Lies Told To Norway

[SpringDon]

What I don't understand is how the polls show Close levels. I would think that the members on here represent a fair cross section of the population and at work we deal with a lot of the general public. The amount of people that are saying out is massively overwhelmingly out. So how do the poles not show this? I do not browbeat people but I do try to convert any waverer to firstly vote on the day and to do their patriotic duty.

I'd say the members on here tend to be older males and the vocal ones seem to be outers. This is mirrored on a landrover forum I go on.

However, a friend in Bristol is a remainer and so , it seems, are his younger urban friends. So I think it's a demographic split and there's more people in towns than the country.

[wymberley]

I don't think that the euro fighter project is in any danger,

+1

The reason being is that trade/business is higher up the pecking order than mere politics or anything else for that matter - after all, it continued during WW2. The euro fighter, the Tornado and the Jaguar all owe their multi national existence to the TSR2 fiasco.

[Rewulf]

I'd say the members on here tend to be older males and the vocal ones seem to be outers. This is mirrored on a landrover forum I go on.

However, a friend in Bristol is a remainer and so , it seems, are his younger urban friends. So I think it's a demographic split and there's more people in towns than the country.

 

By that reasoning ,and this was first put out by remain, if you are young (and sensible,is the underlying suggestion) you are more likely to vote remain.

If you are old (and senile,closet nazi blah blah) you are for leave.

Not matter what your opinion on the matter ?

A tragic,pathetic bit of pigeon holeing designed to subconsciously get you to make the 'right ' decision for your 'class' of voter.

Much like threatening the elderlies pensions, or peoples jobs.

For a government to stoop to these depths is unforgivable,and I hope people remember this, whatever happens.

Propaganda worthy of ultra right or ultra left wing politics,and they call Brexiters xenophobes and racists?

[ShootingEgg]

Id like to think at 32 i am not old haha.. I am sensible(i think) and im voting to leave, oh and im sat in Bristol... Bristol is a very labour loving city the southwest always have a lot of blue then a blob of red on the map at election days...

 

I dont think where you live be in towns / cities or the countryside is how this vote will be split.

[SpringDon]

By that reasoning ,and this was first put out by remain, if you are young (and sensible,is the underlying suggestion) you are more likely to vote remain.

If you are old (and senile,closet nazi blah blah) you are for leave.

...

Propaganda worthy of ultra right or ultra left wing politics,and they call Brexiters xenophobes and racists?

This is the problem on both sides. One accuses the other of xenophobia, the other of conspiracy and lies. Demographic splits exist irrespective of labels of propaganda.

Perhaps if people promoted the positive of their case rather than concentrating of rubbishing the claims of the other, the picture might be clearer.

[Vince Green]

The referendum is not a vote to leave, it is just asking the people if they think we should. Nothing happens the day after or even probably in the year after a vote to leave. Wheels will start to turn but they will turn very, very slowly. Its not even binding on parliament who could vote not to accept the result if they had a majority. MPs would have to consider their individual positions very carefully and it could be a tricky balancing act for some.

 

More significantly, the EU could simply not accept the result, they did that with Ireland when they voted not to ratify one of the treaties

 

I predict it will take ten years or more to separate us. All the EU laws will still be british laws and none of the arrangements will change until changes are put in place formally. It will be painfully slow and lots of blocking moves along the way to resolve.

 

Migrant workers will still be able to come to work in this country, they will just have to fill in a few forms and that's not a bad thing.

 

We still have to jump through all sorts of hoops to go and live and work in other countries now, even though we are part of the EU.

 

I think this country has taken all this free movement too literally, other countries don't equate free movement and uncontrolled movement in quite the same way we do. Most EU countries have identity cards for example.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Vince Green

[the enigma]

I am a farmer employing EU crop pickers. They are not cheap, they are exactly the same price as British crop pickers. The big difference is they turn up and do the work, the British crop pickers are not very good at either. I would prefer to have British crop pickers but they are a waste of space.

 

I have never been to an NFU meeting in my life nor do I know of any other farmer that has. The general consensus of farmers is that the NFU make up their own minds what policies to promote and farmers have little or no influence. Generally NFU is considered to mean No F Use.

 

As far as I can make out the majority of farmers are saying they will vote leave. I am

 

+1. NFU seems to be the same as the Ulster Farmers' Union, a bunch of yes men.

[the enigma]

Last week we, in Northern Ireland, had both John Major and Tony Blair telling us that the vote to leave would "destabilising the complicated and multi-layered constitutional settlement that underpins the present stability in Northern Ireland". Talk about blatant scare tactics, I always knew Tony Blair was untrustworthy, to put it politely, but this is scraping the barrel. Needless to say, it's reinforced my decision on which way to vote.

[12gauge82]

What I don't understand is how the polls show Close levels. I would think that the members on here represent a fair cross section of the population and at work we deal with a lot of the general public. The amount of people that are saying out is massively overwhelmingly out. So how do the poles not show this? I do not browbeat people but I do try to convert any waverer to firstly vote on the day and to do their patriotic duty.

