Game prices

[bostonmick]

Talking to a game dealer today he is not taking any partridge in as no market for them.also said he would not even take them for free as it would cost him to get rid of them.so if this is the general state of thingsi do hope that we don't see birds being dumped for the anti's to make news of.

[ips]

Indeed. Its a bad bad situation we are in 😞

[wisdom]

It's a real shame because chef Brian Turner had a great partridge recipe on James Martin's new tv show.Promoting it as a tasty game bird for people to try.

Maybe we could somehow get some more tv chefs to promote game.

Edited September 10, 2017 by wisdom

[Whitebridges]

Tragic news for game shooting. There needs to be a market for these birds.

[ShootingEgg]

Stupid thing is people do buy. Think the game dealers not doing a very good job as a dealer if he cant shift them.

[motty]

Which game dealer? Lincolnshire game?

[Mice!]

Only eaten it once in a pub, it was very nice, think its down to cost these days. People probably don't even look at game in supermarkets and when they do its pricey so they don't bother.

 

Certainly not good news if shot game isn't going into the food chain.

[scotslad]

It's a shame botham never got his scheme going earlier, from wot I can gather its pretty much nation wide and I have heard rumours of shoots being asked to pay to have the birds taken.

Big shoots the various org's and game dealers need to get there finger out and sort something out fairly quickly

 

I really struggle to understand how game dealers can't make money, yes they will have overheads but if ur getting birds for next to nothing even how is there no profit.

Surely if they sold the game at cheaper prices they could create there own market, can't beat a pheasant or partridge well cooked.

 

I mind possibly 8ish years ago young august grouse were making £16 a brace and £8 for old grouse, now there getting £2 and £1. just crazy

Even pheasants I can mind of them making 4 quid a brace, in fact many keepers were happy when the price came down as less incentive for poachers, but just crazy now that there is no demand

[matone]

Agree Scotslad,game dealers have always priced the product up to an unattractive level ,then complain that there isnt a market !

How would you ever create a market in that way is a curious one ......

Poor job when they can`t create a market with a FREE supply of product!

[bostonmick]

I fail to see how it can be the game dealers fault there is no end market for these birds.so out of interest how would you deal with this.you are given hundreds of birds if the gamekeepers can be bothered to take the time to run them in for no pay.now the prep houses don't want them as they have to pay to have them made ready as the wholesalers have no kitchens that want to buy them.as our society has become so pc eating game is not favoured.so any workable suggestions.

[Benthejockey]

Skin them, gut them, mince them for dog food. DAF Pet foods do 14lb of pheasant mince for about £10. Bones, feet and beaks it all goes in the mincer except the guts. I've had bits of wheat in the mince so I'm sure the gizzards and stuff get thrown in as well. There's money to be made that way even if you got a couple of YTS kids from a local college in to do it twice a week. 8 hours skinning, gutting and mincing they'd get through a fair few. If you're not paying to take them even if you make £1 profit on it you're still in profit.

 

The thing I said about the Ian Botham thread the other would work here as well. Breast them out and mince it, turn it into cheap and nasty Tesco value ready meals and it will fly off the shelves. The people buying that fifth don't care what's in it they just care that it's cheap and microwaveable. You could combine the two processes and mince the carcasses after they've been breasted.

[ips]

I fail to see how it can be the game dealers fault there is no end market for these birds.so out of interest how would you deal with this.you are given hundreds of birds if the gamekeepers can be bothered to take the time to run them in for no pay.now the prep houses don't want them as they have to pay to have them made ready as the wholesalers have no kitchens that want to buy them.as our society has become so pc eating game is not favoured.so any workable suggestions.

This.

Game is seen by many to be none pc, they also assume that all game meat is, well, very gamey in flavour and just wont try it. If you made it as a ready meal for the lazy beggers they may try it. If you made it into cheap burgers or curry etc then folk who aren't bothered what it is as long as its cheap will buy it. I fear that the infrastructure and logistics of getting from shoot day to dealer to food plant is prohibitive (maybe) as far as cost and profit margin is concerned.

