grrclark Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Rodp, i don't know exactly what options are available under the law, but as I said in my first post in this thread there should be some investigation into how a trial can take place in his absence as justice for the victims should take priority. One thing is certain though, we cannot put a man with severe mental illness in the dock, it would undermine the trial and make any conviction unsafe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Janner would have been the one LEAST likely to tell the truth. Just an assumption based on his standing in life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Rodp, i don't know exactly what options are available under the law, but as I said in my first post in this thread there should be some investigation into how a trial can take place in his absence as justice for the victims should take priority. One thing is certain though, we cannot put a man with severe mental illness in the dock, it would undermine the trial and make any conviction unsafe. Something should be done though, even if only to bring some satisfaction to the victims and to bring out the lacking in the cps. I don't know what though. Perhaps as suggested an enquiry, even if left open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 I agree Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1961 Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Still a Lord I see should be striped of title didn't look to bad on news clip what is it with our so called upper class the mind boggles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Still a Lord I see should be striped of title didn't look to bad on news clip what is it with our so called upper class the mind boggles It's not just the upper class, they are just more newsworthy. The conservative estimate is 2% of the population have an interest in paedophilia. An alarmingly high number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose man Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Supposedly has advanced dementia, doesn't know what day of the week it is. I wonder when he drew his last House of Lords expenses ? Less than 12 months ago I read !! Just about got dementia in time , call me an old sync..!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Also remember that until he he has been tried in a court of law, rather than by PW forum, he is innocent. I would also suggest that if you have had to deal with someone suffering dementia, you will know that there is little chance of getting any real evidence from them. Saying that, there are defendents who refuse to take the stand and the evidence of other people is sufficient to convict. The problem in this and similar cases of course is that he is not electing not to stand trial since, legally, he is unfit to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) If you read the link it mentions that some time ago an officer was told NOT to pursue him and NOT to search his house. Perhaps the person responsible for issuing that order could be asked under oath ( for what good that would do ) why they issued it in the hope pressure may come to bear and then we can get the ball rolling. It just takes one card to fall to undermine the structure. We've got to start somewhere. The worst thing about all this is that it is the establishment investigating the establishment; no a good place to start, but we have to start somewhere. The next worst thing is that good people do nothing. All it takes.............. Edited April 17, 2015 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Also remember that until he he has been tried in a court of law, rather than by PW forum, he is innocent. I would also suggest that if you have had to deal with someone suffering dementia, you will know that there is little chance of getting any real evidence from them. Saying that, there are defendents who refuse to take the stand and the evidence of other people is sufficient to convict. The problem in this and similar cases of course is that he is not electing not to stand trial since, legally, he is unfit to do so. Jimmy Saville didn't stand trial, nor Cyril Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Radical opinion - Let the authorities concentrate on finding and prosecuting any and all of these disgusting perverts, those that escape trial by death or dementia have been lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Exactly, but the evidence has been subject to scrutiny as it should be in this case. Also, there is no process to "try" a dead person which doesn't apply here. I would like to see something done to get at the truth behind what he did and how the investigation was stopped but a conventional criminal trial is probably impossible. What is probably more relevant is to uncover any accomplices and bring them to court if they are still alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 There is an enquiry about to start. Hopefully he will get a mention. It does stink, along with all the others who have got away with evil crimes, but if he really is gaga then I see no point in wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds on a court case which may not conclude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Yes, a few years before Janner was diagnosed with dementia he was saying that former Nazis should face no restriction to prosecution due to age or illness. Funny that. If true then it is disgusting. Establishment looking after their own? A case of 'if I go I'll take you, you and you with me'? I wonder if there were any former Gestapo/concentration camp officials let off on similar grounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Supposedly has advanced dementia, doesn't know what day of the week it is. I'll bet he still remembers his wrong doings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 It's not just the upper class, they are just more newsworthy. The conservative estimate is 2% of the population have an interest in paedophilia. An alarmingly high number. They were saying 5% on the radio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 There must be files and papers that are still not being shown to us, police officers have not yet been given clear assurances about the Official Secrets Act. We need a Wikileaks style discosure about all the scum and the scum that protected them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Vince - a bit more like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 There must be files and papers that are still not being shown to us, police officers have not yet been given clear assurances about the Official Secrets Act. We need a Wikileaks style discosure about all the scum and the scum that protected them. Yep, couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted April 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 How can anyone be tried and found guilty of historic sex offences when there is no physical evidence beyond victim testimony? if there ever was any it has been lost in the sands of time! Nope! It can only have been decided on a question of one persons word against their accusers , but as we have seen, it can and has been done, people have recently been found guilty and imprisoned.......on what evidence? It can only be the weight of victims testimony! .......because the accused will always claim innocence and plead not guilty! In Greville Janners case there are over 20 victims on who's behalf the police have taken testimony and in consequence identified there is a case to answer, if on microscopic investigation of their complaint/testimony nothing is found to disprove their allegations? as has been said already there must be a way to persue justice for the victims. If after thorough investigation 20 people are telling you under oath it's raining outside, and one is saying "no its dry"...who would you believe and what would your verdict be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 All we (and the victims) can hope for is that Justice Lowell Goddard has been given teeth, is prepared to bite, her final report is published in full and the CPS act without favour where appropriate based on her findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 The 'historic child abuse' enquiry should be of particular interest to shooters as Hamilton (Dunblane) was allegedly supplying little boys to 'members of the establishment' which was why the Chief Constable overruled the FEO's decision to refuse a gun licence. Hamilton was a scout leader with a reputation for kiddie fiddling. Looking forward to this. Perhaps handguns will be reinstated??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 The 'historic child abuse' enquiry should be of particular interest to shooters as Hamilton (Dunblane) was allegedly supplying little boys to 'members of the establishment' which was why the Chief Constable overruled the FEO's decision to refuse a gun licence. Hamilton was a scout leader with a reputation for kiddie fiddling. Looking forward to this. Yep, particularly as one of the 'names' that has been muted is 'Cullen' as a 'Friend of Queen Victoria School'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 The police have suggested that there is a process by which the victims can obtain justice and that appears to be to go through an enquiry under oath where the outcome can be a guilty verdict. My cynicism suggests that to do so would open a legal challenge to compensation and potentially expose a bit more of the truth. IF there is nothing to hide why allow situations where you can be interpreted by many as hiding the truth ? The depth and breadth of this apparent cover -up is beginning to worry me, as what else may be seen to be in the establishments interests and is at best unknown and, at worst illegal ? Although I have say that pedophilia is about as low as it can ever get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 The depth and breadth of this apparent cover -up is beginning to worry me, as what else may be seen to be in the establishments interests and is at best unknown and, at worst illegal ? Although I have say that pedophilia is about as low as it can ever get. Just put all the names of the political elite and establishment peers on a cork board, and play a game similar to pin the tail on the donkey and we would not be far off the mark. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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