democracy in europe

[Dick]

Why should I and other tax payers subsidise career benefit scroungers. I have never taken any benefits. Been redundant twice, divorced etc. Always stood on my own two feet.....moved to where the work is and made sure that my expenditure is less than income.

I have no problem helping those in dire need but unless disabled, benefits should only be a short term support to help the claimant become self supporting.

[deadeye18]

Why should I and other tax payers subsidise career benefit scroungers. I have never taken any benefits. Been redundant twice, divorced etc. Always stood on my own two feet.....moved to where the work is and made sure that my expenditure is less than income.

I have no problem helping those in dire need but unless disabled, benefits should only be a short term support to help the claimant become self supporting.

amen to that!this is what ive been banging on about,ive always worked,never claimed anything,never bought owt on tick and payed my way,not on a lot of money but now going to have to cough up more while those that do nowt keep doing nowt.Its not right its B.S.

[krugerandsmith]

 

Must admit i never understand how this all works

 

I read somewhere that greece is 575 million in debt which is 47K per person and 174% off GDP, BUT UK is 9.7 trillion, 160K per person and 400% off GDP in debt

 

Do find it hard to believe UK's not in more trouble.

 

Not going to say some people are not struggling but in reality we have never had it so good, everyone has a car fancy phone, big massive tv and very few folk will be genuinely struggling for food. But compared to wot previous generations had to live with even just 50-70 years ago we shouldnae really moan.

 

Agreed but. The U/K is £4.8 trillion in debt doubled since Gordon Brown ..... £5ooo per second growth .....= to every citizen owing £25000. .... George doing a good job I don't think so.

[littlerob]

I dont know politics or what but I suspect that Greece default and go's belly up it will damage the euro as a currency so the rest of the eu is concerned that it may effect there wealths as a country as most eu countries use the euro. And it makes the currency drop by a fair it could have a domino efecct across the eu by example. If the euro as a currency is worth half of now value that could mean the rest of the countrys could lose there welths

Edited July 6, 2015 by littlerob

[Dekers]

 

Agreed but. The U/K is £4.8 trillion in debt doubled since Gordon Brown ..... £5ooo per second growth .....= to every citizen owing £25000. .... George doing a good job I don't think so.

 

 

We are indeed getting further into debt as a country, I don't see anyone denying that.

 

What George has done is slow that rate down considerably compared to Gordons lot. To be fair it wasn't all Gordon, there was a very astute numpty before him who handed over the reigns at just the right time so Gordon would get all the flack!

 

There is no overnight fix for our economic mess, which was, without doubt, caused by the world situation AND labours spend, spend, spend, policy!

 

But George is heading in the right direction, labour were heading in the wrong direction.

 

That is about the best that can be said.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Dekers

[MrM]

I think he Greek Prime Minister is being a lot more clever than we think. He was elected on a mandate to reduce austerity, and maintain the loans from the EU. At the beginning of last week, it was obvious this wasn't going to happen with the conditions for the bail outs that were set (unsurprisingly). So if he had said yes to them, he would be branded a traitor by the Greek electorate, and would probably have had to resign. Now by calling the referendum and pushing for a NO vote he has in effect got the Greek public behind him, and has rallied them with a valiant "follow me and we'll take on the EU". However I am sure he is completely aware that the bailouts will ONLY come with the conditions, but now he can accept them, and go back to the Greek populous with a "we tried fighting together, but we were overcome" or something like that, and will now look like a martyred hero in the eyes of his people, Bit like a latter day William Wallace!

[Dekers]

 

Must admit i never understand how this all works

 

I read somewhere that greece is 575 million in debt which is 47K per person and 174% off GDP, BUT UK is 9.7 trillion, 160K per person and 400% off GDP in debt

 

Do find it hard to believe UK's not in more trouble.

 

Not going to say some people are not struggling but in reality we have never had it so good, everyone has a car fancy phone, big massive tv and very few folk will be genuinely struggling for food. But compared to wot previous generations had to live with even just 50-70 years ago we shouldnae really moan.

 

Something is wrong there, if they were ONLY 575 Million (Euro or £) in debt they would be jumping for joy!

 

That is peanuts in the world market.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Dekers

[overandunder2012]

what, and cripple our economy too? Well done.

you really think austeritys a good thing i suppose it is if it isnt happening to you

[Vince Green]

George has done a fine job up to now and deserves a pat on the back for not letting us go belly up BUT i think putting up council house rents up by 70quid a week for any Household earning 30k or more a year is a step way too far.Trouble ahead me thinks.

