Is the Brexit referendum too early?

[James19306]

I posted this on the bbs but it was moved somewhere I have no access to. I keep thinking the referendum is happening a few years too early. With things in the EU seemingly getting worse year by year for example the migrant crisis and recent vote in Austria looking a bit nasty. I think a vote in a few years time when the EU is in an even worse state would make young voters take the decision more seriously. If they don't take it seriously when the European Union demise does finally come we will be stuck in a sinking ship with them. I think times are rapidly changing and we are not the only European country in the mood for a bit more self preservation, we are however one of the only countries who dare mention leaving or the whole thing could collapse.

[zipdog]

It was promised by Cameron who never believed he would get a majority. He talked about reforms in Europe and got nothing, hence why he's not banging on about them to help the support campaign along. Corbyn, who has long spoke out against the undemocratic tendencies of the EU suddenly comes out in support. Boris well to be honest he's not doing much and I'm not sure which side he is really batting for.

 

I feel we have put the nail in our own coffin. The public will vote in, because they will be too scared to vote out. And then, the EU will say Britain, you have democratically voted to join and be ruled by a federal state, forever rest your case.

Edited May 23, 2016 by zipdog

[Mungler]

We are being manipulated, in the same way a later Scottish referendum (post the oil market crash) would have given rise to an entirely different outcome, a vote on the EU post a further Greek default or the anticipated Italian default to come would give rise to a conclusive out vote.

[Scully]

I have consoled myself to the possibility that we will vote to remain, but the reason for that consolation is that I firmly believe the EU's days are numbered; the cracks are beginning to show and that within my lifetime the entire shooting match will crumble and break up, and immigration will play a great part in its downfall. It is an unsustainable policy in y opinion, and that's what I'm pinning my hopes on.

[ditchman]

I have consoled myself to the possibility that we will vote to remain, but the reason for that consolation is that I firmly believe the EU's days are numbered; the cracks are beginning to show and that within my lifetime the entire shooting match will crumble and break up, and immigration will play a great part in its downfall. It is an unsustainable policy in y opinion, and that's what I'm pinning my hopes on.

 

 

This.........

[lord_seagrave]

The point that Lady Seagrave makes, and, were I not such a Brexiteer, I would agree with, is that in the absence of virtually any facts, the decision is just too complex and important for ordinary people to vote on.

 

Many who hold this view may conclude that they must abstain from voting.

 

The timing is crucial, and the OP is spot-on to say that it's too early for the EU cracks to be fully visible.

 

What offends me (apologies for the tangential rant) is the complete lack of positivity on the Remain side. No-one, so far as I can tell, has shown anything but grim resignation when talking about the EU as an institution. No-one is actively championing membership in positive terms (all I seem to hear is generalisations about how Britain is "safer" "stronger" "wealthier" in the EU). The only time the Remain side get excited is when they are preducting the apocalypse if Britain leaves.

 

So, everyone is agreed that the EU as an organisation doesn't really work and yet Britain will end up remaining inside out of fear.

 

LS

[ShootingEgg]

Ls your rant is spot on... I have not heard one argument to stay that is not one of how bad everything will be if we leave.

[Vince Green]

The EU will implode eventually by itself. You can't keep swimming against the tide of common sense forever and even if we vote to remain the seeds of doubt are sown. Other countries are just as disillusioned so one way or another the end is inevitable.

[Billy.]

It's a David (not Cameron!) and Goliath situation though. The remain camp speak up about some crackpot statement, such as ISIS supporting Brexit and then the news channels gobble this up are flooded with this new revelation. So the remain camp string out their facts so that the news has something to run with on a daily basis and drives their campaign perfectly for them.

 

I just wonder what tomorrow holds with the next Brexit woes which the PM or Chancellor will announce. We've had house prices, jobs, ISIS, recession, immigration, borders, EEC trade deals, fuel prices, expat expulsion

 

Next up from the Gov; UK's Visa free access to countries, school closures, Bin laden says from the grave that he supports Brexit, UK to become third world, Switzerland and Norway are an exception to the rule, we're all going to die...

Edited May 24, 2016 by Billy.

[rjimmer]

The EU will implode eventually by itself. You can't keep swimming against the tide of common sense forever and even if we vote to remain the seeds of doubt are sown. Other countries are just as disillusioned so one way or another the end is inevitable.

It took the USSR 70 years to go bust, so we might have another 30 years of this to go if we don't get out NOW.

[four-wheel-drive]

The thing that I cannot get my head around is that we see so many small countries or parts of countries like Scotland and Spain the Bask part and lots of others all wanting independence only as soon as they get it or think that they will get it they want to join an even bigger country the EU what is that all about. :no:

[Mungler]

As I have said before, staying in just because leaving would apparently be apocalyptic for us, is in itself not a particular good or positive reason to stay in.

 

I still remember all the die hard pro-Europeans telling us how we should have jumped right in and joined the Euro. What a near miss that was eh?

[Whitebridges]

It's going to get even better when the EU lets 74m turks in.

[four-wheel-drive]

It's going to get even better when the EU lets 74m turks in.

As they will have frightened the **** out of us so that they all rush out and vote IN as they will we will just have to learn Turkish Polish etc etc.

[subsonicnat]

It was called the common market,,Then they released the term EU into it..

It will take more and more of your rights,And be run by **** like the Blaires..

