Lib Dems To Propose Legalisation Of Cannabis

[Danger-Mouse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cannabis-legalisation-marijuana-uk-1bn-a-year-in-taxes-a6918161.html#gallery

 

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/03/08/the-lib-dem-cannabis-legalisation-system-revealed

 

I know this may spark off a bit of a row on here but I think it`s worth discussing in a rational manner. All across the world marijuana is being legalised/decriminalised and it`s having a positive effect on reducing crime and economically by opening new markets for business and raising extra tax income.

 

It`s certainly hitting the Mexican cartels in the pocket

 

http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2016/03/07/legal-marijuana-causes-mexican-drug-cartel-revenues-to-plummet/

 

I could also find stats from the states that shows a drop off in crime in iirc Colarado

 

Whilst the propsal by the LD`s suggests not "ring-fencing" the revenue, I would suggest it could be used to support the NHS as a whole. £1 billion extra a year would surely help out?

 

Plus, aside from recreational use, legalisation opens up more research into medical use. It`s already acknowledged as an excellent painkiller with huge advantages over opiate based products. I`ve also seen it being used for treating PTSD in US veterans.

 

Whilst I can`t see our current government changing the law anytime soon I think it is inevitable that it will happen sometime in the near future.

[Hendrix's rifle]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cannabis-legalisation-marijuana-uk-1bn-a-year-in-taxes-a6918161.html#gallery

 

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/03/08/the-lib-dem-cannabis-legalisation-system-revealed

 

I know this may spark off a bit of a row on here but I think it`s worth discussing in a rational manner. All across the world marijuana is being legalised/decriminalised and it`s having a positive effect on reducing crime and economically by opening new markets for business and raising extra tax income.

 

It`s certainly hitting the Mexican cartels in the pocket

 

http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2016/03/07/legal-marijuana-causes-mexican-drug-cartel-revenues-to-plummet/

 

I could also find stats from the states that shows a drop off in crime in iirc Colarado

 

Whilst the propsal by the LD`s suggests not "ring-fencing" the revenue, I would suggest it could be used to support the NHS as a whole. £1 billion extra a year would surely help out?

 

Plus, aside from recreational use, legalisation opens up more research into medical use. It`s already acknowledged as an excellent painkiller with huge advantages over opiate based products. I`ve also seen it being used for treating PTSD in US veterans.

 

Whilst I can`t see our current government changing the law anytime soon I think it is inevitable that it will happen sometime in the near future.

+1, nice bit of reasoning there

[jonny thomas]

If we legalise burglary it would have a massive effect on crime figures

Good ol liberals criminalise guns and legalise drugs you couldn't make it up

[Twistedsanity]

It should never have been made illegal, there is a brilliant book recently released about the "war on drugs" and its origins called " chasing the scream"

Which is pretty much the life story of the fantasist and racist Henry anslinger, a very interesting read

[mel b3]

whilst i can appreciate that its use does have some benefits in certain medical situations , i have also seen the state of most of the people that i have seen using it as a recreational pastime ,not all , but most of them are just a waste of human life.

[grrclark]

A reasoned and rational discussion that is free of the normal hysteria and mindless observance to hyperbole peddled by those with an obvious agenda would be a great thing, but sadly I don't see it happening. The hard of thinking will still peddle the same lines born out of ignorance.

 

As stated in your post DM there is a wealth of evidence that suggests very positive results can be achieved across the board with an appropriate approach to legalisation of cannabis. Of course there are negative considerations as well, but that is why a balanced and reasoned discussion would be a good thing, considering anything from a single perspective is never wise.

[MartynGT4]

whilst i can appreciate that its use does have some benefits in certain medical situations , i have also seen the state of most of the people that i have seen using it as a recreational pastime ,not all , but most of them are just a waste of human life.

 

Do you feel the same way about alcoholics?

Edited March 10, 2016 by MartynGT4

[Danger-Mouse]

If we legalise burglary it would have a massive effect on crime figures

 

 

That`s hardly the same thing though is it? I did request a rational debate on the topic.

 

Legalising cannabis takes it`s production/distribution out of the hands of criminals. It allows those that wish to partake of it to do so without being forced to associate with criminal elements. It also stops people gaining a criminal record for using something that is considerably less harmful than alcohol (114 times less so according to a US Federal study), and it frees up police time to go after more serious offences like burglary.

[keg]

If we legalise burglary it would have a massive effect on crime figures

Good ol liberals criminalise guns and legalise drugs you couldn't make it up

+1

[keg]

 

That`s hardly the same thing though is it? I did request a rational debate on the topic.