It depends on the area. Council house rents in London are ridiculously low. People are paying a quarter of the commercial rate. which is why subletting is rife The only problem I can see is how they can assess fairly what a household income is because people are going to pull all sort of strokes.

[Lloyd90]

It depends on the area. Council house rents in London are ridiculously low. People are paying a quarter of the commercial rate. which is why subletting is rife The only problem I can see is how they can assess fairly what a household income is because people are going to pull all sort of strokes.

 

I don't know a lot about it, what's the crack with this subsidised rent etc ?

 

As a youngish single young man, (at uni atm) , when I leave and need to get a place I don't see anyone subsidising my rent. If only they would.

I get a student maintenance LOAN which has to be re-paid to even live somewhere whilst I study. So who's getting subsidised any why ?

[Danger-Mouse]

 

I don't know a lot about it, what's the crack with this subsidised rent etc ?

 

As a youngish single young man, (at uni atm) , when I leave and need to get a place I don't see anyone subsidising my rent. If only they would.

I get a student maintenance LOAN which has to be re-paid to even live somewhere whilst I study. So who's getting subsidised any why ?

 

As far as I`m aware council housing is only available now if you`re seriously ill, pregnant or homeless. The rules changed sometime around new year.

[ordnance]

They want their cake and eat it, looking other countries taxpayers to bail them out and not pay the money back. Don't give them any more money, let the economy collapses, they will be back begging the EU to help and agreeing to the EU terms.

[FalconFN]

 

Must admit i never understand how this all works

 

I read somewhere that greece is 575 million in debt which is 47K per person and 174% off GDP, BUT UK is 9.7 trillion, 160K per person and 400% off GDP in debt

 

Do find it hard to believe UK's not in more trouble.

 

Not going to say some people are not struggling but in reality we have never had it so good, everyone has a car fancy phone, big massive tv and very few folk will be genuinely struggling for food. But compared to wot previous generations had to live with even just 50-70 years ago we shouldnae really moan.

Neither do I but I don't think those figures are right. Although our debt is much bigger in terms of £, when related to % of GDP ours is almost half that of Greece (ours is 90% of GDP). Added to that we have low unemployment, a growing econony and a working plan to pay it off - Greece has something like a quarter of its population out of work and no convincing way to pay back what it owes.

 

We are in a pretty healthy position considering our situation a few years ago, we are doing better than most other countries in the world.

[grrclark]

 

Agreed but. The U/K is £4.8 trillion in debt doubled since Gordon Brown ..... £5ooo per second growth .....= to every citizen owing £25000. .... George doing a good job I don't think so.

You keep posting this as though it is news. It is simple arithmetic, if the government keep spending more than they earn (fiscal deficit) then the total amount of debt will increase.

 

Confusingly you also post that you think the current governments plans to reduce the deficit is bad, i.e. to stop spending more than we earn in order that we can run a fiscal surplus to actually pay down the debt.

 

The only way to get rid of the debt is to get to a point where we spend less than we earn, i.e. the current government plan, or to have inflation in the economy that makes the historical debt figure worth less.

 

What is it you really want?

Edited July 6, 2015 by grrclark

[poontang]

They want their cake and eat it, looking other countries taxpayers to bail them out and not pay the money back. Don't give them any more money, let the economy collapses, they will be back begging the EU to help and agreeing to the EU terms.

 

No they won't.

 

They'll almost certainly turn to Russia or China for help. Which would be a massive hammer blow to the EU, and the one thing that scares them ****less.

[Vince Green]

 

As far as I`m aware council housing is only available now if you`re seriously ill, pregnant or homeless. The rules changed sometime around new year.

The big gripe around here (about twelve mile north of Heathrow) is that the council is OBLIGED by law to house Asylum Seekers immediately. They go straight to the top of the queue and people see this - its hard not to!

 

So all these stories about families coming straight off the plane and straight into a house is literally true and it causes massive resentment.

[ordnance]

They'll almost certainly turn to Russia or China for help. Which would be a massive hammer blow to the EU, and the one thing that scares them ****less.

 

And you think Russia or China are going to put in billions that they will never get back. What's stopping them now putting money into Greek banks to help prevent them collapsing. ? Russia and China have enough problems of their own with taking on that basket case.

