STOTTO Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Well it may be. Devomax would be the safest bet for any region and lets face it there are English regions who are ignored by the South East seat of power and have lost out on investment which has been steered to Scotland or Wales for political purposes. Not steered there by Scottish or Welsh influence so much as that of the South East power base. I have to say that for many years I have avoided buying Scottish goods and I am not the only one. The majority of Scotlands trade is with the rest of the UK not with the world at large. I mistakenly bought some Scottish potatoes the other day. They boiled away to mush and had no unity in mashing whereas some fine local English potatoes used the next day were tasty and had a good binding quality ;-) Ah, the ‘Spuds’ have it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 If it is close, real close, say for example 50.1% yes, 49.9% no, is that enough of a mandate for the SNP to forge through on their plans independence? Would the other 49.9% accept it and all the uncertainties lying down ?? Is it even possible the SNP might choke on the prospect themselves and settle for Devo Max and staying in the union? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I never had much time for John Major, but I can't argue with a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Major was a very good PM, he got an excellent deal from Europe at the time. His image let him down, and I believe Spitting Image treat him atrociously which contributed to that. (funny the programme stopped once the socialists were in power). Eventually he was brought down by divisions in his own party over Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I never had much time for John Major, but I can't argue with a word. Except it's partisan and doesn't mention Cameron's role in all this. Like his negotiations with Salmond on the terms of the referendum like who can and who cannot vote and indeed the actual referendum itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 On the topic of food. I complained to Sainsbury's the other month. They had Strawberrys from Kent labeled as British and rasberrys from Scotland labeled as Scottish. I didn't get a response from my complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) Finally, one of the reasons why Scotland failed to resist takeover by England way back was because England was united by force, the Clans were not and fought or mistrusted each other and hence true unity was elusive at critical times. Scotland wasn't 'taken over' by the English, it was a voluntary union after Scotland bankrupted itself with the Darien Scheme.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme I am worried that history is about to repeat itself. Nial. Edited September 10, 2014 by Nial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Having done a lot of stats stuff for marketing to Scotland and seen detailed geodemographic data I think King Alex may have bitten off rather more than he can chew. I wouldn't want to control that lot. Most of the money comes from elsewhere and may (some already deserting sinking ship) so south or elsewhere in Europe. I'm not sure what he will be left with but he's welcome to it and I fear they will suffer. The worry for me is the exodus to England. You know what they say about the scots - they are like piles and if they come down but go back then no problems but if they come down and stay down they are ****! Put a few more rows of brick on Hadrians wall and quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Norfolk Dumpling, the issue of immigration is a good one. Wonder what is going to happen to our borders to stop this from happening. Independent Scotland for me means borders and some control over it. There seems a lot of policy that has not been addressed or talked of in public. Think our politicians mat start asking some hard questions of Salmond and his party soon. Figgy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Will there be a border control checkpoint North of Carlisle? Lot of traffic on that road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Knowing the Scots (my old company bought a couple of orgs north of the border so we got to work with a lot of them here and in Scotland) I suspect there will be a toll to get in but you can leave for free! A bit like the Welsh - I would never go west other than by the M50 as I could not stomach paying to visit somewhere where I would be racially abused as soon as they heard my accent. On second thoughts the Scots would charge you to leave too!!! Figgy - my observations on what King Alex was letting himself into more related to the nature of the beast. It is much more 'Benefits Street' than 'Balmoral' ie the vast majority live in social housing and the favourite drinks are vodka and lager. This balance is likely to shift further towards 'Benefits Street' as the wealth deserts King A. Oh by the way I love the Irish and would gladly move across the sea just to reassure you I'm not totally anti our Celtic friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graiglearn Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 To all Scottish people that enjoy fieldsports, REMEMBER the present SCOTTISH goverment is ANTI FIELDSPORTS , they freely admit this fact' so all the devolution is being handed to the same idiots that banned tail docking of working dogs; already have re opened netting stations on prime salmon rivers, gave the vote to some 16 year olds who are only interested in smack and buckfast paid for by beating at shoots, and bringing in the most stupid snaring laws imaginable .while banning legitimate training of young people with air rifles to understand the ways of the countryside ,this was many young persons way into shooting . I am not interested in other countrys views I would only ask ALL SCOTTISH PEOPLE INTERESTED IN FIELDSPORTS,remember your past ,the rabbiting ,the ferreting ,the pigeon shooting ,the crow shooting ,the fox shooting,the pike, the grayling and all usually free plus if lucky the grouse ,stags,partridge pheasants and trout and salmon which are regarded as some of the best in THE WORLD ,Please dont allow these loons any more power or be carefull what you wish for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 If it is close, real close, say for example 50.1% yes, 49.9% no, is that enough of a mandate for the SNP to forge through on their plans independence? Would the other 49.9% accept it and all the uncertainties lying down ?? Is it even possible the SNP might choke on the prospect themselves and settle for Devo Max and staying in the union? It is part of the Edinburgh agreement and the Scotland Act even if it comes down to 1 vote then the result of the referendum is binding. Assuming no legal challenges can be brought under some other unconsidered act, then the result is what it is. Other than some sort of coup there is no way back if the vote is yes. To put that into context only 44% of those who voted in the last Scottish elections actually voted SNP, so it was not a majority share of the vote, but through both the number of seats won and then the secondary proportional representation list votes that we have here, it gave them a strong parliamentary majority and they could therefor vote through what they wanted. A tiny marginal win for the yes side would not dampen their zeal to pursue independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 however it turns out now the damage has been done........if it goes to devo-max then the scots will end up with a better deal than the rest of us........and thats when the hate will really set in......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Norfolk dumpling, pleased to see that you are living up to the secondary part of your name. I am no supporter of the nationalistic Scot's, but your ignorance and bile lets down the vast majority of your countrymen that I have had the pleasure of knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 however it turns out now the damage has been done........if it goes to devo-max then the scots will end up with a better deal than the rest of us........and thats when the hate will really set in......... That really isn't true, it is almost the inverse of the nonsense that Alex Salmond and his cronies say. There are no free lunches in Scotland just the same as there are not any super incentives to live in the south east of England. Things like the free prescription charges are simply offset against other spending denied to other parts of the Scottish NHS; free higher education was offset at the loss of 130,000 higher education places for Scottish kids. In recent years both NHS and education performance has dropped in Scotland. It is an easy headline for both the pro nationalists and the anti Scottish lobby to claim that we all collectively get a great deal north of the border. What opportunities do you think exist in Scotland that don't exist in England? I have asked the same question in reverse to the nationalists here. The answer is nothing fundamentally different at all. If there is devo-max that absolutely guarantees that the block grant as part of the Barnett formula will be revised, if Scotland get full tax raising powers and full control of the welfare budget then the block grant will disappear. There will also have to be many restrictive covenants on exactly what Scotland could do under devo-max as pursuing wildly different welfare and public borrowing policies north and south of the border could not work, it is not compatible with a stable economy. One thing that nationalists do have right is that devo-max doesn't really offer any substantive change, it just increases the burden of administration and governance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graiglearn Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 That really isn't true, it is almost the inverse of the nonsense that Alex Salmond and his cronies say. There are no free lunches in Scotland just the same as there are not any super incentives to live in the south east of England. Things like the free prescription charges are simply offset against other spending denied to other parts of the Scottish NHS; free higher education was offset at the loss of 130,000 higher education places for Scottish kids. In recent years both NHS and education performance has dropped in Scotland. It is an easy headline for both the pro nationalists and the anti Scottish lobby to claim that we all collectively get a great deal north of the border. What opportunities do you think exist in Scotland that don't exist in England? I have asked the same question in reverse to the nationalists here. The answer is nothing fundamentally different at all. If there is devo-max that absolutely guarantees that the block grant as part of the Barnett formula will be revised, if Scotland get full tax raising powers and full control of the welfare budget then the block grant will disappear. There will also have to be many restrictive covenants on exactly what Scotland could do under devo-max as pursuing wildly different welfare and public borrowing policies north and south of the border could not work, it is not compatible with a stable economy. One thing that nationalists do have right is that devo-max doesn't really offer any substantive change, it just increases the burden of administration and governance. Please politics and deals aside you will never convince the numptys down south about the pride in being Scottish ,However put your energy into convincing fellow countrymen to say no as I explained in my post THE PRESENT LOONS IN POWER ARE ANTI FIELDSPORT lets look to get the message across to our own or god knows what will happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Having done a lot of stats stuff for marketing to Scotland and seen detailed geodemographic data I think King Alex may have bitten off rather more than he can chew. I wouldn't want to control that lot. Most of the money comes from elsewhere and may (some already deserting sinking ship) so south or elsewhere in Europe. I'm not sure what he will be left with but he's welcome to it and I fear they will suffer. The worry for me is the exodus to England. You know what they say about the scots - they are like piles and if they come down but go back then no problems but if they come down and stay down they are ****! Put a few more rows of brick on Hadrians wall and quickly. I think this has to be a racist post, I must remember you for the future and stay well clear . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Please politics and deals aside you will never convince the numptys down south about the pride in being Scottish ,However put your energy into convincing fellow countrymen to say no as I explained in my post THE PRESENT LOONS IN POWER ARE ANTI FIELDSPORT lets look to get the message across to our own or god knows what will happen Don't worry, I have done my bit and continue to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Folks, there is no need for any nastiness in either direction, and please remember that what may be typed in jest may not come across that way to all. This has been a great thread, so please let's not cheapen it with needless unpleasantness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowdie2013 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I think you only have to have a swift browse to see where the derogatory posts are coming from........... YES: theres ill feeling on this thread YES: some replys are well constructed and express the writers views YES: Only the people in Scotland get a vote so no need for the English posters to get so het up.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) Please politics and deals aside you will never convince the numptys down south about the pride in being Scottish ,However put your energy into convincing fellow countrymen to say no as I explained in my post THE PRESENT LOONS IN POWER ARE ANTI FIELDSPORT lets look to get the message across to our own or god knows what will happen Problem is you cant survive on pride alone as you realise, BP have publicly just debunked the big fib that there are 20 odd billion barrels of oil left in the Scottish sector of the north sea and have openly said that in 15 years time Scotland will be financially wrecked as the oil revenue dries up, other big business are planning to uproot and move, seems the need for a Scottish passport over a UK / English passport is a better driver than reason?oh and we aren't all numpties and we are starting to get a little fed up of this wave of anti English hysteria to the point that those like me who really did think this issue was for the Scots and the Scots alone are now sat with fingers crossed that the vote goes to the favour of the yes men. KW Edited September 10, 2014 by kdubya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rover Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I think you only have to have a swift browse to see where the derogatory posts are coming from........... YES: theres ill feeling on this thread YES: some replys are well constructed and express the writers views YES: Only the people in Scotland get a vote so no need for the English posters to get so het up.......... You are kidding with your last point, right? You are saying the English have nothing to get het up about? Yet you continue to wonder why some posts are derogatory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crowdie2013 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 No Im not kidding. 300 years of Westminster rule/atrocities/illegal wars/poll tax/bedroom tax etc etc. We have a chance to shape our own future and hopefully can do so given a chance. Its not a slur on English-its a stance against the out of touch government that rules these isles with nothing short of contempt. I truly hope that on the back of this, your parliament sorts itself out starts maybe trying to improve things in your country as for 300 years it certainly hasn't managed to do it with the united kingdom. You are kidding with your last point, right? You are saying the English have nothing to get het up about? Yet you continue to wonder why some posts are derogatory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graiglearn Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Problem is you cant survive on pride alone as you realise, BP have publicly just debunked the big fib that there are 20 odd billion barrels of oil left in the Scottish sector of the north sea and have openly said that in 15 years time Scotland will be financially wrecked as the oil revenue dries up, other big business are planning to uproot and move, seems the need for a Scottish passport over a UK / English passport is a better driver than reason?oh and we aren't all numpties and we are starting to get a little fed up of this wave of anti English hysteria to the point that those like me who really did think this issue was for the Scots and the Scots alone are now sat with fingers crossed that the vote goes to the favour of the yes men. KW are you reading the post I made ? I AM SAYING NO , on the previous stupidity of the history against fieldsports in Scotland ,no one wants to rattle your cage I am mearly trying to rally SCOTTISH FIELDSPORTS to realise the danger of allowing an ANTI FIELDSPORTS GOVERMENT IN SCOTLAND WITH MORE POWERS .Now you stick your oar in with oil and passports ,being a stupid Scotsmanexplain WHAT the He## IS THAT TO DO WITH FIELDSPORTS .then you wonder why -ve opinion from the south offends ,LOOK before you accuse I am SCOTTISH BUT ALSO BRITISH JUST THE SAME AS I DONT QUESTION YOUR ENTITLEMENT TO BE ENGLISH AND BRITISH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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