Scully Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Work as self employed is precarious enough, having to disappear for an unknown amount of time could be a financial disaster. This is my feeling about it actually. I read of one person citing loss of customers as well as loss of earnings as his excuse as a sole trader, but can't find anything referring to the outcome. If there is no freedom of choice in this matter then I would be in favour of the jury less trial method as an alternative, as much as I loathe the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I know many people who have lost their lives for this country, I know many people who've lost limbs doing their duty. It really boils me to hear idiots whinging about having to do jury service and threatening to deliberately find people guilty out of spite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Agreed it's a duty but why should a self employed person or an employer suffer severe financial loss in order to do their duty? I'm sorry, but the figures quoted previously wouldn't compensate me for 1 lost hour, let alone a day! As such my concentration span would be about the same. It's just that I'd automatically find the accused guilty, just to balance things up. Because we'd lose the diversity of the jurors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 This is my feeling about it actually. I read of one person citing loss of customers as well as loss of earnings as his excuse as a sole trader, but can't find anything referring to the outcome. If there is no freedom of choice in this matter then I would be in favour of the jury less trial method as an alternative, as much as I loathe the idea. The people you know who have lost their lives and limbs for this country weren't press ganged into doing it. They joined the Forces by choice and got paid the going rate for the job. If you want folk to take Jury Service seriously pay them an amount that reflects that, not a derisory pittance that leaves them out of pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I know many people who have lost their lives for this country, I know many people who've lost limbs doing their duty. It really boils me to hear idiots whinging about having to do jury service and threatening to deliberately find people guilty out of spite. And I know one or two who have lost their lives or being injured, but not from a sense of doing their duty but from a freedom of choice to serve. It really boils me when I hear this repeatedly trotted out as a stick with which to beat those who don't wish to conform to anothers sense of duty. Conscription has nothing whatsoever to do with 'doing ones duty' as there is no freedom of choice in being branded a conscientious objector, and as far as I'm aware the second world war was fought so people had the freedom to choose. All those who have died serving in the armed forces since, enlisted by choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Can you please elaborate on how failing to attend jury service should affect your licence. It's got absolutely nothing to do with if someone should/should not partake in jury service. If you chose not to, and pay the fine, is that not part of living in a democratic society. Everyone has a choice. I feel it's another attempt at trolling at best or at worst pure stupidity on your part. No jury service = licence revoked. ******* stupid comment. !! It's a legal obligation, by not complying you're breaking the law. Whether that's enough to jeopardise a SGC, I don't know. But the fine represents the gravity of a crime, I've seen abh and even gbh offences handed out with a lesser crime. Interesting thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) If someone came on saying "I'm a Muslim immigrant who is now a British citizen and I've been asked to do jury service, I don't want to go as I make loads of money and doing jury service will leave me out of pocket so I'll just find the defendants guilty" he would be ripped apart. People would be saying "do your duty, it's what we do in this country, if you don't like it leave" Edited February 13, 2016 by toontastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 If someone came on saying "I'm a Muslim immigrant who is now a British citizen and I've been asked to do jury service, I don't want to go as I make loads of money and doing jury service will leave me out of pocket so I'll just find the defendants guilty" he would be ripped apart. People would be saying "do your duty, it's what we do in this country, if you don't like it leave" But I don't see it as my 'duty'. The state obviously sees it as my civic duty, but I don't. I tend to agree with sitsinhedges; why on earth would I want to go somewhere I don't want to go, to do something I don't want to do, for less than half the daily rate I need to make a living? Let the judge make the decision; he wanted the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 If someone came on saying "I'm a Muslim immigrant who is now a British citizen and I've been asked to do jury service, I don't want to go as I make loads of money and doing jury service will leave me out of pocket so I'll just find the defendants guilty" he would be ripped apart. People would be saying "do your duty, it's what we do in this country, if you don't like it leave" This post demonstrates why potential Jurors should have to demonstrate a certain level of intelligence before serving too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I know many people who have lost their lives for this country, I know many people who've lost limbs doing their duty. It really boils me to hear idiots whinging about having to do jury service and threatening to deliberately find people guilty out of spite. You and I both know that if it actually came to it then the op would do it to the best of his ability. The statement about deliberately finding them guilty is just a laugh on a forum, don't get so stressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie&bezza Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) But I don't see it as my 'duty'. The state obviously sees it as my civic duty, but I don't. I tend to agree with sitsinhedges; why on earth would I want to go somewhere I don't want to go, to do something I don't want to do, for less than half the daily rate I need to make a living? Let the judge make the decision; he wanted the job. Agree 100%. My 'duty' is providing for my baby daughter and partner so if it means trying to get out of it as I would be getting less money then so be it. Edited February 13, 2016 by winnie&bezza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wascal Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) If you chose not to, and pay the fine, is that not part of living in a democratic society. Everyone has a choice. The fine is meant as a punishment not as a choice . Maybe they made the fine a months wages , would you choose that ? Edited February 13, 2016 by wascal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 This post demonstrates why potential Jurors should have to demonstrate a certain level of intelligence before serving too. But they don't, merely breathing is qualification enough, with or without mouth open. You and I both know that if it actually came to it then the op would do it to the best of his ability. The statement about deliberately finding them guilty is just a laugh on a forum, don't get so stressed. Halleluliah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Halleluliah! I'll bet you used spellchecker before posting that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I'll bet you used spellchecker before posting that. Obviously not or he'd have spelt it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 If they compensated folk properly for their lost earnings I doubt it would be an issue. No-one else in the court room will be getting buttons for turning up. That includes the Defendant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Obviously not or he'd have spelt it right. Ha! I thought there was a 'j' in it but thought maybe I was wrong. Sorry ChrisBb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Ha! I thought there was a 'j' in it but thought maybe I was wrong. Sorry ChrisBb. No, you're right, I was being lazy. Allelujiah! Guilty as charged, without a jury! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derfley Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I got called up around 15 years ago did my bit for two weeks, then was called up again eleven and a half months after my first jury service, but if you are called up within the year you can/could decline without issue. Looking at the rate of compensation they don't appear significantly different from when I was on jury service, they really need revising, or you should have the opportunity to claim your daily rate with appropriate proof been required. On the plus side, it was fascinating to see how a court (in England, I believe it's slightly different in Scotland?) works in reality as opposed to what you see on TV, and I bumped into someone I went to school with who was serving on a different jury whom I hadn't seen since I left school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tx4cabbie Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Got called for jury service when I was doing the knowledge, cost me a week or so of being out on the bike, and a week's money from my night job, but apart from the boring, turgid nature of some parts of our legal system, I did enjoy it. Was on a case where a chap was accused of stabbing his wife when she told him she was leaving. First day or so, the prosecution had us thinking he was Kenny noye, he looked the part, poorly presented compared to his wife, who worked in the city and was suited and booted. Her side was - She said she was off, and he grabbed a kitchen knife in a hammer grip (blade sticking out of the top of the first)and stabbed her in the stomach. His side was - she came in holding the knife in an icepick grip (blade pointing down from bottom of fist), told him she'd kill him and say it was self defence, and because he was manual worker and she was city suit, she'd be believed. He wrestled for the knife as she brought it down from above her head, they fell backwards onto sofa with her on bottom, and knife went into her. Back in jury room, was fifty fifty over who was at fault. Asked the court official to find out where the wound channel was in her body. If he stuck her with 8" blade, underhand, from about waist level, should have nearly come out her back, and gone through several important bits. If she was holding knife vertically and it went in vertically, wound track would be shallow, explaining why she was out of hospital in a couple of days. Came back that it was second one, shallow wound going down her belly (largish woman) without entering her stomach cavity. Bloke's face was pure relief when we read out he was innocent, felt good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Got called for jury service when I was doing the knowledge, cost me a week or so of being out on the bike, and a week's money from my night job, but apart from the boring, turgid nature of some parts of our legal system, I did enjoy it. Was on a case where a chap was accused of stabbing his wife when she told him she was leaving. First day or so, the prosecution had us thinking he was Kenny noye, he looked the part, poorly presented compared to his wife, who worked in the city and was suited and booted. Her side was - She said she was off, and he grabbed a kitchen knife in a hammer grip (blade sticking out of the top of the first)and stabbed her in the stomach. His side was - she came in holding the knife in an icepick grip (blade pointing down from bottom of fist), told him she'd kill him and say it was self defence, and because he was manual worker and she was city suit, she'd be believed. He wrestled for the knife as she brought it down from above her head, they fell backwards onto sofa with her on bottom, and knife went into her. Back in jury room, was fifty fifty over who was at fault. Asked the court official to find out where the wound channel was in her body. If he stuck her with 8" blade, underhand, from about waist level, should have nearly come out her back, and gone through several important bits. If she was holding knife vertically and it went in vertically, wound track would be shallow, explaining why she was out of hospital in a couple of days. Came back that it was second one, shallow wound going down her belly (largish woman) without entering her stomach cavity. Bloke's face was pure relief when we read out he was innocent, felt good. Was it really left to a random bunch of people to come up with that theory rather than trained professionals such as detectives and forensic scientists. That's scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tx4cabbie Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Tbh, that was my thought, but I suppose not everyone can afford good counsel, and to have qualified folk in every jury room would be expensive and allow the possibility of tampering or bias - easiest way around that is the jury system, where the combined experience and knowledge of 12 different people is put together to create an entity bigger than the sum of its parts. Not foolproof, but seems to work if the other bits of the legal system do their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 could always leave it to the one crutch using,jeremy kyle watching benefit receiving brigade lol.................. personally i think id rather be tried with a ducking stool Been a while since we had a benefit knocking post. I keep forgetting everyone on benefits is a wrong 'un Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston72 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Been a while since we had a benefit knocking post. I keep forgetting everyone on benefits is a wrong 'un don't worry, ill mention it as frequently as my working day will allow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 don't worry, ill mention it as frequently as my working day will allowOriginal post edited as I will get into trouble, I have no time for bigots like yourself!!! And before you ask, I won't be adding anything else to your replies on this, so feel free to tar everyone with the same brush regardless of circumstances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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