 

Legalising cannabis takes it`s production/distribution out of the hands of criminals. It allows those that wish to partake of it to do so without being forced to associate with criminal elements. It also stops people gaining a criminal record for using something that is considerably less harmful than alcohol (114 times less so according to a US Federal study), and it frees up police time to go after more serious offences like burglary.

75% of domestic burglary in West Yorks is to fund a drugs habit.Whilst is does not break down the stats by class of drug, If we legalise it, the idiots that take it will still have to pay for it so how does it lower crime?

 

Will drug driving become more common than drink driving?

[keg]

 

Do you feel the same way about alcoholics?

The difference is that your first pint will not fry your brain, cannabis might......or might not. You don't know until you try. The stuff available now is a lot stronger than the stuff in the 1960s.

 

Its medicinal use should be researched and if found useful, be used.

 

I speak from personal experience on this and my last post.

Edited March 10, 2016 by keg

[Fuji Shooter]

It is probably a lot safer take than most of the legal highs they are taking so maybe not a bad thing but I am no sure how it would actually be policed.

[Penelope]

Even those that are just drunk.

 

 

Do you feel the same way about alcoholics?

[Penelope]

Yes, most likely a heroin or crack cocaine addiction, not a bit of puff. There is a massive difference whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

 

As for the driving, I do not doubt that it already is more prevalent than driving whilst under the effects of alcohol.

 

75% of domestic burglary in West Yorks is to fund a drugs habit.Whilst is does not break down the stats by class of drug, If we legalise it, the idiots that take it will still have to pay for it so how does it lower crime?

 

Will drug driving become more common than drink driving?

Yes, most likely a heroin or crack cocaine addiction, not a bit of puff. There is a massive difference whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by Penelope

[Sha Bu Le]

I think the op's post made an oblique suggestion to the collection of tax on the sale of weed. I do not see how; in certainly the short term following any legalisation of cannabis HMRC are not going to get the suppliers to cough up a single penny of tax of any kind.

 

As for 1B£ for the NHS, I think it would be the reverse, cost the NHS 1B£. Hey there is ganja and ganja. Six months on skunk would put anyone in hospital.

 

How would it be supplied and controlled................pssssst bro wan some weed, I'll give you a receipt. Oh yea.

 

Sorry people but I do not see how legalising the stuff will make any difference to the current situation. It will still cost and the people who use this stuff will still have to find the dosh.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Sha Bu Le

[FalconFN]

Even those that are just drunk.

 

Or have a glass of wine after work or during dinner.

[keg]

I don't disagree that there is a difference between heroin and Cannabis. A GP friend prefers the users to take Heroin if the feel the need to take anything at all, it's purer.

 

It's the fact that you do not know how you will react to it, same as legal highs.

I think the op's post made an oblique suggestion to the collection of tax on the sale of weed. I do not see how; in certainly the short term following any legalisation of cannabis HMRC are going to get the suppliers to cough up a single penny of tax of any kind.

 

As for 1B£ for the NHS, I think it would be the reverse, cost the NHS 1B£. Hey there is ganja and ganja. Six months on skunk would put anyone in hospital.

 

How would it be supplied and controlled................pssssst bro wan some weed, I'll give you a receipt. Oh yea.

 

Sorry people but I do not see how legalising the stuff will make any difference to the current situation. It will still cost and the people who use this stuff will still have to find the dosh.

+1 again.

[UKPoacher]

Legalising it means producing the stuff under licence and to an agreed standard. That and the taxes will invariably make it more expensive than the black market stuff that will still be available and probably just as popular as it is today. All legalising will mean is that more people who would like to try it but can't or daren't because of the stigma, potential loss of employment, etc. etc might give it a go. Meanwhile Bransome and Co. will be making £millions out of the supply of 'legal' drugs. Which is really what all this is about. Taking some of the money out of criminals pockets and putting it into rich businessmen's pockets.

 

Will it solve any social problems? I don't think so. Will it result in less crime? Can't see it myself. Probably the reverse if you discount the pre-legalising cannabis prosecutions. Will it lead to more drug driving? Inevitably.