 

A Russian Crisis With No End In Sight, Thanks To Low Oil Prices And Sanctions.

 

 

Hong Kong tumbles to biggest single-day fall since 2011; Chinese shares close mixed as stimulus boost short-lived.

 

[Laird Lugton]

And you think Russia or China are going to put in billions that they will never get back. What's stopping them now putting money into Greek banks to help prevent them collapsing. ? Russia and China have enough problems of their own with taking on that basket case.

 

 

Really? Use google and you'll soon see Putin is taking a very keen interest, he has a score to settle after the Ukraine...

[ordnance]

 

Really? Use google and you'll soon see Putin is taking a very keen interest, he has a score to settle after the Ukraine.

If that is the case good let Russia waist their money instead of the EU Greece will be no big loss. You can find whatever you want on Google to back whatever view you have. Yes Really.

 

 

My feeling is that the Greek government is playing the 'Russian card' in order to improve its bargaining position in the current negotiations," says Manos Karagiannis, a Greece-born specialist on Russian foreign policy at King's College, London.

"But it will be very difficult for Athens to distance itself from the EU and Nato."

Edited July 6, 2015 by ordnance

[poontang]

If that is the case good let Russia waist their money instead of the EU Greece will be no big loss. You can find whatever you want on Google to back whatever view you have. Yes Really.

 

 

Greece would be a massive loss to the Eurozone, and it would be catastrophic to the EU if they were to leave the project altogether.

 

Does your Greek born specialist on Russian foreign policy go on to explain why it would be so difficult for Greece to distance itself from the EU and NATO?

[clakk]

Greece will take the rouble at the drop of hat ,its economy ran on the eu handouts and now nanny Merckel says nein,mine purse is kaput .she sold her country on the fallacy Greece will be a good boy and pay its bills.But we have all seen this is a bucket of fantasy ,theyre still trying to draw money from their bank accounts but theres nothing left.of course theyl take Putins money.its a big sweaty bum waved at europe for daring to want paying back.Russian tourists will spend money to sunbathe as much as we do and Greece dont have much else to sell .

[FalconFN]

Greece will take the rouble at the drop of hat ,its economy ran on the eu handouts and now nanny Merckel says nein,mine purse is kaput .she sold her country on the fallacy Greece will be a good boy and pay its bills.But we have all seen this is a bucket of fantasy ,theyre still trying to draw money from their bank accounts but theres nothing left.of course theyl take Putins money.its a big sweaty bum waved at europe for daring to want paying back.Russian tourists will spend money to sunbathe as much as we do and Greece dont have much else to sell .

Very unlikely, cabbage makes terrible kebabs. As far as I can see Greece would very much still want to be in the union and they will do their best to stay within its frameworks - albeit in a different form and outside the euro (probably for only a handful of years).

 

I'm surprised it has gone as far as it has; it just looked like brinkmanship on both sides at first but both sides are risking a lot. If I was to guess I would say the Greeks will bend a fair bit the IMF/ECB etc will bend a bit less but both will make something work that allows Greece not to wander too far. An exit from the Euro and a while on the naughty step followed by a happy hug and some sort of reunion in several years time.

 

Edit: If they did look elsewhere for cash - at least in the short term, then I do agree with poontang that China could figure - largely because they (China) could have influence in a sizable proportion of global shipping. China will probably be more palatable for the EU than Russia too so it would make it easier for a Greek re-entry, or Grentry as I'm no doubt it will be called.

Edited July 6, 2015 by FalconFN

[keg]

The big gripe around here (about twelve mile north of Heathrow) is that the council is OBLIGED by law to house Asylum Seekers immediately. They go straight to the top of the queue and people see this - its hard not to!

 

So all these stories about families coming straight off the plane and straight into a house is literally true and it causes massive resentment.

Not according to the programme on council houses tonight, That was Portsmouth not Heathrow though.

[besty57]

I watched this last night,and as it was on channel 4,I wouldn't take it as gospel,

[besty57]

Not according to the programme on council houses tonight, That was Portsmouth not Heathrow though.

And you think Russia or China are going to put in billions that they will never get back. What's stopping them now putting money into Greek banks to help prevent them collapsing. ? Russia and China have enough problems of their own with taking on that basket case.

 

Russia would pay handsomely to have a navel port in the med.that is what scares the eu