oowee Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Germany shares its currency with weaker euro countries which weakens its price lowering the cost of its export and increasing the cost of imports making a very wealthy country. The influx of workers from across the EU provides a labour force to pay its pension deficit which keeps its retirement age down (recently reduced from 65 to 63). Together with its partners it sets the rules that govern trade within and into the euro zone. Compared to the UK's rebated contribution Germany pays 4x (?) that of the UK. It looks to me like they do pretty well out of being in the EU. Outside the EU without the influx of foreign European workers the UK would struggle to maintain retirement at for me 67 and 73 for those under 10 and its likely that pension values would fall. With a shortage of unskilled workers from the EU many industries would face increased labour costs resulting in inflated gate prices making sales more difficult. Being unable to directly influence EU policy and outside of Europe would result in the decline of Direct Foreign Investment to the UK (currently 29% of GVA), as investment moved to the centre rather than the UK periphery. Companies like Cadbury, Jaguar Land Rover, Honda, Nissan etc would choose to make new invesment outside of the UK (where is the new Defender to be made?). Working together is a basic tenet of civilisation. The world is managed by the large and the powerful. Any team has its squabbles and fall outs and sometimes the direction of travel is not what you want it to be. Being one of the strongest in a team must be better than shouting and fighting from the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Policed by the French that no longer have a requirement to stop migrants leaving France for the UK? What could possibly go wrong? Well, to put it simply, do trains and boats not have doors? No matter who the French want to send over no visa no boat. If they don't have the paperwork they don't get on, France can support them. If it takes longer to board so what, you'll have to wait and probably get there earlier Germany shares its currency with weaker euro countries which weakens its price lowering the cost of its export and increasing the cost of imports making a very wealthy country. The influx of workers from across the EU provides a labour force to pay its pension deficit which keeps its retirement age down (recently reduced from 65 to 63). Together with its partners it sets the rules that govern trade within and into the euro zone. Compared to the UK's rebated contribution Germany pays 4x (?) that of the UK. It looks to me like they do pretty well out of being in the EU. Outside the EU without the influx of foreign European workers the UK would struggle to maintain retirement at for me 67 and 73 for those under 10 and its likely that pension values would fall. With a shortage of unskilled workers from the EU many industries would face increased labour costs resulting in inflated gate prices making sales more difficult. Being unable to directly influence EU policy and outside of Europe would result in the decline of Direct Foreign Investment to the UK (currently 29% of GVA), as investment moved to the centre rather than the UK periphery. Companies like Cadbury, Jaguar Land Rover, Honda, Nissan etc would choose to make new invesment outside of the UK (where is the new Defender to be made?). Working together is a basic tenet of civilisation. The world is managed by the large and the powerful. Any team has its squabbles and fall outs and sometimes the direction of travel is not what you want it to be. Being one of the strongest in a team must be better than shouting and fighting from the edge. More to the point, IS a new Defender being made??? Sorry to derail thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besty57 Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Why would Nissan be investing hundreds of millions in its plant in Sunderland .if it thought it would not be selling in Europe .as for the influx of foreign workers .do you really think this benefits the average working man,all it means is lower wages for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 In! sorry work in an industry that would grind to a halt without EU workers. Plus 9% of stuff we import comes from the EU but 50% of the stuff we export goes to the EU. Just as a matter of interest what industry do you work in Tallshort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Out, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I think there's quite a few on here with a vested interest, and they're not saying !! So, come on, who would be personally better off if we stay in, who would be directly affected by leaving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del.gue Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Out. If we get control of our own borders we decide who comes to work here including seasonal workers. They could still come on tempory work visas...then go back. So no need for industries who rely on seasonal staff to suffer. Every country has the right to control its borders. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Maybe a little injection of facts will help you. Here... Keep reading the left wing press and you'll keep filling your head with rubbish. It may be that only 3 of those arrested were from Syria or Iraq, but as we all know the vast majority of those flooding into Europe are not from Syria (Eu figures claim 80%). The vast majority are from Iraq and North Africa, countries like Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco. Is it sinking in yet? P.s you didn't answer my question regarding TTIP in an earlier post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 It's almost impossible to know if any of us will be better or worse off. Personally, in the short term I doubt there will be any difference at all but my line of work is ultimately reliant on businesses I work for making money. For them to make money they need consumer confidence, market confidence, availability of emplyees and favourable trading conditions so in the medium and longer terms it could have a large bearing on the type of clients I have and how much they are willing to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I think there's quite