[ajb403]

A couple of weeks ago I went to a public lecture given by Prof David Nutt, the former chair of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs who was sacked for presenting data that showed cannabis to be less harmful than alcohol. If anyone ever get a chance to hear him speak I highly recommend it. He presented some very interesting statistics relating to cannabis (among other things) and it's harm to both society and the user along side the data for various other drugs. Holland does not have large numbers of opiate users and pretty much nobody uses 'legal highs' (which are no longer legal) like Spice because of the availability of cannabis. I'm in favour of legalising it, I wouldn't choose to use it, but it does seem to be the lesser of two evils.

[FalconFN]

If we ignore the legal element for a moment, which is a dfferent half the problem, the use of drugs themselves is seldom a problem, it is the abuse of drugs that is so damaging.

 

If you are abusing drugs, alcohol or even food then the cost personally and to tax payer is likely to be high so the logical question is surely; if cannabis is legalised will abuse rise, fall or remain the same?

 

Paracetamol and alcohol are potentially much more damaging, and certainly more life threatening, than cannabis (less than £1 worth of paracetamol can be fatal) but we trust the population to be moderate. The alternative is something than many on here bemoan - the nanny state.

[Danger-Mouse]

75% of domestic burglary in West Yorks is to fund a drugs habit.Whilst is does not break down the stats by class of drug, If we legalise it, the idiots that take it will still have to pay for it so how does it lower crime?

 

Will drug driving become more common than drink driving?

 

Whilst a small percentage of crime may be related to cannabis use the vast majority is from heroin and crack cocaine addicts. How does it lower crime? Well for a start people are not being arrested for it`s possesion or for growing it. As I stated in my OP there are figures available from one of the US states that back up my assertion. I will attempt to locate them for a future post.

 

Drug driving is already more prevalent than drink driving. But those figures may change if a more accurate test was introduced and a "safe" limit imposed.

 

I think the op's post made an oblique suggestion to the collection of tax on the sale of weed. I do not see how; in certainly the short term following any legalisation of cannabis HMRC are not going to get the suppliers to cough up a single penny of tax of any kind.

 

As for 1B£ for the NHS, I think it would be the reverse, cost the NHS 1B£. Hey there is ganja and ganja. Six months on skunk would put anyone in hospital.

 

How would it be supplied and controlled................pssssst bro wan some weed, I'll give you a receipt. Oh yea.

 

Sorry people but I do not see how legalising the stuff will make any difference to the current situation. It will still cost and the people who use this stuff will still have to find the dosh.

 

There was nothing oblique about my reference to the collection of tax from marijuana sales. Did you actually read either of the articles I posted that outlined the plans for sales? Whether you believe it or not is somewhat irrelevent. You can believe whilst I can publish data from the US states that have already undertaken to legalise marijuana. If legalised it will raise revenue.

 

I doubt the costs to the NHS would be so significant. It`s not as if people aren`t already smoking it. At least this way they would be contributing to their medical bills via taxation. And there are plenty of people who smoke it on a day to day basis who do not end up in hospital after 6 months. It would be the exception rather than the rule. Given that no one has ever died of an overdose or from withdrawal of marijuana. The same cannot of course be said for alcohol.

 

I don't disagree that there is a difference between heroin and Cannabis. A GP friend prefers the users to take Heroin if the feel the need to take anything at all, it's purer.

 

 

Really? I`d like to see that in writing. There are plenty of doctors who agree that marijuana is a much better and far safer option as a painkiller than opiates.

 

As for purity well, it`s harvested and dried from a plant and then smoked. The only possible pollutants are from whatever is used to fertilise it.

 

Street heroin is cut with anything from brick dust, to Vim to baby powder so unless your GP friend is prescribing pure heroin to his patients then I`m afraid I`m going to have to disagree rather strongly. And even if he were handing out medical grade smack there`s still the fact that it`s highly physically addictive whereas marijuana has only mild, if any physical addictive qualities and a relatively low phychological addiction.

[Sha Bu Le]

Legalising it means producing the stuff under licence and to an agreed standard. That and the taxes will invariably make it more expensive than the black market stuff that will still be available and probably just as popular as it is today. All legalising will mean is that more people who would like to try it but can't or daren't because of the stigma, potential loss of employment, etc. etc might give it a go. Meanwhile Bransome and Co. will be making £millions out of the supply of 'legal' drugs. Which is really what all this is about. Taking some of the money out of criminals pockets and putting it into rich businessmen's pockets.

 

Will it solve any social problems? I don't think so. Will it result in less crime? Can't see it myself. Probably the reverse if you discount the pre-legalising cannabis prosecutions. Will it lead to more drug driving? Inevitably.