One thing is for sure 99.9% of consumers will not buy in feather.

It all boils down to the society we live in were shooting is condemned by many and the fact that people are brought up with supermarket shopping were not only is the provenance of meat not known it is not even considered. If its in feather and or titled "game" its a poor animal, if its prepacket then its food 😞

[bostonmick]

Skin them, gut them, mince them for dog food. DAF Pet foods do 14lb of pheasant mince for about £10. Bones, feet and beaks it all goes in the mincer except the guts. I've had bits of wheat in the mince so I'm sure the gizzards and stuff get thrown in as well. There's money to be made that way even if you got a couple of YTS kids from a local college in to do it twice a week. 8 hours skinning, gutting and mincing they'd get through a fair few. If you're not paying to take them even if you make £1 profit on it you're still in profit.

 

The thing I said about the Ian Botham thread the other would work here as well. Breast them out and mince it, turn it into cheap and nasty Tesco value ready meals and it will fly off the shelves. The people buying that fifth don't care what's in it they just care that it's cheap and microwaveable. You could combine the two processes and mince the carcasses after they've been breasted.

There is only so much market room for dog food.also I wonder how many actual shooters go to their butchers or local restaurants and order game.you see going out and shooting s brace to eat or taking a Brace or two home after a days beating does not create a market.i do not know how many millions of birds will be shot this season but it is only the start and already the market is over subscribed.out of your one pound profit.you have to cover gamekeepers cost to bring in the birds.dealers costs to store and deliver the birds.prep house costs to prep birds and deliver to retailers and their costs to store and distribute.would guess at it being a loss maker. Edited September 11, 2017 by bostonmick

[CharlieT]

This.

Game is seen by many to be none pc, they also assume that all game meat is, well, very gamey in flavour and just wont try it. If you made it as a ready meal for the lazy beggers they may try it. If you made it into cheap burgers or curry etc then folk who aren't bothered what it is as long as its cheap will buy it. I fear that the infrastructure and logistics of getting from shoot day to dealer to food plant is prohibitive (maybe) as far as cost and profit margin is concerned.

One thing is for sure 99.9% of consumers will not buy in feather.

It all boils down to the society we live in were shooting is condemned by many and the fact that people are brought up with supermarket shopping were not only is the provenance of meat not known it is not even considered. If its in feather and or titled "game" its a poor animal, if its prepacketthen its food

 

And that is exactly the problem.

If we accept the figures bandied about that 35/40,000,000 game birds are released each year and that 35% of these end up in the game bag, that's in excess of 12,000,000 birds a market must be found for. An awful lot of game birds.

 

If we take the highly geared up and mechanised poultry industry as an example, the producer profits on broiler chicken are a few pence per bird, something not remotely achievable with game birds when logistics are taken into account.

 

In past years the continent has taken high volumes of shot game, but even that that market seems to have become over saturated and is shrinking. It all comes town to supply and demand and I regret to say that supply vastly outstrips demand. With the plorifiration of shoots and the ever growing number of birds released and shot, the problem will only get worse.

 

At the end of the day, it is the responsibility of both game farms and shoot owners to find a solution as without a solution there is no moral argument for game shooting. A solution will inevitably cost big money, but when guns are prepared to pay £45 to shoot a bird they should not and indeed must not gripe at paying a surcharge of a pound or two per bird extra to cover processing and marketing costs.

[ips]

Which begs the question "do we shoot too many birds ?" Personally big bag days are of no interest to me I would prefer 100 bird days and enjoy a stand one walk one 12 bird day probably more than a formal driven.

