Grange1905 Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Hi guys, Whilst waiting for my FEO to call round I've got a couple of questions that are bothering me: At what distance would you be happy to shoot towards a house or a road with 12bore? I know there isn't a straight forward answer, but would be interesting to know some opinions. The second question is what is the law regarding shooting on hotel grounds? As much as I came across - hotel land is private land, but since the general public have access to it are you allowed to legally shoot on it? A friend of mine is tearing his last hairs of his head, as the rabbits have dug holes everywhere possible, with the help of moles the gardens look like a mine field! Also, there are a few foxes around and as you can guess - droppings all round the place, especialy around the apple trees. All comments appreciated! Edited March 28, 2017 by Grange1905 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Set up catch up traps for the rabbits and leave the foxes alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Set up catch up traps for the rabbits and leave the foxes alone. ^^^ THIS ^^^ Foxy will take some rabbits and moles, so is a help. As for fox poo, just clear it up using loose soil or sand and a shovel Plus, maybe use an air rifle [quiet] to shoot the rabbits ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Any private land to which the public have legal access at the relevant time is considered as public land. For example, I've shot fox in and around the farmyard (free range chickens) but part of the area is where customers park for the farm shop. Outside of opening hours it's private, within hours it's public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grange1905 Posted March 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 As the gardens aren't massive I would use an airgun,rather than a shotgun ( probably would end up causing as much damage with a shotgun). So what is the actual situation? Even during the night the guests can go out for a walk/smoke outside, so technicaly its public land 24/7? The gardener strugles with traps for moles, as people keep interfering with them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 As the gardens aren't massive I would use an airgun,rather than a shotgun ( probably would end up causing as much damage with a shotgun). So what is the actual situation? Even during the night the guests can go out for a walk/smoke outside, so technicaly its public land 24/7? The gardener strugles with traps for moles, as people keep interfering with them.. I dont see it as any different from most other places. Most farms have footpaths and the public could go for a walk at anytime. With any firearms you must make sure it is safe to discharge even on the quietest piece of land. If it really so busy trapping must be the way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Hi guys, Whilst waiting for my FEO to call round I've got a couple of questions that are bothering me: At what distance would you be happy to shoot towards a house or a road with 12bore? I know there isn't a straight forward answer, but would be interesting to know some opinions. The second question is what is the law regarding shooting on hotel grounds? As much as I came across - hotel land is private land, but since the general public have access to it are you allowed to legally shoot on it? A friend of mine is tearing his last hairs of his head, as the rabbits have dug holes everywhere possible, with the help of moles the gardens look like a mine field! Also, there are a few foxes around and as you can guess - droppings all round the place, especialy around the apple trees. All comments appreciated! The range for shot fall out for a 12g Shotgun is approximately 300 yards (275 Metres). If you are shooting towards a Road or House I would leave quiet a lot more than the 300 yards, in fact you would be well advised not to shoot in that direction. Advice on this thread so far has been very good you would be wise to take it on board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovercoupe Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 My biggest issue would be people who love the fluffy bunnies and if seen shooting them might give you a load a grief, A silenced air rifle would be my go to tool for the job. Can the grounds be made out of bounds for a few times due to "groundworks" so you can work without bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manthing Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Was actually talking to a clay shoot owner on Sunday and the short answer is 300 yards is considered the safe distance to a road. He has a stand at 310y but wants to extend the carpark, which would mean moving the stand to shoot diagonally across the field. As for the raddits, go for the moderated air rifle, NV may be better if their are patrons around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Pretty sure that distance depends on the size of shot. Size 6 won't go as far as sg for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manthing Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Quiet probably. Normal clay shot is 28g 6.5, would a slug do over 300 yards? Probably going off topic there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Obviously a slug would travel over 300 yards, given the correct trajectory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grange1905 Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 The range for shot fall out for a 12g Shotgun is approximately 300 yards (275 Metres). If you are shooting towards a Road or House I would leave quiet a lot more than the 300 yards, in fact you would be well advised not to shoot in that direction. Advice on this thread so far has been very good you would be wise to take it on board Actualy there is a house or road in every direction if you think about it, so if I left 0.5 mile Im guessing that would be safe enough? Also - what are the rules on shooting towards telephone wires? I tought that should be avoided, but saw a fair few people shooting towards them (150-200 ish yards) ? As I am very keen to learn, I appreciate all the comments, would like to be a responsible shooter, rather than set a bad example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Journee did some research into calculating the distance shot will travel , it is old data but still useful e.g. multiply the shot diameter by 2200 will give an approximation of the maximum range a shot will travel. Number 6 shot is 0.11" x2200 = 242 yards. Number 3 shot ( Fox) is 0.13" x 2200 = 286 yards factor in 25% safety margin to account for following wind and we have a figure of 357.5 yards for Number 3 shot. So be very careful. Careful trapping and legal snaring could possibly be a far better , quieter solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 If there are rabbit burrows have you thought about getting the ferret lads in on a quiet day.You could Potentially get rid off the problem in a couple of sessions. It would be my 1st option before even thinking about shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Obviously a slug would travel over 300 yards, given the correct trajectory. One of the lighter (438grains) and slower (1256 ft/sec) versions of the Brenneke will travel 1000 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grange1905 Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 If there are rabbit burrows have you thought about getting the ferret lads in on a quiet day.You could Potentially get rid off the problem in a couple of sessions. It would be my 1st option before even thinking about shooting. I did suggest ferrets to the owner, but hes rather stubborn and doesnt want anyone he doesnt know personaly. Ill go round with my pcp when its quiet, as the staff can let me know if anyone is around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) I did suggest ferrets to the owner, but hes rather stubborn and doesnt want anyone he doesnt know personaly. Ill go round with my pcp when its quiet, as the staff can let me know if anyone is around. Mate used to clear rabbits in Preston Park after gates close.Police had to informed prior. Gen public and dog walkers still used to gain access.Phil used to take a couple of guys down with him(only Phil shooting None FAC air).Mates would have his area taped off with a sign saying authorised pest control being carried out.The would be on the taped off footpaths stopping anyone entering. It can be done but needs to be co ordinated correctly. Edited March 29, 2017 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) I have a shooting permission on Aldi uk office car park. It's a weird feeling with staff around trust me but it's private land and the land owner wants the rabbits gone. I shoot ferals for letting agents locally and public have access there but it's private land again . Every farm I shoot has public footpaths on them but I just assess the situation before I take any shoots each time. Have you tried snaring the bunnies? We used to use them although it was 15 years ago lol. It works well with practice but just keep within the laws. Are you a member of basc ? If not I'd make sure you've shooting insurance just in case . Edited March 30, 2017 by team tractor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grange1905 Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Fully insured. Snaring seems like an option, until you find out that the owners jack russell loves to look for bunnies unatended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) I reckon Ferretting would be your best option Edited March 30, 2017 by bakerboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 If the hotel owner is 'tearing his hair out' then he should be happy to get Ferrets in. Do you not know someone who you could recommend ? If he wants to sort it he needs to act instead of putting up barriers or live with the fact he has rabbits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) Journee did some research into calculating the distance shot will travel , it is old data but still useful e.g. multiply the shot diameter by 2200 will give an approximation of the maximum range a shot will travel. Number 6 shot is 0.11" x2200 = 242 yards. Number 3 shot ( Fox) is 0.13" x 2200 = 286 yards factor in 25% safety margin to account for following wind and we have a figure of 357.5 yards for Number 3 shot. So be very careful. Careful trapping and legal snaring could possibly be a far better , quieter solution. I don't want to sound like a cowboy here - the previous advice is good, and safety is key here - but better approximations and more accurate experiments and calculations have been done since the Journee estimations. Assuming no wind / safety margin, UK #6 should come down in a little over 200 yards at optimum angle of elevation. UK #5 in around 220-230yards and proportionately further with each increase in shot size. #9-#7 will struggle to get beyond 200 - and if you've ever been to a clay ground and been hit by shot-fall you'll know that even at 100 yards or a little less, clay-size shot is unlikely to do much damage - though it'll sting a bit if it hits you. The Egyptian police, amongst others, use shotguns loaded with bird shot for riot control. Make of that what you want to, but I understand that in the recent pro-Mubarak riots, most protesters escaped without injury, in spite of hundreds of police peppering them with bird shot at various ranges. I am not saying that you should be anything other than cautious and seen to be safe. But choosing small shot can allow the safe use of a shotgun in some quite restricted (relatively speaking) spaces provided environmental conditions are amenable. That said, those safety margins / accounting for wind are very important. 300 yards is a good rule of thumb for bird shot, but I have to say that the figures given for #3 shot look a little on the low side for me. I'm assuming you won't be using shot that large on birds (and therefore be propelling it into the air) but I'd be looking for 400 yards minimum with anything that big. Maybe further. For anything really big you should be treating it like a rifle, really, and not pointing it above the horizon - SG's / slugs will go a long, long way. In the end, be sensible. I don't take shots towards power lines, roads, houses, etc. unless I'm absolutely sure I'm out of range because I'm terrified of what might happen if someone / something got hit. I lose a few birds because of this approach and that's the way it goes. On the other hand, unless you hit the glass insulators on a power line mast, or stand closer than 200 yards and fire at the windows of houses (I doubt #6 would break windows at that range, but don't for God's sake test that theory!), you're very unlikely to get into any trouble with it. Get to know - one way or another - what 300 yards looks like, out in the field, and then shoot when you have that much space. Don't shoot when you don't. Simples. Edited March 30, 2017 by neutron619 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 A convenient and fairly accurate guide to shot travel is 1500 divided by cube root 'n' where 'n' is the number of pellets/ounce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grange1905 Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Im only asking so that Im safe and responsible when I get out on the field. I wouldnt like to misrepresent the shooting society by being unsafe and possibly endangering others. With regards to bunnies, quickly popped out early morning before work, got 9 in an hour or so. There is a line of yews that were cut incorrectly and grew to the sides, so they act almost as a high seat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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