Brexit - Merged Threads

[Gordon R]

Granett - your talent for saying much, but saying little, is unsurpassed.

[Granett]

Granett - your talent for saying much, but saying little, is unsurpassed.

Glib, and populist - I can see why you'd idolise Farage.

[12gauge82]

Nicks, the voice of reason.

 

Granett, you have continuously posted people out of context even cutting bits out of quotes to make it appear people have said or meant something they haven't, you've made disscusting allegations that have no base in fact and you now play the victim, have you thought, when it seems like everyone is against you, maybe it's not that everyone is wrong but that you are?

[Rewulf]

Rewulf, he asked if all my family were white, not black. His point was he same. Your refusal to acknowledge that and the continued refusal of everyone else to address the racism here makes it harder to deny racism was a contributing factor in votes to leave.

 

You stated you were asked if you were black,no,its not the same..at all,rodp did not even mean what you think he meant anyway.

We have mods on here that will not allow racist posts,they will be locked and deleted,stop trying to make out this is a racist forum.

 

I once patiently tried to explain to you about the logical fallacy inherent in asking someone to prove a negative, but you threw it back in my face with some cheap shot. On that basis Privett me there wasn't a racist element in your vote.

 

No,you didnt like what I said ,so you tried to cast it aside without answering it,and glibly tried to prove your point using silly a conundrum that made you look bonkers.

Racist ? 6 years ago ,I was married to a Pakistani,I have had African,Asian and Polish girlfriends,I have friends and associates from all creeds and colours.

Being a racist is not the way forward in this century,and for what its worth most true racists dont even know the meaning of the word.

 

As for the other comments, 12gauge82,you quoted a long post of rodp that contained a phrase "white British... You know the people who own this country"and commented" You beet (sic) me to it".

 

Then you got angry when I assumed that meant you were agreeing with his racist sentiment.

 

He got angry because you called him a racist,you said if we didnt all condemn his post ,we were all racists,did you not?

 

In terms of this thread generally, it's tricky to answer so many posts from so many different people having a go (Even when most are "Yeah, you sure showed him" - if this were a fight in a small country pub, its clear which posters would be the ones to hit the outsider first, and which would pile in once he was on the ground).

 

So we are still racists ,but violent and cowardly too?

 

Anyway stop the "you lost" posts. Your idol undermined the country's direction for a quarter of a century and his team did what they could to ensure Britain did as badly as possible whole going in the direction they objected to.

 

To insist that everyone is somehow now democratically endentured to making a go of Brexit is rank hypocrisy and intellectually bankrupt.

 

Your idea of reality is somewhat skewed.

I have no idols,I will say no more on that silly comment.

 

Yes we are 'democratically endentured ' ,thats how voting works,sorry about that.

 

But,again ! We were too stupid to vote out, according to you,absolutely priceless.

 

Why do you come on here if we are all so terrible?

[achosenman]

I suspect that's because he has an unshakable belief in his own superiority and has a burning desire to educate us poor misguided plebs.

[Rewulf]

 

I once patiently tried to explain to you about the logical fallacy inherent in asking someone to prove a negative,

 

 

 

 

I suspect that's because he has an unshakable belief in his own superiority and has a burning desire to educate us poor misguided plebs.

 

Yes, something like that.

[FalconFN]

I voted to remain as I feel that, as a country, we are better off as part of a larger community but that horse has now bolted and we have to make the best of what we have. Either side writing off the concerns and opinions of the other isn't going to help anyone. I am sure that it is more likely that racists/fascists will have voted to leave than to remain, as that is what those parties have been campaigning on for years, but that does not mean that everyone who who wanted to leave is racist or fascist.

 

I still think that we would be better off as a country had we decided to remain but that does not mean I am not deeply concerned about many aspects of the EU - you would have to be on the payroll not to be. A very strong argument for leaving is that we soon will not be part of that but the way business is conducted will still be influenced by EU policy. What I now hope for is that we have the political clout to harvest the golden opportunities that the leave campaign seem to feel are there for the taking. For that to happen, both sides of the campaign need to recognise that there are genuine differences of opinion but that they have to work hard for the future, not look back in anger.