[Benthejockey]

Let's say 50000 partridge are shot each year. Of those 50000, 5% are pre minced by the guns and aren't worth skinning. Another 10% aren't fit to be breasted out but are fine to mince for dog food. So 42500 are fine to eat. Let's say it costs 10p per bird to process. Another 5p to mince and another 5p to breast so 20p per bird. So it's £10k to process 50000 birds including the knackered ones. Then let's say it takes 3 birds to make 1lb of dog food and 1/2lb of fresh partridge breasts. The dog food sells for 50p/lb and the breast meat 75/half pound. Then you should make £11250 profit. Even if it cost half of that profit to pay the keeper to bring you the birds you're still going to make over £5k profit. This is alongside all the other processing that they do.

 

My figures are obviously picked out of fresh air and I could be completely wrong or over simplifying it but I doubt I'm that wide of the mark. Game dealers are going to have to diversify in the same way as a lot of farmers have had to because the industry they are in is struggling. And most of the time it's down to nothing more than the public perception is that it's a negative product. I bet if you asked anyone if they eat veal you'd get the response no it's cruel. I'm sure some farming practises and some farmers were cruel in their veal production but it doesn't happen that way now yet the perception is still that veal is cruel.

 

Game in this country has two issues 1 it's portrayed as being cruel and only folly for the rich and 2 it's very strong and gamey. Try convincing someone that's eaten a pheasant that's been hung for 3 weeks and tastes like poo they want to try it again. I eat anything yet my dad who likes to think he's a bit of a foody won't eat pigeon because he had it once and it was black and tasted revolting. But you mince up fresh game and sell it as free range organic tescos cheap and cheerful ready meals and I guarantee it will sell. Same with the dog food free range organic RAW diet etc and it will fly off the shelves. Look at those tubes of sausage meat that they sell for dogs it doesn't even look like meat and smells like it's full of salt and rubbish but it's cheap and people buy it.

 

Until the game industry is prepared to look at itself more as a food producer rather than solely as a sporting industry nothing will change.

[ips]

I think the dog food market is the best place to use up the surplus 👍

[scotslad]

I've heard of odd folk with plucking machines charging £1 a bird even for geese, and these are just boys doing a few for pocket money in an outhouse so I'd imagine proper set up could make a bird oven ready for well under £1

 

Yet there charging £6 a bird oven ready, its no wonder they don't have a market they've priced themselves out of the market. my mates wife paid £6 for a rabbit from a butcher up near Glasgow.

If u were selling birds for £2-3 there still making decent money, I like game but even I wouldn't pay the current price for game

 

1 thing I can see happening which would be a good thing is big shoots setting up themselves to sell and market there own game and with any luck put the game dealers out of business

 

Out of courosity where mark and spencers with all this?? Last year they were shouting about stocking grouse, bottled it big time (even thou plenty of grouse on the market) and same again this year most English moors breaking records.

 

Most folk don't really care about shooting either way, but if they were eating game at 'normal' money I'm sure they'd change there minds or at least see the food on the shelfs

[scotslad]

Was just going to say ben most of the bigger shoots do treat birds as food, many have invested large sums of cash into big walk in chillers for the game o its kept at the right temp

[ips]

Just a thought but if we could make pheasant partridge grouse the bird of choice for Xmas instead of Mr bland old turkey then that would be job done 👍

Last year Mrs ips made a game terrine of pheasant partridge woodcock and it went down a storm

[Benthejockey]

****** I just wrote a great reply and it disappeared into the ether! You get what I mean though about it being more of a sporting industry rather than a food production industry. The big shoots that have big days have already made their money by the time the birds start falling out of the sky and if they can make some money selling the carcasses on that's great but if they have to burn or bury them it's not going to be the end of the world for them financially. I haven't got an issue with big days but it's the wastage or perceived wastage that alienates the public. If you can put out a readily available product cheaply then people will buy it. If someone decided to start making partridge twizzlers they'd fly off the shelf! Jamie Oliver might come knocking on your door however. Joe Bloggs does not want a fluffy bird with a piece of string round it's neck, full of lead in their kitchen, but a ready meal, a pie or some other processed filth and they'll buy it like they've been eating it all their life.

