Trees, Boundary and Council meh!

[Muddy Funker]

Hi Guys,

We recently contacted the council regarding some trees beyond the back wall in our house that need a trim as they are blocking light to ours and the neighbours back gardens. I was going to chop them myself but then the neighbour mentioned the council might get precious if they were protected or some other reason. So I figured it would probably be a good idea to pose the question as then they could do the work and dispose of everything leaving me hassle free.

After being directed from pillar to post we had an email saying someone would be round to assess and would contact us within 10 days. Well today on the 10th day we have a letter that I've taken a photo of rather than typing it out. It's kind of backfired as they are stating it's our responsibility.

 

I've just paid for the title plan as our copy was dire and it's a little unclear, it looks as though the red line is indeed beyond our boundary wall and encompasses some of the pavement. These trees are beyond the wall of our back garden which I assumed would mean not our responsibility. There is basically a footpath that no one ever uses that passes the back of our terrace of houses the trees all grow at the side of this path but outside of our boundary wall.

I've taken some photos from our side of the wall and included with the letter they sent is a photo they took, the footpath is there pretty much right of centre. My house is the end terrace with the greenhouse you can see.

What do you think? Is there ever an instance where a boundary can be beyond a wall? Surely it's down to highways or verges to sort this?

Here are lots of photos that pretty much explain what I'm trying to say, PS turf is now laid and fence painted :-)

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2014 by Muddy Funker

[bear-uk]

I would go onto the council website and see if there is a TPO (Tree preservation order) on said trees. If not then crack on with your nail file and there will be light.

[figgy]

 

Boundaries are a minefield as who can say exactly where it lays with out reference points or measurements from datums.

 

Now you have a letter in writing from the council take as that is your boundary. Get merry with the saw till your hearts content.

 

You now have proof of what they class as the outer boundary to your properties.

 

Figgy

Edited October 1, 2014 by figgy

[TIGHTCHOKE]

^{Easier to cut down when not in leaf, but you appear to have 14 days!}

[Imperfection]

There are houses near me with a similar footpath running at the rear for access to back gardens and their boundary extends to the outer edge of the path. A friend had one and at some point previous to him buying the house, a conifer had been planted presumably to stop kids using the path as shortcut.

 

His deeds showed his true boundary so he cut the tree down,moved the fence out 4ft and broke up th concrete path.Access was never compromised as it were end terrace.

[loriusgarrulus]

Bonfire night coming up or a nice bit of fire wood once its dried out.

[The Mighty Prawn]

The red line is just highlighting your boundary which is the black line, the boundary does seem to follow the outline on the plane so assuming it was built with the outside face on the boundary then the trees are not on your property and not your responsibility - that said the only way to be sure will probably involve lots of cash and frustration so basically sneak out in the night and help them down!!

[shaun4860]

Knock your wall down and rebuild on the other side of the tree,

 

They are saying its your land

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Knock your wall down and rebuild on the other side of the tree,

 

They are saying its your land

 

 

That's the best yet!

[silver pigeon69]

Knock your wall down and rebuild on the other side of the tree,

 

They are saying its your land

 

+1 you have it in writing that it is YOUR land

[zx10mike]

tell the council that the trees are likely to damage your wall if left un checked and that any damage the will be liable for.those trees are far to close, have a look for any cracks even hair line.

[Velocette]

This is what I do for a living. Just trim the overhanging foliage back so that it won't impede path users then do just what you like with the trees. They are yours to fell or maintain as you please.

[peck]

It looks to me as if the path is only for use as the rear entrance to yours and the adjoining properties and therefore belongs to the property owners, if so do the residents of these other properties ever use the path.?

either way get the chainsaw out.

Edited September 30, 2014 by peck

[955i]

As long as there is no TPO you are allowed to cut anything hanging over your boundary.

 

HTH

[Muddy Funker]

Thanks for the answers so far guys appreciated!

 

What I guess I'm getting at is that I want to put the onus on the council to do the work of bringing down the height,I can take care of the lower stuff encroaching into mine and the neighbours garden.

 

Reason being is the ball ache it will be disposing of it all,I don't really have anywhere in the garden to burn it and it'll be loads of trips to the dump to get rid.

 

Also the child in me doesn't appreciate being told I have 14 days to do it,considering no one would ever have known unless I'd told them about it.

 

I might just write back saying the trees are not within my boundary therefore not my problem and see where that takes me.

[Katzenjammer]

The black line is the extent of your property not the red as has been said. The red is just to highlight the boundary line.

 

It strikes me that in these days of budgetary constraint that the council may be trying trying to pass the buck. If you have not already done so contact your local ward councillor and get them on board. They are an interface between you and the council. We revile these people but believe me making a friend of them does help oil the wheels and helps things to go your way. Many look for success stories where they the elected representative can be shown to be justifying their election to those that voted for them (or didn't).

 

Have your case/arguments prepared and ready.

 

Have you been in the house from new? Was the wall already built by the developers or did you build it. If the former then they will have been working to estate plans. I expect the council will have adopted the new estate at some point in the distant past and thus my thinking is that if the wall existed then then they accepted it as was and any areas that fell outside the boundary of occupiers properties fell into their responsibility?

 

Have you any historic photos that show how these trees have grown over the years. Were the trees there when you moved in or are they self seedings? Sycamores for example can grow very fast given the right conditions. What are these trees? Unless checked they will only grow bigger and may threaten foundations, drainage pipes etc.

 

Do the developers have the original plans of the estate. It may show whether these were ornamental trees put in the green the estate?

[scotslad]

Most councils are skint mowadays so doutful they would do any tree work unless on H&S grounds (atleast with out a fight)

 

1 other word of caution unless u are fairly handy with a chain saw and experienced in felling trees i would reccommend u leave the chain saw in the shed.

 

From the photos they look like ash, which is a brittle timber and will snap off on u if u give it a chance and fall any way it wants too.

I notice a couple of bigger ones are leaning even if it is safe to fell the direction of the lean they could be almost at a steep enough angle (depending where the weight is above) to 'barbers chair' on u, which can be very dangerous even on trees as small as that. Most americain cutters /'lumberjacks' are killed by trees barbers chairiing on them

And the smaller coppiced tree u will also have to pick the correct stems to fell in which order as they will all be tangled up up top with the branches

 

An experienced cutter would do it no problems with no damage, not a big or bad job from the photos atleast, i have no idea wot experience u have but u could very easily cause more damage than u'd save by getting a pro in, even if he just dropped the trees and u tidied up.

 

Stack the decent sized timber 3-4" up neatly at the road side as if u want it, u'd be amazed how quick some thieving toerag will nick it (which is ideal for u)

[brett1985]

I would write back to the council and ask them to catogorically state, in writing, that those trees are within your boundary and on your land.

 

if they do that then the cost of someone cutting them down is a small price to pay when weighed up against the land you have just gained.

 

i would then knock down the existing wall and rebuild it to the very edge of your "confirmed" boundary as soon as possible.

 

[maxie]

My house is very similar to yours with a back alley/footpath to the rear for access to the rear of the properties.My deeds state that each owner owns his little bit of the alley/footpath but I can`t knock down the wall to make my garden larger because that would impede access.All the residents of the terrace are responsible for keeping the alley clear not the council.The alley/footpath is not classed as a public footpath.In the past some residents have asked the council to cut down trees and have received similar letters to you giving fourteen days notice.In one case a resident refused to cut down a tree and the council sent contractors to lop the tree and billed him for the work which he had to pay.On your map the red line stays inside the black line on all your property except the alley/footpath,that is not a mistake, that has been done deliberately.Give them a ring and sort it out,they may have made a mistake whoever made the site inspection would be the person to speak to.

[Muddy Funker]

Again thanks for the replies, I told the guys at work last night and the p*** take I'm receiving is merciless. They love the fact I've instigated this and now being given a 14 day deadline, it is quite funny I suppose.

I've been in the house around 5 years so wall ect is as it was when I moved in. It's been suggested that the boundary actually extends to the far edge of the footpath and would be the same for each house, so each of us possibly owns the bit of footpath covering the width of the house.

I'm not sure where I'd stand claiming my bit as that would then block off the path, I'm sure that wouldn't be allowed. I'd gain a couple of feet but the work removing the trees then moving the wall would cost a fortune and it's money I don't have.

I'll tidy the path as requested then think about how I'm going to bring height down whether I do it or pay someone. It looks like it's falling to me though.

Cheers guys.

Edit: Thanks maxie I was typing as you replied, the guys at work though the laughter said we all probably own a bit of the footpath.

Another Edit: I've just taken another look and although in the photos the trees look huge it's only really the height that's the issue they are fairly flimsy from about halfway up, I think I'll just go slow and take the height down gradually, no chainsaws :-)

Edited October 1, 2014 by Muddy Funker

[scotslad]

If ur taking them down by hand spend a bit of cash and buy a decent 'Sliky saw' cut like a knife throu warm butter, but watch very sharp.

U'll be surprised when u get up to the branches they will be bigger and heavier than u think

 

2 top tips put an undercut on any branches ur cutting to save it ripping the bark when it falls.

And if ur using a ladder remember that branches tend to rise higher when wieght took off them, lop the end of the branch of and the branch u supporting it on rises higher than the ladder, sounds silly but can easily happen i've done it

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well your 14 days are fast running out!

Edited October 1, 2014 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Muddy Funker]

Cheers guys, I think I'll aim to do it on day 15.

Little victories, I hate being told what to do