Exactly my thoughts too.

[pinfireman]

It,s good to see that the government have decided to ignore the losers who signed a massive petition online for another referendum! It,s time to move on. China is already showing interest in signing up a trade deal with us, and more will soon follow. Whilst the EU is stagnating, the emerging economies like India and Brazil are the way to go.....huge populations. It reminds me of the story of the 2 shoe salesmen who years ago went to Brazil.......one sent a message home saying please recall me, as half the population do not wear shoes.....the other guy sent a telex home saying, "only half the population wear shoes, what an opportunity, send 50,000 pairs!"..

[pinfireman]

I agree with most of what you've said, but equally it shouldn't be tolerated when someone slings out words like racist because you share a different view from them, this is exactly what granett has done and it detracts from genuine cases. If you look back through the threads, you will also see him accusing everyone on the forum of threatening him, which was equally as ridiculous, so if it appears people are being harsh towards him, its probably because everyones had enough of the unfounded accusations from him.

Correct! And people should also recognise that most Europeans are "Caucasian" and therefore NOT a different race, so any remarks (other than direct abuse) aimed at them, are NOT racist! The same can be said of religion........race has NOTHING to do with religion.....again, direct abuse should not be tolerated, but having a different take on that religion should not be seen as racist.

 

Not so , the Conservative party was voted in not the pm.

 

Example ballot paper below

Correct!

 

Are you threatening me?

 

Only joking,but thats the sort of thing grannet was doing,he DID call us all racists,and he did say earlier he was asked by PW members if he was black,he also said on another thread he felt threatened..by people with guns!

 

None of these things happened.FACT.

I am not going to leave stuff like that unchallenged.

He is entitled to his opinion,as are you,no problem with that whatsoever.

I do have a problem with people who lie,distort facts and call me things, when they have no knowledge of who ,or what I am.

I try not to get argumentative for no apparent reason,and threads get locked for that sort of behaviour.

So hopefully we can get back on track with this one.

Well said!

Jaymo - why bring up the ethnicity of the two film stars? I rest my case.

 

With two posts under your belt, after swearing to cease posting. any chance of an immigration cap figure?

He will never do that, you have got him beat on that topic!

[pinfireman]

Gordon

You got me- one last post on these threads :-)

 

Pint offer was genuine- I could get my old game of battleships out and have a natter over a sup or two-- love a good face to face natter as tbh, these forums conjure up images but it's better to meet in real life.

 

 

But to your final post- now you know I said I was happy with the current figures but as your still subscribing to Area51.com and the like websites for your distrust of any Official Government figures is don't know what else to say ( you can't count the illegals as you put it as by the very fact they are illegal there exists no official data- for all we know there might only be one?)

 

Little edit- part of this post is for my old friend Gordon and the other part for Rewulf...

Only gave a fleeting glance before posting

Current figures are official figures......and we ALL know that they are wildly underestimated! Migrationwatch have CONSISTENTLY been correct with their figures!

i hate discrimination of any kind yet I voted to leave so i must be racist according to some, my question to the remainers has always been "so you think there should be no restriction on anyone who wants to enter Britain. should there be no barriers into the channel ports ?" their reply has alway been yes we should restrict some but !! this of course make them the same as the majority of Britain including farage

 

I am very happy for people to migrate to this country but feel that we should have a say in who

 

my main reason for voting to leave was that I distrust the politicians we already have why should i trust any more

 

sorry if this has been said already

Well said!

Jaymo - you are possibly the most evasive person I have encountered. Stop citing "current figures".

 

How many people can the UK properly stand - 65 million, 75 million, 85 million, 150 million? If you feel unable to answer, I will understand. Lifetime habits must be hard to break.

 

Three posts after leaving - still evading.

Keep up the pressure Gordon!

switzerland wants to come to London team up with Hong Kong and Singapore in the stockmarket this is since we had brexit will this reinforce our go it alone standing i hope so Also countries liming up to trade with us and the EU in meltdown glad were out

Correct!