It is only a matter of time when this money pot sinks,,it will happen..

Greece is the tip of the iceberg,Frightens the hell out of them,that Greece could go bust,which it will. If we Leave other countries will follow,,thats why it is so important to them..

The attitude of the then French President passing Cameron on the tv showed how weak Cameron was,,He looked like a Bullied Child at School...He really had a sick look on his face..

They talk about a Leap into Darkness,,, No,,,,The D Day landings were a Leap in the Dark..

Cameron does mention one plus on leaving,,Take our borders Down in the future and all the women in England will be wearing Burkas,,The Muslims state...,,they will not stop till we all turn to islam.?

Do you want this for our island,,think well before you vote..

The youngsters of today have no idea what they will face in two generations,,Today its about paying more for Holidays,. If thats all they can frighten us with,,Mark the gains..

Then Vote...

[pigeonroost]

The Eu counties are in a mess, spain, Italy Greece to name a few . f we have to bail Italy out as there unemployment is over 50% its an impossibility as there far too many there. Greece got $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s from us, spain $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s ..we are been bled dry !

Although fiat, Ferrari & the rest of the Italian motor industry thrives been the largest in the world !! Go figure that out ..Hmmmmmm. We get the bummest deal in the Eu, with poor quality food, drink etc & top taxes , whilst they get double our pensions @ 60years +. They just think, & many know , we are mugs to stay.

[keg]

Add France to that, the finances are dire over there.

[Les*1066]

The thing that I cannot get my head around is that we see so many small countries or parts of countries like Scotland and Spain the Bask part and lots of others all wanting independence only as soon as they get it or think that they will get it they want to join an even bigger country the EU what is that all about. :no:

 

Simple.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Les*1066]

Add France to that, the finances are dire over there.

 

And the likes of Turkey, too, when they eventually join. Plus who knows how many economic immigrants. There are so many obvious negatives and very few obvious positives, but I think that the sheeple will vote to keep us in. [Hopefully, as already stated, the whole EU debacle will implode soon. I wish!! ]

[Gunman]

I,ve been campaigning for a referendum since 1997. Back then the government and the media liked to pretend the EU did not exist and if it did it was only had minor influence. Its not to early but it is nearly to late .

[ferguson_tom]

I personally think it will surprise and be quite a large majority who vote to leave. Some people will be voting out for the right reasons the majority will be voting out for the wrong reasons (immigration, muslims etc) whatever the reasons the outcome should be the right one. I speak to such a broad range of people in my job and so far the only person who I know is voting in will be an old school friend who spent years working in Austria.

 

It is the right time imo at least we have chance to get out before the ship sinks and takes us with it!

[ShootingEgg]

I watched question time last night and the three wanting to leave put across very well thought out reasons and didn't get dragged into the tit for tat **** that this campaign has been..

[pigeonroost]

One fact is , if we don't get out this time. its over, you never get a chance again & Germany will run your life, The bankers & super rich businesses will make slaves of the poor & have the working classes eating from there hands , whilst creaming it all........ vote or wave good bye to it ALL !! even shooting / rifle restrictions

[Granett]

Jesus - is there anyone or anything that isn't part of the perceived conspiracy against Vote Leave?

• The vote's too early - conspiracy! It's too late - conspiracy!
• Every single independent economic institute and think-tank worth a damn says Britain will be worse off - conspiracy!
• Our amateur-hour cavalier rhetoric has actually alienated some of our own economists - conspiracy!
• The Daily Mail has started accusing others of scaremongering to suit their agenda - rank hypocrisy conspiracy!
• The nearest approximation to the core Brexit voter is the Baby Boomer egoists and some people are starting to question their altruism - conspiracy!
• Nobody listens when I call the IFS a propaganda machine, and then they whisper "Have a word" when I say, "Young voters should all be forced to listen to Nigel down the pub because nobody puts the world to rights like right-minded Nig." - conspiracy!

I've struggled to decide which way to vote in the referendum, because in spite of the best efforts of the Vote Leave protagonists to conceal them with utter garbage, I think there are some legitimate reasons to consider it. I'm currently pro-remain - in a nutshell because I've no confidence that the problems identified by Vote Leave will get fixed by "Brexit".

 

I would say that it is a real shame for those who are certain about leaving that Boris and Gove have had so much of the limelight. In my view Farage actually has more credibility in this debate than both of those two self-servers.

 

I've debated the merits of sticking my head above the parapet here where the consensus appears against my position. But in the end I thought it might of some benefit to some to see that if there are a few votes to remain, that they are legitimate votes and not just the result of SPECTRE or HYDRA or whichever nefarious organisation it's believed is pulling the strings.

 

As you were!

[Vince Green]

I really don't see why people assume everybody who wants to leave is a racist. Or indeed that they should be allowed to get away with implying it.

 

There was a lot of talk on the radio today about 'that poster'. To be honest I don't really give that much of a dam about the poster but it was put out by an organisation called "Operation Black Vote".

 

Sidestepping the obvious question which is, what would have happened if there was an organisation called Operation white vote putting out posters?

.

 

How is this organisation funded? Where did the money come from to pay the wages and print the poster? It was designed by Satchi & Satchi so not a small project. The message, albeit subliminal, appears to be saying vote remain so is this coming out of the remain budget?

Edited May 27, 2016 by Vince Green