Fisherman Mike Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Smoke for long enough and you WILL get cancer Drink for long enough and you WILL get sclerosis Walk down the middle lane of the M1 in total Darkness and you WILL get run over. Smuggle Drugs in Indonesia and you WILL get shot Failure to understand the risks is ignorance, which in the eyes of the law is no excuse. Do I think its wrong? Fundamentally No I don't. Deal with the Devil and you must be prepared to pay the asking price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Taken from wiki Ironically, Indonesia is well noted as "a strong advocate against the death penalty for its citizens abroad." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linny Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Taken from wiki Ironically, Indonesia is well noted as "a strong advocate against the death penalty for its citizens abroad." they like to shoot them for themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Being a simple kind of person, take that how you like, I know that if I put my fingers in the fire I get burnt. I know what is right and what is wrong, you dont need much of an education to get those simple things into your head. They knew exactly what the results would be if (when)they got caught. They played the game and lost. Did they really expect a slap on the wrists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 In Iran you get the death sentance for adultery.... but thats the law so thats fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 In Iran you get the death sentance for adultery.... but thats the law so thats fine. In their country yes it is. We might disagree whole heartedly with that, and I do, but it is their country and they have a right to impose whatever laws that they wish. If you want to be an adulterer don't go to Iran to do it is the simple message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I couldnt disagree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I couldnt disagree more. I disagree with the death penalty for adultery, I disagree that they use stoning to administer that penalty, but we are not the global guardians of morality and right and wrong. There are some things where we should take an interventionist stance, but not this. What do you suppose could or should be done about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 In their country yes it is. We might disagree whole heartedly with that, and I do, but it is their country and they have a right to impose whatever laws that they wish. If you want to be an adulterer don't go to Iran to do it is the simple message. I nearly spat my carrot sticks with humous out of my mouth reading that, "If you want to be an adulterer don't go to Iran" haha, it's hardly like people grow up and want to be one surely "when I grow up, I want to commit adultery" To put some balance to it, states have the ability to make laws - and in that, the death penalty. For an offence that can see an end to a life prematurely and soliciting it, death penalty seems harsh but fair - a good deterrent for some, and a final answer and lack of ability to commit the crime again for others... But to cheat on your wife/husband doesn't directly affect one or more people being killed, and isn't exactly a crime against the state - merely a fictional deity. Thus can't see justification to death sentence being needed there. The other problem with the whole situation with these killings in Bali is that now a large volume of people are seeing organised crime offenders whom are guilty of drugs offences as martyrs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I def wouldnt want to pick the wrong suitcase up at that airport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I def wouldnt want to pick the wrong suitcase up at that airport also makes you think twice in certain countries about buying locally made souvenirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deker Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 In Iran you get the death sentance for adultery.... but thats the law so thats fine. You seem to be slightly concerned about adultery I understsnd what you mean but im not an absolutist so, quick question - would you apply that to ALL drug traffickers? Do you make a distinction between, say, heroin and cannabis? Or smuggled illegal alcohol and Viagra for that matter? Heroin, meth and to some extent cocaine can ruin lives, but so can alcohol, so a government's arbitrary regulation on which is legal seems an odd basis on which to take a life to me. That's a good question, is it only a certain class of drugs (or quantity) with the death penalty in Indonesia or all of them, where do they draw the line? as much as I support the death penalty I wouldn't like to think someone got shot for carrying something that was legal in the country they've just left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 http://news.sky.com/story/1473963/eight-drug-prisoners-executed-by-firing-squad Should they have been executed, Yes did they know the risks Yes will it have a deterrent effect? Very doubtful What is the right way to handle this type of thing? Leave it to the government of the country in question to decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I nearly spat my carrot sticks with humous out of my mouth reading that, "If you want to be an adulterer don't go to Iran" haha, it's hardly like people grow up and want to be one surely "when I grow up, I want to commit adultery" To put some balance to it, states have the ability to make laws - and in that, the death penalty. For an offence that can see an end to a life prematurely and soliciting it, death penalty seems harsh but fair - a good deterrent for some, and a final answer and lack of ability to commit the crime again for others... But to cheat on your wife/husband doesn't directly affect one or more people being killed, and isn't exactly a crime against the state - merely a fictional deity. Thus can't see justification to death sentence being needed there. I don't imagine many put adultery on their ambitions list, well not until they are married anyways........ Incidentally I did chat to a man in a pub once who had a thing for Iranian women, so it was maybe on his bucket list. Quite why he felt the need to share that with random strangers I don't know. I think that the death penalty is too harsh for such a thing too, but what I am advocating is that it is within the rights of the country to decide what they think. If there was a vote in the UK for the return of the death penalty I would vote against it, not because I am against the ultimate punishment, but because I have too much doubt for the potential of error to happen during the conviction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 As with FalconFN, i fundamentally oppose the death penalty. Here are some facts on the death penalty from a credible authors. A July 2009 study titled "DO EXECUTIONS LOWER HOMICIDE RATES?: THE VIEWS OF LEADING CRIMINOLOGISTS" by Michael L. Radelet and Traci L. LaCock, demonstrates an overwhelming consensus among criminologists that the empirical research conducted on the deterrence question strongly supports the conclusion that the death penalty does not add deterrent effects to those already achieved by long imprisonment. a study of the deterrence value of the death penalty focused on whether the death penalty deterred the murder of police officers. The researchers surveyed a thirteen year period of police homicides. The study concluded " we find no consistent evidence that capital punishment influenced police killings during the 1976-1989 period. . . . [P]olice do not appear to have been afforded an added measure of protection against homicide by capital punishment." (W. Bailey and R. Peterson, Murder, Capital Punishment, and Deterrence: A Review of the Evidence and an Examination of Police Killings, 50 Journal of Social Issues 53, 71 1994) so don't let facts stand in the way gordon, you might learn something I feel that as a caring human, it is my business. Just because we don't live in the same country as they do does not mean i should not care, that is ridiculous. I do not believe that the death penalty can be justified. And the killers who are released and then go on to kill again? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16638227 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2421724/Revealed-The-murderers-given-life-jail-freed-kill-again.html etc etc https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+released+killers+kill+again%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 The death penalty never stopped murderers from killing people .... but it certainly stopped them from doing it twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) Les*1066 - are those facts from credible authors? If not, the thought Police will seek you out. I still don't understand why people in this country agonise about what is happening in another country. There is no way their views are going to be acted upon and it invites ridicule from the countries involved. They are quite entitled to say mind your own business, don't visit our country or put your own house in order before preaching to us. Edited April 29, 2015 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytree Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 No, yes, no, no. The death penalty has no place in a civilised society. I can understand it is an emotive subject but if one of the major parties in the forthcoming election was to announce on their manifesto that we would have a return to hanging for murder and kiddie fiddling and the birch for thieves/violent offenders, what percentage of the population would vote for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobbyathome Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 In Iran you get the death sentance for adultery.... but thats the law so thats fine. well if you know that dont **** someone elses mrs in that country its there laws even if it is wrong to us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyh Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I reckon that if you dont like or agree with the laws of certain countries- Just don't go there? My youngest lad got caught up with Cannabis when he was 15. The dealers give it away for free when it starts. That took a year to sort out and I wouldn't wish any parent to go through what we did. We still dont know or understand where we went wrong bringing him up,his brother is now a Phycologist. We treated them both the same. He, fortunately has done alright after his 'hiccup' As for the dealers, the money is big, they know the score. After they have been shot stick them on poles so everyone can see what happens to drug dealers. They are pure scum getting drugs into young people. They can rot in Hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 well if you know that dont **** someone elses mrs in that country its there laws even if it is wrong to us What if the lady in question was trapped in a violent arranged marriage and you had fallen deeply in love with her well before the arrangement? Sometimes people do stuff without engaging their big or little brains, rather than premeditated actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) I can understand it is an emotive subject but if one of the major parties in the forthcoming election was to announce on their manifesto that we would have a return to hanging for murder and kiddie fiddling and the birch for thieves/violent offenders, what percentage of the population would vote for them? I think you would be surprised, I genuinely believe we would never again get a majority for capital punishment, as like it or not we cannot trust our judicial system to get it right all the time,far to many past mistakes give me that opinion. As to the original post I have no prob whatsoever with another country carrying out that countries (not ours) punishment, my only argument with them is why did it take a decade that is the inhumane bit to me. KW Edited April 29, 2015 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Les*1066 - are those facts from credible authors? If not, the thought Police will seek you out.I still don't understand why people in this country agonise about what is happening in another country. There is no way their views are going to be acted upon and it invites ridicule from the countries involved.They are quite entitled to say mind your own business, don't visit our country or put your own house in order before preaching to us. I think its called common humanity, empathy and a interest in the wider world. I haven't seen anyone on this thread preach to another country, we were asked if it was right and we have given our thoughts. If the Indonesian government read PW then perhaps they will laugh, but somehow I think we are pretty low on their to-do list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Les*1066 - are those facts from credible authors? If not, the thought Police will seek you out. If you can't trust the Home Office, who can you trust. And as for the 'thought police', well, 'nuff said really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytree Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I think you would be surprised, I genuinely believe we would never again get a majority for capital punishment, as like it or not we cannot trust our judicial system to get it right all the time,far to many past mistakes give me that opinion. As to the original post I have no prob whatsoever with another country carrying out that countries (not ours) punishment, my only argument with them is why did it take a decade that is the inhumane bit to me. KW I would imagine that if the right cases were quoted, IE the murderers of Lee Rigby to start with, many people would support that. I've said before that burglars should get 10 years for a 1st offence and no parole. 25 years if they're stupid enough to do it again. Some people are coerced into crime because of poverty, threats of violence etc and that has to be taken into account at trial but the majority of drug traffickers and dealers are doing it for financial gain. As others have said, the death penalty has no remission and a miscarriage of justice is possible but not in every case. I would love to see a countrywide poll on crime and what ordinary people would consider as a fitting punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Bu Le Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 What if the lady in question was trapped in a violent arranged marriage and you had fallen deeply in love with her well before the arrangement? Sometimes people do stuff without engaging their big or little brains, rather than premeditated actions. Barbara Cartland comes to mind........c'mon how often do you think that happens. It's not all Mr D'Arcy y'know. What has it got to do with the op anyhoos. Getting back to the op, in some airports, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore there are signs........"Dado is death" pays your money and takes your chance. It is spelt out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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