[pinfireman]

Rewulf, he asked if all my family were white, not black. His point was he same. Your refusal to acknowledge that and the continued refusal of everyone else to address the racism here makes it harder to deny racism was a contributing factor in votes to leave.

 

I once patiently tried to explain to you about the logical fallacy inherent in asking someone to prove a negative, but you threw it back in my face with some cheap shot. On that basis Privett me there wasn't a racist element in your vote.

 

As for the other comments, 12gauge82,you quoted a long post of rodp that contained a phrase "white British... You know the people who own this country"and commented" You beet (sic) me to it".

 

Then you got angry when I assumed that meant you were agreeing with his racist sentiment.

 

In terms of this thread generally, it's tricky to answer so many posts from so many different people having a go (Even when most are "Yeah, you sure showed him" - if this were a fight in a small country pub, its clear which posters would be the ones to hit the outsider first, and which would pile in once he was on the ground).

 

Anyway stop the "you lost" posts. Your idol undermined the country's direction for a quarter of a century and his team did what they could to ensure Britain did as badly as possible whole going in the direction they objected to.

 

To insist that everyone is somehow now democratically endentured to making a go of Brexit is rank hypocrisy and intellectually bankrupt.

Rubbish! Utter rubbish! As for our "idol" undermining the country,s direction for 25 years, thats utter tripe! Nobody listened for the first 10 years, and most continued to laugh at him for the next 10 ! To paraphrase "They ain,t laughing now!" Britain WILL move forwards, and hopefully will rid itself of some of the dross that has turned up on these shores...."skilled workers indeed".....we do not NEED them, and we do not WANT them! And that is NOT racist, just REALIST!

Glib, and populist - I can see why you'd idolise Farage.

Misinformed, and nihilist.....can see why you didn,t!

[pinfireman]

That's very convenient Granett. The remainers argument that most voted for racist reasons cannot be proved or disproved as well you know. You and the rest of the elite, restating over and over and over again, does not make it true.

 

I voted out despite being in the top percentage pay wise. When you have the obscene amounts of money being self awarded to the few in the City, boardrooms and the corridors of power, while others lose pensions after a lifetime of work, is not going to be forgiven. Families having to use food banks while jobs go overseas because it means more profits, is also not going to be forgiven. Shipping in cheap workers from overseas to undercut employee's T&C's is what immigration is really about. People may not have a degree level education, but they know when those above are urinating on them. You cannot build an economy where the majority cannot participate and expect it to endure.

 

The Remain camp had pretty much everyone on their side. All the news media, most of the MP's, most foreign governments, every paid expert, all the quango's, the luvvies and their millionaire sycophants, the list is almost endless. If that wasn't enough, for a two hour outage, the registration site was kept open for another two days because it was believed to be in remains favour. Let's not forget the 600,000 voting cards sent out to EU citizens that weren't eligible to vote, "in error"

 

Despite all the above, you lost by 1.3 million, get over it.

 

I predict that if Brexit is fudged, the parties deemed guilty by the electorate will become extinct at the next election. Personally I would vote for the Devil himself as retribution.

Absolutely well said!

[pinfireman]

Do find it quite ironic that you should use a picture from the movie 'twins'

 

Featuring two gentlemen who are either first or second generation immigrants to term a better phrase for someone who decided to move to a foreign country-- suppose to would like them kicked out of the States too?

 

 

Now this really is my last post on this.........

Is it really your last post? Good!

[12gauge82]

More problems in the EU http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708357

[12gauge82]

Meanwhile..... http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/687844/IMF-EU-brink-of-collapse-euro-currency-scrapped

[achosenman]

Or even this. http://huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-turnout-young-people_uk_57813af5e4b074297db32456?edition=uk&ut

[UKPoacher]

Anybody seen this?

 

http://golden-dawn-international-newsroom.blogspot.fr/2013/01/the-coudenhove-kalergi-plan-genocide-of.html

[Gordon R]

Hilarious.