I know lots of students, people who work in universitys, businesses that get funding from EU, large corporations advising their low paid workers their jobs will be at risk etc, annoys the hell out if me, but you add them all up it comes to a large portion of the population, the tricks being played are infuriating

[Vince Green]

I know lots of students, people who work in universitys, businesses that get funding from EU, large corporations advising their low paid workers their jobs will be at risk etc, annoys the hell out if me, but you add them all up it comes to a large portion of the population, the tricks being played are infuriating

Some woman on the radio saying her daughter came home from school crying because a teacher had told her if we vote leave the French Exchange visit would be off.

[rodp]

Had a conversation today with an acquaintance regarding brexit, it appears he's voting to stay in because if we leave Europe may stop selling us food and we'll starve, France will ship all the immigrants out on our ferries immediately, Germany will take our financial section from London more or less overnight, all the doctors and nurses will leave on the next plane etc, etc. This bloke is 65 and supposedly all grown up, although he admits he never reads a paper or watches any news apart from BBC,........................and he has actually been allowed to breed

[AVB]

At the general election the seniors at my sons school (13-18)had a mock election and were 70% UKIP. However they just had a mock referendum and were 70% remain. I find that strange to reconcile.

 

My son (who is 12 in two weeks) is strongly remain. Far more opinionated than I would have expected.

[Rewulf]

 

My son (who is 12 in two weeks) is strongly remain. Far more opinionated than I would have expected.

 

My kids were like that,the schools fill their heads with the usual 'You wont be able to study abroad ,your parents wont love you ect'

 

Till I showed them the error of their ways !

[rodp]

At the general election the seniors at my sons school (13-18)had a mock election and were 70% UKIP. However they just had a mock referendum and were 70% remain. I find that strange to reconcile.

 

My son (who is 12 in two weeks) is strongly remain. Far more opinionated than I would have expected.

Be interesting to ask him why, just what information he's been given. If it was my child and any misinformation had been given I would be straight up the school and demand it was put right.

[old man]

Basically it comes down whether you want to live in a democracy with an accountable government or not. Thousands of people gave their lives for freedom and democracy yet people are happy to give it away in fear that their flights to Spain may be more expensive next year. Find it absolutely tragic the readiness of people to surrender soverenty and democracy.

Absolutely correct Sir!

[rjimmer]

Second or third stage of Marxist Revolution : Indoctrinate the school kids.

[AVB]

 

My kids were like that,the schools fill their heads with the usual 'You wont be able to study abroad ,your parents wont love you ect'

 

Till I showed them the error of their ways !

I don't think they do indoctrinate. It a very good school and they encourage open debate on many subjects. The vast majority of children would be from white or Asian middle class families. 99% go on to university, the majority being Russell group universities. I will try to understand his thinking a bit more.

[the enigma]

At the general election the seniors at my sons school (13-18)had a mock election and were 70% UKIP. However they just had a mock referendum and were 70% remain. I find that strange to reconcile.

 

My son (who is 12 in two weeks) is strongly remain. Far more opinionated than I would have expected.

 

I was having breakfast with the kids this morning, and Newsround came on, and the "reporters" were really pumping the remain vote. Usual half truths being passed off as fact, even to youngsters.

[mick miller]

Vince has highlighted the problem with the 'referendum'. It is merely an advisory. The results aren't binding and any outcome will be decided on by Parliament, the majority of whom are pro EU.

 

Even if Parliament decide to accept and act on the wishes of the electorate it doesn't necessarily mean the decision will be agreed on by the EU.

 

I see the following happening. If the result is close Dave will announce 'the British public have no clear consensus, we, therefore, vote to Remain'.

 

If the result is in favour of Remain Dave will announce 'the British public have come out in favour of a clear mandate to Remain in EU and we, as elected representatives, act on their will'.

 

If the result is overridingly in favour of 'Brexit', Dave will announce 'the British public have chosen to leave the EU, we, as elected representatives, are duty bound to consider their wishes, however, we feel that they have been misled about many of the facts and benefits of EU membership and so we will vote on their decision (and they'll lose)'.

 

Cynical? Me?

Edited June 16, 2016 by mick miller

[Danger-Mouse]

Vince has highlighted the problem with the 'referendum'. It is merely an advisory. The results aren't binding and any outcome will be decided on by Parliament, the majority of whom are pro EU.

 

True, but it would be political suicide to ignore the outcome. Those who chose to ignore the public will would find themselves facing extreme hostility the next time they attempted to run for Parliament.

 

Even if Parliament decide to accept and act on the wishes of the electorate it doesn't necessarily mean the decision will be agreed on by the EU.

 

Somewhat irrelevent. Even if the EU attempted to overthrow the will of the British people Parliament would only have to repeal the EC Act of 1972 and the EU wouldn`t have a legal leg to stand on. But I don`t think they will interfere if the result is leave.

