Jaymo Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 It is highly likely that there were no communal fire extinguishers (usually discharged for a laugh or heaved from the top floor for the same reason). The whole tragedy is clearly TM's fault and would have been avoided if we had only seen sense and voted for JC and Remain Did you forget your 'sun hat' again :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 Again, what evidence is there that's what happened and its not just hearsay. ? What sort of evidence would you like? it is being widely reported and has been since the fire started Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 Has Theresa May been loitering around Kensington with a box of matches or have I misunderstood some of the comments on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 I'm sure they showed another tower block near by that had no fire alarm or extinguishers and was supposed to be same or similar, possibly with same cladding. Was £5 million not made available to help get things sorted. People are being worked up by trouble causing muppets, me and the misses watched quite a bit last week on the news, saw the interview a couple of times about fridge on fire and someone kicking doors to warn people. I can understand people want answers but was the building not built in the 70s how is that the fault of anyone in government today? It's gonna get worse you watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 I'm sure they showed another tower block near by that had no fire alarm or extinguishers and was supposed to be same or similar, possibly with same cladding. Was £5 million not made available to help get things sorted. People are being worked up by trouble causing muppets, me and the misses watched quite a bit last week on the news, saw the interview a couple of times about fridge on fire and someone kicking doors to warn people. I can understand people want answers but was the building not built in the 70s how is that the fault of anyone in government today? It's gonna get worse you watch There is a genuine issue with the housing association if it is true that several people and the residents association made complaints and brought up safety issues several times. Claims are being made that the elected head of the residents association was threatened by employees of the housing association. If true I can't see how they can get off without a charge of corporate manslaughter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) A couple of times yesterday on the radio reference was made to the size of the saleries that Tenant Members of the housing association were paid and the fact that they were largely unqualified. Now I don't necessarily know if this is true or relevant but it needs to be made public. It increases the suspicion that the whole thing was rotten to the core. Edited June 18, 2017 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 We should all be aware this sort of tragedy is nothing to do with ordinary people! We the ordinary people provide the money, we do not have any say in how it is spent.....the Government we elect control the purse strings and decide how much money to give, for what and to whom, the money given by central government to the local authority (who's politicians are again elected by us) is distributed and spent however the local authority politicians choose! Corruption of one sort or another and self interest is endemic in a democracy......we all suffer the results! Politicians both national and local are largely unaccountable to us the electorate, except at the ballot box at the end of their term in office, but are never truly accountable, and of course the politicians can hand out, as they see fit any amount of our money in order to hide their culpability and cover up their incompetence and/or wrongdoing! We elect and give our trust to politicians to look after and run the country in the people's interests.......they continually fail because of corruption, incompetence, political necessity and self interest! If the materials used in the refurb of these flats is found to be responsible for this horrific loss of life, remember the politicians have spent an amount they decided of our money for a flat refurb............the people they employ to specify and ensure the work is to specification (officers) and the people they decided to employ (contractors) to Carry out the work have all failed.............for whatever reason?....I would hazard a guess that money is at the root of it! Don't hold your breath for the truth to come out.....I suspect all we will get is a politically convenient answer.........and possibly a scapegoat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 I think there will be failings at every level, the problem being that for every level higher the failings are compounded by virtue of the failing before. The same can be applied to every service and industry, you can only work with the information provided at the time and rely on the fact that that information is relevant and correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) They'll all start blaming each other & looking for a patsy. One local cited £10 mill was allocated for the refurb, but only £8,400,000 spent, askied where the rest of the money had gone because it could have been used for a sprinkler system which would have cost £200 grand. I can see it kicking off big time... Edited June 18, 2017 by Bazooka Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) ordnance, on 17 Jun 2017 - 10:44 PM, said: Again, what evidence is there that's what happened and its not just hearsay. ? Vince GreenWhat sort of evidence would you like? it is being widely reported and has been since the fire started. Reported by official sources the fire brigade police etc, or the media. ? Edited June 18, 2017 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 I think there will be failings at every level, the problem being that for every level higher the failings are compounded by virtue of the failing before. The same can be applied to every service and industry, you can only work with the information provided at the time and rely on the fact that that information is relevant and correct If you are paid to do a job at whatever level, you should be capeable of doing that job, and accountable for any mistakes and failings.....unfortunately accountability is passed down to lower levels (like health and safety!) and it's those higher up the food chain that make sure they keep themselves out of the smelly stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzicat Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 Every council in England used to have a disasters emergency officer who was supposed to coordinate all resources in the event of a happening like Grenfell. Does Kensington not have one or was he asleep for 3 days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 Every council in England used to have a disasters emergency officer who was supposed to coordinate all resources in the event of a happening like Grenfell. Does Kensington not have one or was he asleep for 3 days I was thinking the same There is/was 3 emergency planing centers in east sussex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 If you are paid to do a job at whatever level, you should be capeable of doing that job, and accountable for any mistakes and failings.....unfortunately accountability is passed down to lower levels (like health and safety!) and it's those higher up the food chain that make sure they keep themselves out of the smelly stuff! Yes, ultimately the blame lays on the shoulders of the CEO or the such, but they can only act on the information they are provided with - and they probably are capable of doing that job using the information provided. In this example i very much doubt the CEO will be an expert in Fire Suppression, External Cladding, Roofing, Sewage, High Rise Buildings, Terraced Houses, and Bungalows amongst all the other things that are in their portfolio, hence you have managers and people experienced in those fields. In my experience accountability works up as well as down, you cannot act on something you had no information on - if the board sat and was given the options then made the choice then they should carry the can. On a side note if i recall a fire surveyor on Sky News in England there is no statute requirement for a building of less than 30 (or 31) floors to have a sprinkler system (in Scotland its 18?) and due to the design concrete slab high rises are actually relativity safe so it all points at the cladding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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