[Savhmr]

That's very convenient Granett. The remainers argument that most voted for racist reasons cannot be proved or disproved as well you know. You and the rest of the elite, restating over and over and over again, does not make it true.

 

I voted out despite being in the top percentage pay wise. When you have the obscene amounts of money being self awarded to the few in the City, boardrooms and the corridors of power, while others lose pensions after a lifetime of work, is not going to be forgiven. Families having to use food banks while jobs go overseas because it means more profits, is also not going to be forgiven. Shipping in cheap workers from overseas to undercut employee's T&C's is what immigration is really about. People may not have a degree level education, but they know when those above are urinating on them. You cannot build an economy where the majority cannot participate and expect it to endure.

 

The Remain camp had pretty much everyone on their side. All the news media, most of the MP's, most foreign governments, every paid expert, all the quango's, the luvvies and their millionaire sycophants, the list is almost endless. If that wasn't enough, for a two hour outage, the registration site was kept open for another two days because it was believed to be in remains favour. Let's not forget the 600,000 voting cards sent out to EU citizens that weren't eligible to vote, "in error"

 

Despite all the above, you lost by 1.3 million, get over it.

 

I predict that if Brexit is fudged, the parties deemed guilty by the electorate will become extinct at the next election. Personally I would vote for the Devil himself as retribution.

 

Just catching up with this thread, but that is an excellent post and reflects some of my own reasons for wanting us out of the EU. Truth is that capitalism working the way it does tends to make the rich powerful and the powerful rich. It also tends to reward those taking a risk and making money and money is a heck of a motivator. We still need capitalism as without it, we'd be a poor excuse for a trading nation, but I feel therein lies a dichotomy as this is where society has lost touch with itself. Any sense of moral compass or social justice tends to be limited to bleeding heart PC populist causes these days, the sort of things championed perhaps by the Guardian or similar rags.

 

The real issue of looking out for each other, irrespective of who our neighbour is has been overshadowed by the sense of self protectionism simply because we have created such a divide in the fortunes of the population. Some of this is due in no small part to the fact that as a relatively small island nation, we are also host to 67 million people and growing. Elitists have fooled us into thinking that they have been fit for office for several decades now, and it really hasn't been since the demise of the old guard Tory and Labour Grandees, pre Bliar, that we have had many politicians worth their salt. Most since then seem to be self-serving elitist populists with little or no real talents in running a country and putting the needs and futures of that country's inhabitants before "self". None more so than that awful man Blair who reinvented politics as the biggest and most brazen business opportunity for "self" ever made in British politics. Cameron, far from doing the decent thing by stepping down, simply underlined what a self serving tw~t he really is, throwing rattles out of his pram because he no longer will hold the top job instead of uniting the party and doing his best by the electorate.

 

Back to Brexit though. The sense of betrayal by the current state of British politics no doubt counted for a lot of protest votes. A vote for "Out" was, in some small part, also a vote of no-confidence in current politics BUT the over-rising feeling amongst those I speak with for voting "out" was also the sense of helplessness at being dragged ever closer to a political union they did NOT want and did NOT vote for, with everything that comes with it. Despite the spin to the contrary (and yes, every point can be argued to death) we have slowly had many freedoms eroded, our armed forces dumbed down, our politicians made less relevant to the direction we're being taken in, and all the time, the Eurzone is becoming a ticking time bomb waiting to implode. That's happening, that's real. Many voted out simply because voting to remain was simply not an option in the medium to long term. Contrary to dashing the hopes of our young, the vote to leave was, I suspect, taking by many as the only real hope for the next generation longer term.

 

We have been living in a false bubble for a decade or so wrt the economy and things, I am afraid, are unlikely to ever be as good in my lifetime again, but hopefully will be for my youngsters. The cost, in real terms of just about everything is at an all time low from TVs to cars to bread to the clothes on your backs. Trade deals within the EU and freedom of movement have only resulted in the poorer moving to where the money is, and many within certain fields of industry within the UK have also moved to where even more money is on mainland Europe. the problem with this as a federal model is that it NEVER does the parent country's interests much good long term. Lithuania and Romania will not benefit from the saving capitalist graces of economic growth if half their working age populations migrate to Germany, France and the UK, they will simply get poorer as a nation. They will continue to remain as net "takers" from the net contributors such as ourselves. We subsidise their economies as a condition of membership and that will continue until we are bled dry. That is just the way things are and you can't blame those affected for wanting a better future except it has already reached the state in many parts of the UK where the degree of immigration over the past decade has directly resulted in a shortage of minimum wage jobs for our own at that level, so the model does us no good either longer term.

 

Allied to all of the above is the drain on the Uk of our membership. Yes, we benefit from EFTA but we also are governed by faceless bureaucrats earning almost triple the salary of our own PM, with great white elephant structures and homages costing hundreds of millions of EU taxpayers money going in homage to the great EU experiment in pointless buildings and facades and self promoting nonsense. It is wholly immoral. The environmental destruction of our fishing waters and industry, the loss of sovereignty, the real cost of membership and the likely certain and short lived future of the Eurozone are all primary motivating factors in many "leavers" voting out, and not any populist spin invented racism card. That may be true of some small minded racist right wing thugs with two brain cells between the lot of them, including the BNP mentality thugs, but you simply cannot label those of us with real and sincere worries over the current state of uncontrolled UK immigration in anything like the same light.

 

The leave vote I feel is genuinely a multifaceted one. Whilst my wife and I are now trembling about the financial uncertainty that we have created for ourselves by voting to leave, we still have no regrets as it was the right thing to do in our humble opinions. It's just a shame that we didn't have any real professionals or grown -ups in charge of the country to see it through and offer us some stability. Our biggest fear now is that we have a front runner in May who's aide has already hinted that another referendum isn't out of the question, so the likelihood is that should that happen, we will be left in no-man's land with zero bargaining power in the EU if we remain, an increase in our payments and decrease in our vetos, or there will be such a sustained period of uncertainty that it will bankrupt us all whilst the idiots at the top continue to play "Elitist top-trumps". I hope not. We'll see.

 

Many of those those who voted Remain can see this, and many, I suspect, just want us all to get on with it to recover some semblance of certainty and respect, especially given that our future now depends on our status from this point on. Back-tracking would be disastrous and only those of an unfortunate bent towards federalism at any cost will be so closed-minded as to not accept this point. The best that any of us can hope for is that we (ie Europeans) all see sense and return to a common market in the longer term and if the Euro zone fails, then that is very likely to happen.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Savhmr

[Danger-Mouse]

Excellent post Savhmr.

[Danger-Mouse]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36760859

 

Although the UK is leaving the EU, "we are not quitting the world", he (George Osborne) said.

 

The chancellor said the UK would continue to be "a beacon for free trade, democracy and security, more open to that world than ever".

 

Thanks George. Nice that you`ve decided to agree with what we`ve said all along.

[KFC]

So will any investigation include misrepresentations by the Bremainers?

 

The main misrepresentation being that Cameron said he would do what ever the country decided then ran for the exit as fast as anyone can when they've had their trousers pulled down.

 

 

 

http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-vote-not-legally-binding-say-lawyers-10498256

[chrisjh]

I see a 1000 Barristers have informed the PM the Brexit vote isnt legal and needs a review by the "grown ups" i cant see Brexit happening this is going to be talked out and common sense will prevail

Edited July 11, 2016 by chrisjh

[Yellow Bear]

I see a 1000 Barristers have informed the PM the Brexit vote isnt legal and needs a review by the "grown ups" i cant see Brexit happening this is going to be talked out and common sense will prevail

Straws and grasp spring to mind - How convenient,exactly 1000 with no report on how many were polled - never mind 1100 will come along soon and say the opposite.

[achosenman]

I see a 1000 Barristers have informed the PM the Brexit vote isnt legal and needs a review by the "grown ups" i cant see Brexit happening this is going to be talked out and common sense will prevail

 

The trouble with Barristers is they're not elected. They make huge amounts twisting the original intentions of those that make the law. Any Political party will be extinct at the next general election if they backtrack.