 

I see the following happening. If the result is close Dave will announce 'the British public have no clear consensus, we, therefore, vote to Remain'.

 

Cameron has already said he`ll act as the public wishes. Again, to ignore that mandate would be political suicide. We`ve already seen, with the emergency budget in the last couple of days that members of his own party are willing to block any proposals they take issue with. Cameron would be left with a crippled administration that could only pass legislation with Labour or SNP support.

 

If the result is in favour of Remain Dave will announce 'the British public have come out in favour of a clear mandate to Remain in EU and we, as elected representatives, act on their will'.

 

As he should

 

If the result is overridingly in favour of 'Brexit', Dave will announce 'the British public have chosen to leave the EU, we, as elected representatives, are duty bound to consider their wishes, however, we feel that they have been misled about many of the facts and benefits of EU membership and so we will vote on their decision (and they'll lose)'.

 

Won`t happen, for the reasons already discussed.

 

Cynical? Me?

 

Yes . . . and no doubt with good reason a lot of the time. But not this time imo. Cameron`s ambition and arrogance would have to be collossal to ignore the result of the referendum. He wouldn`t just split his party, he`d shatter it, along with British democracy, and I don`t believe he has that in mind.

[Vince Green]

 

Vince has highlighted the problem with the 'referendum'. It is merely an advisory. The results aren't binding and any outcome will be decided on by Parliament, the majority of whom are pro EU.

 

True, but it would be political suicide to ignore the outcome. Those who chose to ignore the public will would find themselves facing extreme hostility the next time they attempted to run for Parliament.

 

Even if Parliament decide to accept and act on the wishes of the electorate it doesn't necessarily mean the decision will be agreed on by the EU.

 

Somewhat irrelevent. Even if the EU attempted to overthrow the will of the British people Parliament would only have to repeal the EC Act of 1972 and the EU wouldn`t have a legal leg to stand on. But I don`t think they will interfere if the result is leave.

 

I see the following happening. If the result is close Dave will announce 'the British public have no clear consensus, we, therefore, vote to Remain'.

 

Cameron has already said he`ll act as the public wishes. Again, to ignore that mandate would be political suicide. We`ve already seen, with the emergency budget in the last couple of days that members of his own party are willing to block any proposals they take issue with. Cameron would be left with a crippled administration that could only pass legislation with Labour or SNP support.

 

If the result is in favour of Remain Dave will announce 'the British public have come out in favour of a clear mandate to Remain in EU and we, as elected representatives, act on their will'.

 

As he should

 

If the result is overridingly in favour of 'Brexit', Dave will announce 'the British public have chosen to leave the EU, we, as elected representatives, are duty bound to consider their wishes, however, we feel that they have been misled about many of the facts and benefits of EU membership and so we will vote on their decision (and they'll lose)'.

 

Won`t happen, for the reasons already discussed.

 

Cynical? Me?

 

Yes . . . and no doubt with good reason a lot of the time. But not this time imo. Cameron`s ambition and arrogance would have to be collossal to ignore the result of the referendum. He wouldn`t just split his party, he`d shatter it, along with British democracy, and I don`t believe he has that in mind.

 

But what they can do is slow things down to a snail's pace and the EU too can effectively act like it never heard the outcome. . Silent, sulky non co-operation, it won't be Cameron, he is out no matter what, but the Westminster machine can exact its own revenge by plain old fashioned awkwardness.

[12gauge82]

But what they can do is slow things down to a snail's pace and the EU too can effectively act like it never heard the outcome. . Silent, sulky non co-operation, it won't be Cameron, he is out no matter what, but the Westminster machine can exact its own revenge by plain old fashioned awkwardness.

That's one I hadn't thought of, I wouldn't put it past them

[wymberley]

Second or third stage of Marxist Revolution : Indoctrinate the school kids.

Sixth or seventh, disarm the civilian population.

[Granett]

Yeah, that's right - after Brexit, the years of turmoil we suffer will be the fault of those damn Frenchies and sausage-eaters, not Nig and his Little-Englanders.

 

The Brexit subset overlaps so much with that subset that bang on about "'Elf 'n safety gone mad, innit" then sue their employer the moment they do their back in.

[Penelope]

My GF's two children go to local grammars, there has been a lot of brainwashing. Her son watched the Paxman programme a few weeks ago and is now out, her daughter (the eldest) is a rabid remainer. Sovereignty and country mean nothing to her, she is a globalist and can't see any reason why the world cannot come here or why we should be able to make our own decisions as a country. she is 18, in her final year and can vote. Oh, the ideals of youth.

 

At the general election the seniors at my sons school (13-18)had a mock election and were 70% UKIP. However they just had a mock referendum and were 70% remain. I find that strange to reconcile.

My son (who is 12 in two weeks) is strongly remain. Far more opinionated than I would have expected.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Penelope