What 20gauge cartridges

[Beagrie92]

Hi there just wondering what shells you are using on pigeons and pheasants through a 20gauge. I was thinking 30gram 6 or 30gram 5

[casts_by_fly]

28 g 6's is my standard load. If I were decoying them I would drop to 24 g.

 

Rick

Edited January 2, 2017 by casts_by_fly

[ChrisPCarter]

I usually use 28g 6 or 30g 5 but occasionally 32g 5 on pheasants.

Depends how heavy your gun is as 30g plus is pretty hefty for a 20 and you may as well use a 12 gauge really.

Most newer 20 gauge guns seem to be fairly heavy these days.

I would use lighter loads in a 20g side by side.

[Beagrie92]

I think I'll try some 30gram 5 as I think they would be a more all round shell. I've always shot a 12 gauge for all my shooting but fancied a 20gauge so just looking for some advice

Edited January 3, 2017 by Beagrie92

[Wilts#Dave]

26/28g RC Sipe in 5 or 6 should be adequate, on pigeons more than enough and pheasants likewise on anything but sky high birds! It gets very expensive using the big loads too.

Using 12 bore loads through a 20bore defeats the object of them, for me anyway.

I love their fast handling characteristics though, I wouldn't want a heavy one that's for sure!

Edited January 3, 2017 by Wilts#Dave

[Whitebridges]

Hi there just wondering what shells you are using on pigeons and pheasants through a 20gauge. I was thinking 30gram 6 or 30gram 5

What gun do you shoot?

[dougall]

25g 6/7s for pigeons; 28g/6s(RC SIPE fibre)pheasant...the SIPE are not cheap but I really like them alot.

[BrowningDJC]

26 gram fibre RC sipe in 6's or 7's work very well for me. The 28 gram also work well. Second choice would be eley vip 28 gram 6 fibre.

[matone]

Not again..........lol.

[Beagrie92]

What gun do you shoot?

Browning 725 black gold

[Big Mat]

I only use cartridges between 21g and 28g in the 20 bore. Cannot see the point of shooting a 12 bore load in a smaller gun

[Whitebridges]

Browning 725 black gold

You should be fine with a heavier cartridge . RC20 T3 28g in No6.

[Beagrie92]

You should be fine with a heavier cartridge . RC20 T3 28g in No6.

thanks

[fortune]

Not again..........lol.

 

 

I only use cartridges between 21g and 28g in the 20 bore. Cannot see the point of shooting a 12 bore load in a smaller gun

Light gun, light loads.

[Continental Shooter]

I reload my own but never above 27.5 gr unless i am roosting or expecting high birds.

 

I always have a 30gr with me but that's becasue i can walk up a duck, pheasant or hareand the odd fox

 

if over decoys 28 is enough, and if you're expecting numbers i'd go for a little less than that; certainly not 30gr or you will end up with headaches after a few shots

 

shot size, in lead, i'd go for #5 (for the above reason) but found that on decoying pigeons 6-7 are also good enough.

[getthegat]

Sorry for being dim here, but I don't quite understand the 12 gauge size with a 20 bore cartridge. What are the internal differences of for instance a 30 grm #6 in 12 and 20 gauge? The amount and size of shot I assume is equal, but surely the charge has to be less in the 20 making it less on hitting power and range, or is this incorrect?

[johnnytheboy]

Seen my friend use 28g mirage to deadly affect on pheasants shot size 5, and the same cartridge in 7.5 on clays

[wymberley]

Sorry for being dim here, but I don't quite understand the 12 gauge size with a 20 bore cartridge. What are the internal differences of for instance a 30 grm #6 in 12 and 20 gauge? The amount and size of shot I assume is equal, but surely the charge has to be less in the 20 making it less on hitting power and range, or is this incorrect?

Incorrect.

The old 96 to 1 rule is a starter for ten. The 96 being the weight of the gun and the 1 being the weight of the load. So, for example, a 1 oz load would mean a 96 divided by 16 equals a 6 lb gun. In more recent years though the trend is to increase the 96 figure.

[neutron619]

Sorry for being dim here, but I don't quite understand the 12 gauge size with a 20 bore cartridge. What are the internal differences of for instance a 30 grm #6 in 12 and 20 gauge? The amount and size of shot I assume is equal, but surely the charge has to be less in the 20 making it less on hitting power and range, or is this incorrect?

 

In the days of black powder, this was fairly well true. Nowadays, with smokeless, you can work around pressure problems / velocity issues pretty well by changing the powder to get the same load to the same velocity - within reason. Ultimately, the 20 gauge is a smaller case and therefore will produce higher pressures if all other things were kept equal - powder, shot weight, shot column components. You wouldn't create identical loads in both gauges, but if you did, the 12 gauge would be more efficient and likely run at lower pressure (no guarantees - it's all a bit of a black art).

 

None of that really matters. The biggest difference, which might matter, is the shot column geometry. The 20ga will put more pellets in contact with the barrel walls and, being smaller, will crush at the choke proportionately harder for the same load / shot size, though there's not much in the latter effect between 12ga and 20ga. (12ga and .410 would be another matter.) This scrubbing / crushing will deform pellets, possibly causing them to fly out of the usable pattern faster.

 

You would therefore, in general, expect 30g/#6 from a 12 gauge to give a better performance (i.e. percentage of pellets in a given circle around the point of aim, at a given range) than the same load from a 20 gauge. Since the components of each imaginary cartridge are different, there are no guarantees - one can't do a direct comparison. Again, it's easier to see this stuff comparing a really big tube (i.e. 10 gauge) with a really small one (.410) - it makes the effects more obvious.