a few on here with a vested interest, and they're not saying !! So, come on, who would be personally better off if we stay in, who would be directly affected by leaving? Don't we all have a vested interest one side or the other? I am not sure for myself which way would be best ( I am retired). Out and i would be concerned that the Government might not be able to pay my pension and my UK investments will be uncertain (lack of confidence) at least in the medium term. In and I am concerned that the principle of the Euro can only be enhanced by closer union which the UK will not be part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 It's almost impossible to know if any of us will be better or worse off. Personally, in the short term I doubt there will be any difference at all but my line of work is ultimately reliant on businesses I work for making money. For them to make money they need consumer confidence, market confidence, availability of emplyees and favourable trading conditions so in the medium and longer terms it could have a large bearing on the type of clients I have and how much they are willing to pay. I think we'll all be in that situation, we just have to work through it and strive for the top. It can be done, it will be the old "Don't tell me why it CAN'T be done, tell me how it CAN be done". I meant those who will be personally directly affected more or less instantly by such as restricted travel, work visa's etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Why oh why is everyone so hung up on the Immigrant issue? Do you really think that an 'out' vote will suddenly cause a reduction at our borders? We have the toughest borders in Europe by the very fact that we are an island-the 'out' vote would only stop/reduce those without automatic entitlement to live here- but can you really see our 'lovvies ' allowing a total block on new arrivals? Some of my work is in 'non EU' Norway and trust me-there are just as many 'new arrivals' Also, things won't change overnight!!!!! I dislike the thought of EU subsidies for farmers being withdrawn as many struggle as it is- this loss and free trade export loss will drive the basic cost of produce UP in the UK- at the moment we are enjoying a near record low level of inflation which is of course driven by 'average cost of a bundle of goods'. What I would like to see is a basic fact sheet of what we get out of the EU and also a simple this is out financial contribution and our financial benefits........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I think we'll all be in that situation, we just have to work through it and strive for the top. It can be done, it will be the old "Don't tell me why it CAN'T be done, tell me how it CAN be done". I meant those who will be personally directly affected more or less instantly by such as restricted travel, work visa's etc, etc. I would probably loose my cleaner and the local car wash would be under threat. Travel to the Shengen zone requires a passport now so that is unlikely to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Why oh why is everyone so hung up on the Immigrant issue? Do you really think that an 'out' vote will suddenly cause a reduction at our borders? It will mean the eu can't suddenly issue visa's to all and sundry just so we have to let them in, and we can stop benefits with immediate effect. We have the toughest borders in Europe by the very fact that we are an island-the 'out' vote would only stop/reduce those without automatic entitlement to live here- but can you really see our 'lovvies ' allowing a total block on new arrivals? Some of my work is in 'non EU' Norway and trust me-there are just as many 'new arrivals' Also, things won't change overnight!!!!! I dislike the thought of EU subsidies for farmers being withdrawn as many struggle as it is- this loss and free trade export loss will drive the basic cost of produce UP in the UK- at the moment we are enjoying a near record low level of inflation which is of course driven by 'average cost of a bundle of goods'. At the moment we pay more in than we take out, so will have plenty to subsidise farmers etc. As for trade, of course we'll trade as normal, if they block our goods going out we'll block theirs coming in. What I would like to see is a basic fact sheet of what we get out of the EU and also a simple this is out financial contribution and our financial benefits........ Is there one ? I would also very much like to see where the money we give them is spent, via audited accounts, but it's very unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 My heart says out, my head says in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Why oh why is everyone so hung up on the Immigrant issue? Do you really think that an 'out' vote will suddenly cause a reduction at our borders? It will mean the eu can't suddenly issue visa's to all and sundry just so we have to let them in, and we can stop benefits with immediate effect. We have the toughest borders in Europe by the very fact that we are an island-the 'out' vote would only stop/reduce those without automatic entitlement to live here- but can you really see our 'lovvies ' allowing a total block on new arrivals? Some of my work is in 'non EU' Norway and trust me-there are just as many 'new arrivals' Also, things won't change overnight!!!!! I dislike the thought of EU subsidies for farmers being withdrawn as many struggle as it is- this loss and free trade export loss will drive the basic cost of produce UP in the UK- at the moment we are enjoying a near record low level of inflation which is of course driven by 'average cost of a bundle of goods'. At the moment we pay more in than we take out, so will have plenty to subsidise farmers etc. As for trade, of course we'll trade as normal, if they block our goods going out we'll block theirs coming in. What I would like to see is a basic fact sheet of what we get out of the EU and also a simple this is out financial contribution and our financial benefits........ Is there one ? I would also very much like to see where the money we give them is spent, via audited accounts, but it's very unlikely. I don't think the accounts have ever been signed off by the auditors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I think there's quite a few on here with a vested interest, and they're not saying !! So, come on, who would be personally better off if we stay in, who would be directly affected by leaving? Me. If the UK left the EU many Brits living in France, Cyprus and Spain would have no choice but to go back to the UK. House prices would tumble again and even though we could technically stay I would lose most of my customers and when I eventually get my UK pension it would be frozen at the initial amount. So, we would probably have to return to the UK at a massive financial loss. Despite that I still hope for an 'Out' vote. A major contributor such as the UK getting a mandate to leave is the only way to derail the EU and whip it into line as a servant of the member countries not the master of them. My hope is for an 'Out' vote followed by the collapse of the current EU and something like it should have been replacing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) Here are some of the things I want answered by both the yes and no camps. Whoever makes the effort to answer, rather than spouting off the same old platitudes will have my vote. 1. Will we regain full control of our fishing rights in territorial waters? 2. What will be the financial impact when CAP is removed from farmers. 3. What will be the impact on the only land border with Europe and our closest trading partner in Ireland (in this regard I think we should all look to the Western extremity of Europe as much as worrying what happens across the English channel) 4. What will happen at the channel tunnel and Calais.? (I am not too worried about the whole migrant tide argument. I don't think it would be in the French national interest to let undocumented migrants flood into the tunnel. Such a laissez faire approach to the movement of people would damage France as much as the UK. This is scare mongering from the IN camp). But i still would like to here the plans from each side. 5. What would happen to the European arrest warrant? 6. What would the big banks in London's financial district do. (This is very important as the engine of our economy). 7. What will Scotland do, if England wants to leave and carries the vote? (The knock on effect is extremely worrying? More so than the whole migrant debate). I certainly do not want to be part of a UK that is outside the EU only for the country itself to then fall apart. 8. Will the central UK government ensure that those parts of the UK that have benefitted from the EU are not worse off in a new UK financial distribution that replaces the barnett formula? I am thinking rural and devolution nations. 9. What is the view of our main trading partners outside Europe? I am not interested in what their governments think, but I am interested in what their major companies are thinking. My list is building. But I think this will do for now. Answer on a post card please😁😁 Edited February 21, 2016 by Dr D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lampwick Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Out! I'm pretty sure most people have already made up their minds one way or another. It appears the case here! I would be interested to know if any on here or any of your acquaintances are undecided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 It's not all about money, cheap wine and skiing holidays. It's about freedom and future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bad lindz Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Out! I'm pretty sure most people have already made up their minds one way or another. It appears the case here! I would be interested to know if any on here or any of your acquaintances are undecided. Currently undecided, unfortunately like the recent Scottish referendum there to many questions to ask and we will probably only get a selective reply. We as the people on the street now have a say as to which way this vote will go but yes we need clear debate but debating wont answer the questions that we may all have. I am sure we all have a list of questions but who do we send them to ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 It's not all about money, cheap wine and skiing holidays. It's about freedom and future. And a lot are forgetting this ! It's about future generations quality of life, the money is a small part of it. Stay in and ruin the country for your children's children, let them be over run with immigrants that ignore the law, our way of life, our traditions. Or vote out and forego your trouble free travel to your skiing destination ...................... small price to pay really ! Personally I'll give up anything for my children and their future children, I just hope there's more like me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 same as the above comment, out for me to look after my childrens lifes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Don't we all have a vested interest one side or the other? I am not sure for myself which way would be best ( I am retired). Out and i would be concerned that the Government might not be able to pay my pension and my UK investments will be uncertain (lack of confidence) at least in the medium term. In and I am concerned that the principle of the Euro can only be enhanced by closer union which the UK will not be part of. Why? We will be millions of pounds better off per day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) And a lot are forgetting this ! It's about future generations quality of life, the money is a small part of it. Stay in and ruin the country for your children's children, let them be over run with immigrants that ignore the law, our way of life, our traditions. Or vote out and forego your trouble free travel to your skiing destination ...................... small price to pay really ! Personally I'll give up anything for my children and their future children, I just hope there's more like me 'The money is a small part of it'. Really? I would have thought the money, particularly given all the future gazing is a massive part of it. If you are firmly in the no camp then surely you have calculated that the UK is going to be financially better off. Or at the very least, no worse off? If not then surely you are ignorant and just sticking a finger in the wind? Edited February 21, 2016 by Dr D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts