be ideal for pigeons. I hate to disagree, but you are so wrong on this! Steel has been proven by many wildfowlers to be a great killer. And there are plenty of people around who aren't George Digweed that can kill quarry at 60 yards. Yes, and wound plenty more too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrshiretaxidermy Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Yes, and wound plenty more too! You kill every one you shoot with lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Yes, and wound plenty more too! Again wrong. If steel was really that bad then wildfowlers would not use it. Quality of cartridges is much more important in wildfowling imo and quite frankley is steel was as bad as you say then none of us would use it. if its good for ducks and geese it is most definatly good for pigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Again wrong. If steel was really that bad then wildfowlers would not use it. Quality of cartridges is much more important in wildfowling imo and quite frankley is steel was as bad as you say then none of us would use it. if its good for ducks and geese it is most definatly good for pigeons Surely Wildfowlers don't use Steel loads out of choice..? They use Steel because they have to, I'll bet if you gave them the option then not many would be shooting Steel loads..? I've used Steel loads on Pigeons, normally 32g 4's, and they definitely do not kill as well as the equivalent load in Lead, and I've tried a number of brands, including Eley, Fiocchi, Gamebore, Express and Rio, (Rio are the best, IMHO). You tend to get a lot more runners and pricked birds with Steel loads, but a Keeper friend of mine reckons that smaller loads and shot sizes, i.e. 28 g 7's will do the job, I just don't have the balls to use them..! Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Surely Wildfowlers don't use Steel loads out of choice..? They use Steel because they have to, I'll bet if you gave them the option then not many would be shooting Steel loads..? I've used Steel loads on Pigeons, normally 32g 4's, and they definitely do not kill as well as the equivalent load in Lead, and I've tried a number of brands, including Eley, Fiocchi, Gamebore, Express and Rio, (Rio are the best, IMHO). You tend to get a lot more runners and pricked birds with Steel loads, but a Keeper friend of mine reckons that smaller loads and shot sizes, i.e. 28 g 7's will do the job, I just don't have the balls to use them..! Cat. Steel is not the only non toxic, if it was really that rubbish we'd be all using hevi shot or other tungsten based shot. We here all the time on here that steel is no good and you get tons more runners, but i dont think its the case. I've used both steel and lead on pigeons and shot just the same with either. The only pricked birds i'd had from using steel was down to my poor shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Steel is not the only non toxic, if it was really that rubbish we'd be all using hevi shot or other tungsten based shot. So you'd be happy to pay over a quid each for every shell you shoot at pigeons...? blimey I didn't realise that Norfolk people were so well off..? Hevi shot or Tungsten are simply not an option when you're looking at burning up a couple of hundred shells in a good session over decoys. I didn't say that Steel loads were rubbish, I've shot some corking long birds with Steel, but I've also had a good few birds that I've hit in the middle of the pattern at 25 yards that have jumped up and flown away when I've gone to pick them up, it certainly happens less frequently when using Lead shot. That's my opinion, for what it's worth, others may have different views. Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick morton Posted April 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Thanks for your comments, yes I will be using steel again, but, before I do so I am going to research and do some trials on patterning before I go out again. I will also be looking into plastic and fibre wads as this does effect your patten. I'm interested in your comments which ever side of the fence you sit on! Cheers Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 I think it's just you. I reckon 30gm of 4, 5 or 6 would be ideal for pigeons. I hate to disagree, but you are so wrong on this! Steel has been proven by many wildfowlers to be a great killer. And there are plenty of people around who aren't George Digweed that can kill quarry at 60 yards. The sky on a clear morning is blue. Disagree with that if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiffy Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 i tooka box of 32g 4 steel out on the weekend, seemed to work ok on jackdaws and the only woodie that came within range but their not soemthing ill sue again.. i had one box i wanted rid of and ill stick to lead for all my non fowling hunting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 You sir are full of rubbish! Sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 You kill every one you shoot with lead? No. but at least they don't die days later of blood poisoning. A fair proportion of the pigeons I eat have healed shot wounds. (OK I haven't checked the pellets to see if they're steel or lead but let's be sensible) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrshiretaxidermy Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 No. but at least they don't die days later of blood poisoning. A fair proportion of the pigeons I eat have healed shot wounds. (OK I haven't checked the pellets to see if they're steel or lead but let's be sensible) If you want to be sensible about it, then you need to consider how your wounded birds die when pricked by lead shot as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) Over the weekend I thought I would try out steel on pigeons I found that in my experience this weekend it was not effective ..........or is it just me? You are perfectly correct, and no, it's not just you. If you poop off a number 4 steel and a number 6 lead both having a MV of 1300 ft/sec, at 40 yards they will both have the same energy figure within 0.01 of a decimal place. If two pellets of differing sizes have the same energy, then the smaller of the two will be more lethally effective. We know that the lead 6 will kill pigeon beyond that range as will, probably, the steel 4 but for steel to be as equally effective as the lead at the 40 yards a No1 sized shot would be required. Steel does work but your findings although limited, would enforce the fact that 'going up two shot sizes' is a load of old squit and does steel no favours at all. In this instance (40 yards) because we are not talking maximum range capability of either material, the consequences are not as severe as they would be if one was to go up 2 sizes from lead to use steel at the known maximum effective range of the given lead shot. Edit: Missing word added. Edited April 15, 2014 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1cat Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) The sky on a clear morning is blue. Disagree with that if you like.Depends on how early in the morning.It might be black Edited April 15, 2014 by Bear1cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1cat Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 I have never used steel shot, but I have a couple of questions for those that know more than me. If we go scattering crop fields with steel shot will it set of the metal detectors in combine harvesters? I have also heard that it can be very dangerous to have a cat scan if you have swallowed steel shot. Is this so or am I talking rubbish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Yes us wildfowlers have killed some good birds with steel , would we use steel or any other non toxic if we did not have to, I think if we are being perfectly honest no would be the answer to that question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 If we could turn the clock back to when the non toxic laws were introduced and were given a choice to weather we used steel or lead im sure 99% would chose lead, I know I would have done, my fowling guns were English sxs with tight chokes and I would be a bit reluctant to use steel in them , I know we had different metals we could use but the price was to expensive for me as I live in the poorer part of Norfolk and a pound a shell was out of my league , so I bought a gun that can take them and over the years the shells have improved and I have got more confident in using them and I now find them suitable within reason that is as all cartridges have there limitations , as for pigeons , I am sure steel can do the job but because I have still got a choice then I will stick with lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pestcontrol1 Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Steel is useless on wildfowl and should be banned as inhumane. Better to be shot dead than wounded to die later of blood poisoning as the steel goes rusty. Also, too many people think they are George Digweed and shoot at birds 60+ yards away. What a load of bullshot you want to get out more 60 yards just a run of the mill range not a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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