 

I personally wouldn't shoot more than 25g or so in a 20 gauge, but I also own a 16 gauge and two 12 gauges, so if I want 28g of some shot size, I use the 16 and if I want 32g+, I use the 12. (Much easier to find one cartridge that performs really well, per gun, then change guns.) If you don't have that luxury, shoot heavier cartridges in the 20 gauge as you propose. If you aren't recoil-sensitive, it'll make no difference, gun weighing 6lbs or 8lbs. By and large, however, the cartridges will be much more expensive and you won't notice any difference on the birds. Until you get down to 21-23g of shot, nothing in #6, for example, will be at all marginal for 99% of the shots you'll take.

 

Good luck.

Edited May 11, 2017 by neutron619

[Guest cookoff013]

Sorry for being dim here, but I don't quite understand the 12 gauge size with a 20 bore cartridge. What are the internal differences of for instance a 30 grm #6 in 12 and 20 gauge? The amount and size of shot I assume is equal, but surely the charge has to be less in the 20 making it less on hitting power and range, or is this incorrect?

 

no, not dim,

the modern era of shotguns are lighter loads but faster. in the "good old days" an ounce was standard in a 20, bt it wasnt going that fast. just as 1,1/8oz is standard in a 12. now everything is backed off to the nth degree to achieve 1400fps or 1600fps at the cheapest cost. 1400fps being standard.

 

i`d put my money on a 32g 1100fps load any day of the week compard to 1oz at 1500fps.

horses and courses.

[neutron619]

 

no, not dim,

the modern era of shotguns are lighter loads but faster. in the "good old days" an ounce was standard in a 20, bt it wasnt going that fast. just as 1,1/8oz is standard in a 12. now everything is backed off to the nth degree to achieve 1400fps or 1600fps at the cheapest cost. 1400fps being standard.

 

i`d put my money on a 32g 1100fps load any day of the week compard to 1oz at 1500fps.

horses and courses.

 

Broadly agree with cookoff, except to say that the Americans had (and still have) the idea of a "low brass" and "high brass" load for each gauge.

 

In 20 gauge, the "low brass" (i.e. cheaper, less "powerful" - beware that way of describing it please!) load was 7/8oz - 24g. That number was probably arrived at as being a "square" load - a whole other topic, but broadly, a shot charge that should be maximally efficient in a tube of the particular size.

 

The "high brass" load was the load where you stuffed in more shot and more powder to push it, to give you as much effective range / as many pellets on target as possible - albeit at the risk of increased recoil and lesser performance, percentage-wise, than the low brass load.

 

In 20 gauge, the "high brass" load has traditionally been 1oz (or possibly 1 1/16oz).

 

Low and high brass were occasionally used in a literal sense so that hunters could quickly identify which of a mix of shells they were taking from a pocket, without having to read the sides of the case.

 

To further explain the comments above, the 12 gauge "low brass" load was traditionally 1 1/8oz and the "high brass" load was 1¼oz (or more). When people talk about putting a 12 gauge load in a 20 gauge gun, this is what they mean - a shot charge traditionally intended for a much larger bore, stuffed into a small case.

 

By the way - I'd have a look at these. I'd still stick with 24/25g of #6 (or possibly #5, though that's a pretty sparse pattern) for my own use, but if you want to shoot "high brass", these are good on paper:

 

http://www.eleyhawkltd.com/products/game-cartridges/hi-flyer

 

I've used the 12 gauge version in the past and they were exceptional.

Edited May 12, 2017 by neutron619

[Guest cookoff013]

yep, while i agree with everything, it still grats me the "high brass and low brass" names..

 

while yes the longer brass are more expensive and give a better look of higher quality. the low brass can still perform as much as..

 

the european hulls can be 8-10-12-mm and some cases (excuse the pun) higher at 25mm.

 

i just love the big ol slow loads, they are a treat to shoot.

[wymberley]

Daft isn't it. Look at the difference in the terminal velocity between a fast load and a slow load downrange where it matters and it's of no real consequence. The former probably accounts for the increase in the "96" figure. Nothing will change, though, until the interest in pattern testing is rejuvenated and people start to realise the advantages of 'slow'. Just my opinion.

[neutron619]

Well those of us in the know will keep banging the drum and perhaps one day we'll persuade enough people to shift the market lol.

 

Or perhaps shiny marketing and willful ignorance will win out... It usually does.

 

We shall see.

 

(Interesting though, isn't it, that it's a peculiarly English disease, this "speed" thing.)

Edited May 12, 2017 by neutron619

[Salop Matt]

My 20 bore weighs in at 7lb 3oz, its 30" barrels and I really like it, I`ve not had it long but now I use the 12 for clays only and the 20 for all my game.

 

I use Gamebore Black Gold 30gram fibre wad 6`s (5.5 really) recoil is fine. I am currently choked with Teagues at Half in both barrels but this is producing good tight patterns tighter than I need to am thinking of new Teagues at Skeet in both barrels or quarter in both. I buy one cartridge and stick to it, 12bore Gamebore Evo`s plas wad 7.5 28g and the above for 20 bore. Granted if I was going decoying I would find the cheapest 24/26gram fibre 6`s i could as ranges would be close and unobstructed, but I don`t go decoying so this is not an issue for me.

 

I don`t think in a modern 20bore 30 gram is that big, when you think about it. After all not 20 years ago the most standard load must have been 30gram 6`s and through light sub 7lb side-by-sides.

Now there are cartridges aimed for pigeon shooting(12bore) are going to 34 gram 5`s with game cartridges going up to 36gram 4`s but we hear of 40+ gram 3`s and 4`s pushed threw full chokes on occasion.

Last season I saw a guy using 36 gram 6`s threw a light side by side on a 200bird day.

So proportionately in 20 bore moving from a 26/28gram load to a 30gram load isn't such a big step also considering the half pound heavier gun. But this is just my opinion