Bring back WAGBI

[islandgun]

Due to the general anger and disappointment of many people who have voiced their opinion and the many who haven't, concerning the general licence and lack of voice in the granting of the same, would it not be possible to re-start WAGBI ?

There are many on here who have organisational experience at club level and the PW forum could be used at least to start, as a point of contact. In this day and age of on-line forms, applications and websites surely it would fairly straight forward.

I for one feel that a combined voice is the best way to present our case and feel that so far we have not been heard or represented, I did Email NE but they didn't seem to take much notice !

Please give it a thought anyway, I would be quite happy to travel down to the center of England to discuss it over a pint.

[Konnie]

be interesting how many pounds are paid to basc from wildfowling membership, could be surprised what funds are available to start such a move.

[Tadorna]

be interesting how many pounds are paid to basc from wildfowling membership, could be surprised what funds are available to start such a move.

Do the excercise on PW. I pledge £50 to imaginary WAGBI as my annual subscription.

[mudpatten]

This is a truly wonderful and romantic idea!

 

The trouble with it is that I can well remember dealing with WAGBI, something that a large majority of younger fowlers cannot actually do.

 

WAGBI, by comparison to it`s love child BASC was small, inefficient and powerless. Whats more, it only had a fraction of the problem issues to deal with that currently beset the `fowling community /BASC.

 

Had the WAGBI caterpillar not chrysalised into the BASC butterfly in the 1980s, wildfowling as a sport would, by now, be finished.

 

Incidentally, I attended the meeting at which the name and direction of WAGBI was changed, and I voted against it!!

 

As a sport, the wildfowling demographic is slipping towards decline and senility with the drop off of overall numbers not being matched by the recruiting and retention of new members.

 

As a once powerful political force within WAGBI/BASC, the wildfowling community is now divided and apathetic. In recent BASC Council elections, when every muscle and sinew has been strained by the movers and shakers within the sport to get wildfowling candidates elected, the turn out at the ballot box has been pathetic and candidates have barely scraped home, or indeed, not been elected!

 

At the last elections the average number of votes per candidate was about 1800. There are some 7,000 fowlers,( It used to be 10,000+) it therefore follows that some 5,200 wildfowlers COULD NOT EVEN BE BOTHERED TO VOTE!

 

These are not the people with whom I`d want to throw in my lot with WAGBI2.

 

I`m quite pleased that I can ponce a free ride off the back of pheasant and grouse shooters, even if it is at the expense of such current misunderstandings as the GL farce.

 

Far better to change BASC from within rather than try to kick a long dead WAGBI back into life.

[islandgun]

Mudpattern I appreciate your views and experience, I wasn't suggesting that members shoudn't stay within BASC, more try to unite as wildfowlers and make one loud voice rather than lots of little squeaks, petition NE and BASC and the rest as a group!

[robbiep]

Due to the general anger and disappointment of many people who have voiced their opinion and the many who haven't, concerning the general licence

 

Oh, come on. So now you are assuming to speak for the many who haven't given their opinion, and you are assuming that they are 'angry and disappointed'.

 

Pot, kettle, anyone ?

[mudpatten]

Islandgun, I sincerely hope that the current hot potato IS the catalyst that causes wildfowlers to unite into a single voice!

[Kes]

I am not a wildfowler yet, I would like to be, opportunities are limited.

I do not think the idea of creating a wildfowling voice within a shooting organisation is romantic or impractical. Shooter apathy is notorious, wildfowlers, it seems to me, are no less and no more afflicted by apathy than anyone else. Consider titles such as CLA and Wildfowlers Forum (CLAWF) Since WWT and RSPB are conservation minded and wildfowlers accept and implement a lead ban maybe a WWT would welcome a ready made group of conservation volunteer focussed on maintaining healthy populations of all wildfowl?

No harm in meeting to talk over a pint.

I would join and very willingly do my bit.

By thinking the unlikely you are already takinga stronger negotiating position. Would any CEO (BASC even) wish to see a mass exodus of shooting enthusiasts.

There are obvious starting points to reinforce whatever position you wish to take and Crown Estates is probably the first.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Kes

[wymberley]

For those not able (either too young or too old possibly) to remember, the demise of WAGBI was marked by the replacement of the straw bales in the Members' Enclosure at t'Fair with plastic tables and chairs.

[islandgun]

 

Oh, come on. So now you are assuming to speak for the many who haven't given their opinion, and you are assuming that they are 'angry and disappointed'.

 

Pot, kettle, anyone ?