[grahamch]

Perhaps we should wake up to the fact huge bags are a thing of the past if game cant be sold? Surely smaller days are the solution or more rough days with sensible bags. Those who want to shoot huge bags should stick to clays. If we dont put our own house in order it will be done for us and we will loose out.

[ips]

Perhaps we should wake up to the fact huge bags are a thing of the past if game cant be sold? Surely smaller days are the solution or more rough days with sensible bags. Those who want to shoot huge bags should stick to clays. If we dont put our own house in order it will be done for us and we will loose out.

I agree 👍

[CharlieT]

Let's say 50000 partridge are shot each year. Of those 50000, 5% are pre minced by the guns and aren't worth skinning. Another 10% aren't fit to be breasted out but are fine to mince for dog food. So 42500 are fine to eat. Let's say it costs 10p per bird to process. Another 5p to mince and another 5p to breast so 20p per bird. So it's £10k to process 50000 birds including the knackered ones. Then let's say it takes 3 birds to make 1lb of dog food and 1/2lb of fresh partridge breasts. The dog food sells for 50p/lb and the breast meat 75/half pound. Then you should make £11250 profit. Even if it cost half of that profit to pay the keeper to bring you the birds you're still going to make over £5k profit. This is alongside all the other processing that they do.

 

My figures are obviously picked out of fresh air and I could be completely wrong or over simplifying it but I doubt I'm that wide of the mark. Game dealers are going to have to diversify in the same way as a lot of farmers have had to because the industry they are in is struggling. And most of the time it's down to nothing more than the public perception is that it's a negative product. I bet if you asked anyone if they eat veal you'd get the response no it's cruel. I'm sure some farming practises and some farmers were cruel in their veal production but it doesn't happen that way now yet the perception is still that veal is cruel.

 

 

Until the game industry is prepared to look at itself more as a food producer rather than solely as a sporting industry nothing will change.

 

GWCT estimate over 6 million partridges are released each season, if we use the 35% shot assumption, that's over 2 million to find a home for.

[scotslad]

Perhaps we should wake up to the fact huge bags are a thing of the past if game cant be sold? Surely smaller days are the solution or more rough days with sensible bags. Those who want to shoot huge bags should stick to clays. If we dont put our own house in order it will be done for us and we will loose out.

 

The problem is these smaller bags are not really feasible. U simply can not keep walking up the same ground/birds they soon become very wise and will be legging it out of the 'drive' or rising well in front.

Also if u have enough birds down to shoot all these smaller days ur days really won't last very long right into December, as u'll have so many birds on the ground, will have shot ur bag by 11am. also an awful lot of ground where u can drive birds wouldn't be able to have walked up or rough days on.

Also most of the benefits of game shooting really need the cash injection that comes with commercial shooting/FT keepers/ cover crops etc.

 

Why should huge bags be a thing of the past?? If someone wants to shoot a big day its no one's business but there own.

I'm not into big bags either, but I do rely on big days/shoots to employ me and my dogs

And really shooting in this country for anyone but 'landed gentry' is really quite new and recent thing, my area is full of both commercial and DIY syndicates and hardly a 'toff's' shoot left yet 30 yrs ago diy/commercial shoots didn't exist and all the shooting was in house ran by the land owners themselves and there mates

And almost 100% of the shooters that critise bigger bags would not be long in accept in an invition to shoot 1 for free!!

 

But shoots do need to find an outlet for the game, just a shame Botham hadn't started this scheme a few years ago, but fair play to him for stating it

There is nothing wrong with the meat/product it just needs developed various org have tried over the years but I think the game dealers have always been the problem keeping the prices artificially high.

In my view the dealers have been lazy making pofits but not investing anything backor doing any marketing, happy to just export everything and hope that doesn't change (all eggs in 1 basket springs to mind), even the same with venision, pay peanuts for a carcus yet charge a fortune or the butchered meat (and yes I realise they have expenses butchering it, but ur buying it cheaper than a lamb and even a Roe won't be an awful lot smaller, but meat is 3 times the price)

Edited September 11, 2017 by scotslad