UKP +1

Edited March 10, 2016 by Sha Bu Le

[walshie]

Does it matter what they propose? The polls showed exactly how important their opinion is to the general public.

[Lloyd90]

I don't think forum is entirely representative of the UK population, it's about shooting, and although not entirely for the rich or posh, I'd say the majority of people involved are somewhat well off, middle class types and rather conservative and not so liberal leaning on a whole (Stereotyping a bit there sorry lads lol)

 

As we have also seen in recent times, such as the huge support for UKIP here etc the people out there often have an entirely different view and there are a lot of them.

 

Personally I think that legalisation and rigid control would be better than the current stance. This is from my experience working with and talking to top drug legislation officials (Who recently defined and drew up the recent new laws to combat the huge problem with these legal highs), as well as looking at statistics and other views with regard to medical, social use etc

 

As stated, it is just my opinion. I do believe there are a lot of people out there who use it, medically and recreationally, responsibly and whether legal or not will continue to do so.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Lloyd90

[Danger-Mouse]

As promised some articles about Colarado

 

https://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/Colorado_Marijuana_Legalization_One_Year_Status_Report.pdf

 

And from http://wspa.com/2015/10/30/how-is-colorado-doing-since-marijuana-legalization/

 

Monthly Colorado License, Fee, And Tax Income From Recreational And Medical Cannabis

Total Total Rec Total Med
Jan: 3,519,756 2,109,876 1,409,880
Feb: 4,092,575 2,316,234 1,776,341
Mar: 4,980,992 3,187,047 1,793,945
Apr: 5,273,355 3,730,786 1,542,569
May: 5,715,707 3,921,199 1,794,508
Jun: 6,522,085 4,650,861 1,871,224
Jul: 7,407,450 5,658,190 1,749,260
Aug: 7,741,167 5,976,507 1,764,660
Sep: 7,232,870 5,534,084 1,698,786
Oct: 7,642,800 6,222,903 1,419,897
Nov: 7,465,568 5,991,873 1,473,695
Dec: 8,558,141 6,933,785 1,624,356

Total: 76,152,466 56,233,345 19,919,121

[sOURCE: Colorado Department of Revenue, "Colorado Marijuana Tax Data - State of Colorado Marijuana Taxes, Licenses, and Fees Transfers and Distribution"]

Colorado did not see a statistically significant change in fatal traffic accidents:

2012: 474 (Population: 5.19 million, 0.0091%)
2013: 481 (Population: 5.27 million, 0.0091%)
2014: 488 (Population: 5.36 million, 0.0091%)
[sOURCE: Colorado DOT & "As Reported" to NHTSA by FARS]

Overall crime rate has not increased:

Colorado Overall Average Crimes per 100,000:
2012: 3,482.2
2013: 3,486.8
2014: 3,398.8
[sOURCE: Colorado Bureau of Investigation - 2013,2014 Colorado Reported Statewide Crimes]

Even though cannabis based business are forced to conduct transactions using cash only, violent crime has decreased in Denver with the first year of legal sales:

Compared with 2013, in 2014 Denver violent crime is down overall by 0.7%, with murder down by 24.4%, rape down by 2.5% and robbery down by 3.3%. Property crime (including burglary, larceny, auto theft, theft from motor vehicle and arson) dropped by 2.0%. Overall UCR crime is down 1.8%.
[sOURCE: "PART 1 CRIME IN THE CITY AND COUNTY OF DENVER BASED ON UCR STANDARDS", denvergov.Org]

Colorado has not experienced the surge in teen use predicted by prohibitionists:

Past Month Colorado High School Cannabis Use
2009: 24.8%
2011: 22.0%
2013: 19.7%
[sOURCE: 2009 and 2012 Youth Risk Behavior Survey Results - Colorado High School Survey Summary Table; 2013 Healthy Kids Colorado Survey Results - Colorado High School Summary Tables]

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/colorado-has-proved-that-legalising-cannabis-works-so-its-about-time-we-let-the-uk-get-high-9582714.html

 

Six months ago the state of Colorado legalised marijuana. Now the THC dust has begun to settle on this landmark decision, it’s time to analyse the results and see what we can take home from them.

To the surprise of no drug reform activists anywhere, the consequences of Colorado’s decision have been overwhelmingly positive.

The state’s governor, John Hickenlooper, predicts that sales of the drug will reach $1bn in the next fiscal year, raising almost $134m in tax revenue. Arrests for drug-related crimes and the murder rate have also halved, and tens of thousands of people have found work in the state's burgeoning cannabis market.