I certainly didn't mean to assume anything or speak for anyone, just worded it badly, not sure what pot and kettle have got to do with it

[robbiep]

I certainly didn't mean to assume anything or speak for anyone, just worded it badly, not sure what pot and kettle have got to do with it

 

What I mean is that you are having a pop at BASC for not representing the viewpoint of the members. You clearly say :

 

Due to the general anger and disappointment of many people who have voiced their opinion and the many who haven't, concerning the general licence and lack of voice in the granting of the same, would it not be possible to re-start WAGBI ?

...

I for one feel that a combined voice is the best way to present our case and feel that so far we have not been heard or represented,

So, you are complaining about not being heard or represented, but are just before that assuming that a fair number of people who have not voiced an opinion are 'angry and disappointed'. So you are immediately piling in a load of wildfowlers who have said nothing in with those who have kicked up a stink over the GL changes.

 

Ever thought that maybe the ones who have said nothing, have nothing to say ?

Or that maybe they support the changes ?

[islandgun]

OK get that, again I worded it badly, please find corrected post and as an observation I don't remember anyone but BASC arguing for the GL

 

 

 

Due to the general anger and disappointment of many people who have voiced their opinion concerning the general licence and lack of voice in the granting of the same, would it not be possible to re-start WAGBI ?

There are many on here who have organisational experience at club level and the PW forum could be used at least to start, as a point of contact. In this day and age of on-line forms, applications and websites surely it would fairly straight forward.

I for one feel that a combined voice is the best way to present our case and feel that so far we have not been heard or represented, I did Email NE but they didn't seem to take much notice !

Please give it a thought anyway, I would be quite happy to travel down to the center of England to discuss it over a pint.

Edited May 17, 2014 by islandgun

[wildfowler.250]

Although I disagree with the GL changes... I think everyone would be in a far stronger position if the CA/BASC/SACS ect would combine rather than being smaller organizations.. But you can't keep everyone happy.

[spanj]

Just what we need, ANOTHER shooting organisation...... NOT. What we need is a single, effective entity, however this wil never happen. The shooting community reminds me a little of the Life of Brian

[islandgun]

This is a truly wonderful and romantic idea!

 

The trouble with it is that I can well remember dealing with WAGBI, something that a large majority of younger fowlers cannot actually do.

 

WAGBI, by comparison to it`s love child BASC was small, inefficient and powerless. Whats more, it only had a fraction of the problem issues to deal with that currently beset the `fowling community /BASC.

 

Had the WAGBI caterpillar not chrysalised into the BASC butterfly in the 1980s, wildfowling as a sport would, by now, be finished.

 

Incidentally, I attended the meeting at which the name and direction of WAGBI was changed, and I voted against it!!

 

As a sport, the wildfowling demographic is slipping towards decline and senility with the drop off of overall numbers not being matched by the recruiting and retention of new members.

 

As a once powerful political force within WAGBI/BASC, the wildfowling community is now divided and apathetic. In recent BASC Council elections, when every muscle and sinew has been strained by the movers and shakers within the sport to get wildfowling candidates elected, the turn out at the ballot box has been pathetic and candidates have barely scraped home, or indeed, not been elected!

 

At the last elections the average number of votes per candidate was about 1800. There are some 7,000 fowlers,( It used to be 10,000+) it therefore follows that some 5,200 wildfowlers COULD NOT EVEN BE BOTHERED TO VOTE!

 

These are not the people with whom I`d want to throw in my lot with WAGBI2.

 

I`m quite pleased that I can ponce a free ride off the back of pheasant and grouse shooters, even if it is at the expense of such current misunderstandings as the GL farce.

 

Far better to change BASC from within rather than try to kick a long dead WAGBI back into life.

Looks like you were right there

 

For those not able (either too young or too old possibly) to remember, the demise of WAGBI was marked by the replacement of the straw bales in the Members' Enclosure at t'Fair with plastic tables and chairs.

I like the sound of straw bales

[Grandalf]

I was a WAGBI member. I didn't want it to change either - but it did.

BASC has helped me and my small fowling syndicate enormously in our annual battles with NE over the renewal of our licence.

They, NE, actually own our marsh area. It is always very difficult to negotiate with them.

As I said, BASC have given our six member syndicate a lot of assistance but they were very wrong with this GL stuff.

Angry as I feel about it, where else can I go for support?

I would love an enormously powerful fowlers only organisation but it just isn't going to happen.

Change from inside the organisation is our only hope.

[anser2]

Alas BASC seems to have lost all its moral shooting ethics and much as I would walk out of it today as yet I cant see an alternitive , though the subject is far from a close door to my mind. There are wildfowling clubs who thrive without being members of BASC and if they can do it perhaps my clubs could do it too.

[islandgun]

Alas BASC seems to have lost all its moral shooting ethics and much as I would walk out of it today as yet I cant see an alternitive , though the subject is far from a close door to my mind. There are wildfowling clubs who thrive without being members of BASC and if they can do it perhaps my clubs could do it too.

My OP was not about seeking to oppose BASC but to start /restart a wildfowling centered affiliation that would be heard as a (large) number of voices as apposed to single emails etc in the first instance against the GL but Im sure there would be others,

I wonder if we could start a poll on PW to see what the results were for or against the GL ?

 

I was a WAGBI member. I didn't want it to change either - but it did.

BASC has helped me and my small fowling syndicate enormously in our annual battles with NE over the renewal of our licence.

They, NE, actually own our marsh area. It is always very difficult to negotiate with them.

As I said, BASC have given our six member syndicate a lot of assistance but they were very wrong with this GL stuff.

Angry as I feel about it, where else can I go for support?

I would love an enormously powerful fowlers only organisation but it just isn't going to happen.

Change from inside the organisation is our only hope.

I was a WAGBI member as well. what i am suggesting is to apply more pressure to BASC and NE as a group of signatures and maybe if the organisational skills were there, to start a club to represent Wildfowling

[matone]

This is a truly wonderful and romantic idea!

 

The trouble with it is that I can well remember dealing with WAGBI, something that a large majority of younger fowlers cannot actually do.

 

WAGBI, by comparison to it`s love child BASC was small, inefficient and powerless. Whats more, it only had a fraction of the problem issues to deal with that currently beset the `fowling community /BASC.

 

Had the WAGBI caterpillar not chrysalised into the BASC butterfly in the 1980s, wildfowling as a sport would, by now, be finished.

 

Incidentally, I attended the meeting at which the name and direction of WAGBI was changed, and I voted against it!!

 

As a sport, the wildfowling demographic is slipping towards decline and senility with the drop off of overall numbers not being matched by the recruiting and retention of new members.

 

As a once powerful political force within WAGBI/BASC, the wildfowling community is now divided and apathetic. In recent BASC Council elections, when every muscle and sinew has been strained by the movers and shakers within the sport to get wildfowling candidates elected, the turn out at the ballot box has been pathetic and candidates have barely scraped home, or indeed, not been elected!

 

At the last elections the average number of votes per candidate was about 1800. There are some 7,000 fowlers,( It used to be 10,000+) it therefore follows that some 5,200 wildfowlers COULD NOT EVEN BE BOTHERED TO VOTE!

 

These are not the people with whom I`d want to throw in my lot with WAGBI2.

 

I`m quite pleased that I can ponce a free ride off the back of pheasant and grouse shooters, even if it is at the expense of such current misunderstandings as the GL farce.

 

Far better to change BASC from within rather than try to kick a long dead WAGBI back into life.

A fairly concise summary,take heed !

[Fisheruk]

This is a truly wonderful and romantic idea!

 

The trouble with it is that I can well remember dealing with WAGBI, something that a large majority of younger fowlers cannot actually do.

 

WAGBI, by comparison to it`s love child BASC was small, inefficient and powerless. Whats more, it only had a fraction of the problem issues to deal with that currently beset the `fowling community /BASC.

 

Had the WAGBI caterpillar not chrysalised into the BASC butterfly in the 1980s, wildfowling as a sport would, by now, be finished.

 

Incidentally, I attended the meeting at which the name and direction of WAGBI was changed, and I voted against it!!

 

As a sport, the wildfowling demographic is slipping towards decline and senility with the drop off of overall numbers not being matched by the recruiting and retention of new members.

 

As a once powerful political force within WAGBI/BASC, the wildfowling community is now divided and apathetic. In recent BASC Council elections, when every muscle and sinew has been strained by the movers and shakers within the sport to get wildfowling candidates elected, the turn out at the ballot box has been pathetic and candidates have barely scraped home, or indeed, not been elected!

 

At the last elections the average number of votes per candidate was about 1800. There are some 7,000 fowlers,( It used to be 10,000+) it therefore follows that some 5,200 wildfowlers COULD NOT EVEN BE BOTHERED TO VOTE!

 

These are not the people with whom I`d want to throw in my lot with WAGBI2.

 

I`m quite pleased that I can ponce a free ride off the back of pheasant and grouse shooters, even if it is at the expense of such current misunderstandings as the GL farce.

 

Far better to change BASC from within rather than try to kick a long dead WAGBI back into life.

This seems to reflect my experience of local wildfowlers in the North West. Having made contact about joining the local club and being told it was dead man's shoes and waiting lists of 17 years I decided to not even bother. BASC have a young shots program but I don't see why locals should have to drive hours to shoot wildfowl when there are thousands within a few miles but locals are too possessive and introverted to open their doors to new blood. They certainly seem to have the desire to wither and die out naturally.

[Grandalf]

This seems to reflect my experience of local wildfowlers in the North West. Having made contact about joining the local club and being told it was dead man's shoes and waiting lists of 17 years I decided to not even bother. BASC have a young shots program but I don't see why locals should have to drive hours to shoot wildfowl when there are thousands within a few miles but locals are too possessive and introverted to open their doors to new blood. They certainly seem to have the desire to wither and die out naturally.

Very different in East Anglia where all clubs seem to be recruiting.

They all have some sort of training programme with more experienced members taking out the new guys.

Seems to work quite well.

Clubs are even working together and sharing marshes.

[kent]

The Wildfowling clubs face a real issue of age demographics. The guys who started the clubs are mainly all gone now, their own youngsters are now in their sixties and a great deal recruitment is now done through the great advancement in the young shots program. Now do you see the issue? 30-40 somethings are being turned down, discouraged and put on endless waiting lists that are filled from below, these people are those who must take the clubs / committees and the sport forwards in the next decade or so, also those who will campaign for the sport. Yes even a new WAGBI will have to be formed by and from their ranks if it ever comes to it. The forgotten thing is WAGBI was formed when wildfowling was taken on a lot easier by far higher numbers and the clubs were formed to limit the pressure these numbers created and put some rules into place . Non of this is or was a bad thing or even an issue of consideration when the clubs were first formed circa 1950 (without it the sport would have finished or been reduced to a far smaller species list). It is a bad thing now though, as much as we might like to think otherwise

Now look forwards ten years, Is the 15 yr old of today going to be in a good position in their home life or family and work / fanatical life to be active on the marsh as well as in local club matters? Will they still live in the area following education and career advancement? I feel we are carrying a time bomb, at club and national level

Re-forming WAGBI is a very nice idea but it should end at that, we need to join all the sports together and unify to protect them all 100% without and sacrificial lambs being placed on the alter. We need new rules and conditions within BASC's operating. In short it has become an out of control monster and that cannot be further demonstrated in my opinion than by putting a CEO in place who didn't actually shoot on taking up the post and then turning on the wildfowlers. Trust me all I think we are aiding is a man putting down victories on his CV before he moves on (mentioning nothing of those sacrificed and trodden on or the bucks passed).

Who will be next? Airgunners? pigeon shooters? deerstalkers? it just depends on what suits in my opinion non of us are safe and we wont be safer with fragmenting into small special interest groups (though I like the thought of a new WAGBI its not practical)

 

The thing we should be looking at is changing BASC from within. I think somebody has forgotten who works for who here

[robbiep]

Of course, if that's your feelings, then all you have to do is be in BASC and get another 3 (I think) members to nominate you, to stand for election to the general council. Write a decent bit of blurb for the members to see you're worth voting for, and see what happens.

 

The downside to that is that you then find out what it's really like, rather than comfortably griping on the sidelines.

[kent]

Of course, if that's your feelings, then all you have to do is be in BASC and get another 3 (I think) members to nominate you, to stand for election to the general council. Write a decent bit of blurb for the members to see you're worth voting for, and see what happens.

 

The downside to that is that you then find out what it's really like, rather than comfortably griping on the sidelines.

 

 

I personally think the council is part of the issue ( a major one in the case of the greylag) and the way they are elected, look at the thread on the council candidate on here who campaigned against foxhunting (it didn't say about that in his blurb did in now?). No I feel for BASC to change it will take more than a council change it will be a constitutional change but it is a start I grant you

[nic]

I would like to be romantic and see WAGBI come back but how effective would it be?

 

The reality is that the larger the organisation then the more it is listened to (God is on the side of the big battalions)

 

The downside is that as a smaller part of a larger entity, then you cannot expect your views to be always adhered to. I see various figures given... 7000 fowlers..... in an organisation of 130,000 members....... about what 6% of their membership?.

 

Now if we could actually get rid of our apathy and vote and speak up by email, letter etc then they would listen more, because the rest of the membership is probably as disjointed and apathetic as we are.

 

That works in all other organisations......political parties, trade unions, clubs etc its those that turn up, shout louder and be there at the vote, that get what they want. The ones that sit at home wishing it was the way they want or the way it was will not get it.