What is wrong with this country?

[das]

The system has more holes in it than a colander !

Two quick wins:

 

1. Come down really hard on businesses / individuals that are not paying their taxes.

2. Stop the long term "benefit babes" pilfering from the system and re-introduce workhouses.

 

Agree Agree Agree :)

[JohnfromUK]

I think we can all agree that there is something wrong with a system that allows some people to make the choice of not working when they are able, maybe I made the wrong choice for nearly 44 years.

We still have a situation where single people who own their own homes can't get help when they need it most. If it wasn't for my family helping I may have been forced to go back to work even though the Dr says its the worst thing I could do right now.

I and no doubt many others have been faced with this dilemma, its not good.

I completely understand your situation; I am also single in my own home and when made redundant last year could only get minimal help - despite having paid in for over 40 years, much of it at 40% tax rate. I was very fortunate in that I was able to treat mine as early retirement - and I did get a redundancy settlement, and I do have my health ....... so though I have to watch the spending much more closely than when I was working, I am not in a difficult situation - but I understand exactly how it can happen. The benefits system simply doesn't work very well - as you say - we all probably agree on this.

[Mice!]

Very well said john from UK, next folk will want you to give out individual addresses of the folk claiming!!

 

If I had been off sick for say 6 weeks when I was self employed or back when I had just bought a house I would also have been up creak with no paddle.

 

I'm sure everyone on here knows or has known someone who has been claiming without needing to but taking the easy route, at the same time the system does help others who can't work through long term illness or disability but the system is poor and takes an age to work properly because its under such strain.

[jam1e]

This is one of the very reasons I despise the uber capitalist system which chews and spits out humans lives all in the pursuit of profit. Sadly for us they are meticulous in their thieving endeavours and since they also own the msm and everything you and I get to see and read from birth till death they will make sure you end up pointing the finger at other equally hapless, dispossessed groups rather than the actual source of inequalities. If you don't believe me re-read your own post where you (at least think) race and colour has a bearing and that foreigners are "responsible" for your plight. This is despite the FACT studies and factual records show "foreigners" (on the whole) bring their own investments and make a net contribution. Look around you with an open mind, do they ALL live on hand outs or milk the system or are most working jobs and creating them by opening businesses and paying taxes. What colour was the 13 plate career holiday merchant ?

 

The stats are freely available and make interesting reading such as the fact that 8 people own as much wealth as the bottom 50% in the WORLD. Whenever these things are mentioned people start laughing (because the msm has conditioned them to) and start hurling their favourite put downs like "resident socialist" or "libtard" or "Guardian reader" little aware they are spewing out the exact thing their capitalist parasite masters have conditioned them to say and think. I personally abhor injustice in society and metaphorically weep every time I see poverty, regardless of whether the victim is down on his/her luck or a so called pro scrounger.

 

We do have problems of poverty, social housing, runaway costs on utilities, high rents and near impossibility of getting on the housing ladder in many places but the guy washing your car for a fiver is not the cause. The cause is wealth is not divided anywhere near equally and by that I don't mean everyone should get a lump sum of £25000 or some other bizarre swipe which I await eagerly from some resident professional capitalist zombie.

 

They always have money for war but they never have it for the NHS, roads, trains, infrastructure, housing, pot holes, etc, etc, they'll also chase you for taxes but let corporations off with billions (because they create jobs and will go elsewhere if we upset them) .

Fair point.....

[mossy835]

same old thing,you work hard and end up with nothing,if you dont work you get it all.

[poontang]

 

Confused here. Who is that "silly bint" ? Name and shame. If you do be prepared for an avalanche of background about racking up debt in England's green and pleasant land .

 

I thought that was quite clear as I was replying to Twistedsanity's post, and the scenario he presented. You'll have to ask him for a name.

[Nial]

This is one of the very reasons I despise the uber capitalist system which chews and spits out humans lives all in the pursuit of profit. Sadly for us they are meticulous in their thieving endeavours and since they also own the msm and everything you and I get to see and read from birth till death they will make sure you end up pointing the finger at other equally hapless, dispossessed groups rather than the actual source of inequalities. If you don't believe me re-read your own post where you (at least think) race and colour has a bearing and that foreigners are "responsible" for your plight. This is despite the FACT studies and factual records show "foreigners" (on the whole) bring their own investments and make a net contribution. Look around you with an open mind, do they ALL live on hand outs or milk the system or are most working jobs and creating them by opening businesses and paying taxes. What colour was the 13 plate career holiday merchant ?

 

I believe that immigrants are overall less likely to be employed than non immigrants.

Somethign like 5% of non english speaking immigrant women are employed.

 

No references but I heard this a week or so ago from a reliable source (radio 4 or the like).

[ShootingEgg]

its a bit of a misconception, the woman with the 13 plate bmw is probaly up to her wotsits in debt, owes wonga, the rent, the utilities and every catalogue going a fortune, car is probably on some dodgy finance deal and brighthouse own the tv and white goods , it will all come to a head sooner or later whern she is hiding from the bailiffs and gets evicted , the blame can only lay at one groups feet and that is the government who preside over the benefits system I'm afraid

Or her own fault for not managing her finances, and just borrowing money knowing she cant pay it back. Obviously this is all a guess, I have no idea why she uses a food bank.

[Benthejockey]

Just a small aside on the immigration thing. My personal view is we should be more like Australia and New Zealand, if you havent got a job to go to, skills in relevant sectors that have staffing shortages or the finances to support yourself without working then you best have a good reason to be coming here. Thats not to turn away genuine people in need but to try and weed out the ingenue types. However without migrant workers who is going to do the **** jobs? There was a program on channel 4 a few years back where they tried to get 5 people off the dole into work. They got them jobs at Greenvale packing potatoes, sweeping up etc. Not one of them made it past Wednesday because it was too much like hard work having to get up early and put on a uniform. It was easier for them to stay at home and sign on and the system allowed that.

The system is so flawed that as part of a character building, personal development weekend for the kids my parents foster they were shown by social services how to go and sign on and claim benefits. Not how to get through a job interview but how to get the most for doing nothing. The system couldnt cope when the one lad at 16 decided he was going to do his NVQ3 which involved him getting a job, living away and looking after himself and earning money I wish Id been earning at 16! We had senior managers wringing their hands because its not normal for these kids to go on and try to make something of their lives. The next one wants to be a chef in the RAF and theyre actively discouraging him because well 16 is very young and have you considered chef college?. This is a kid that cant walk, talk and breathe at the same time without being told what to do. Without that strict routine he will spiral out of control and become a scrounger.

The benefits system is set up to fund people that dont want to work and it just so happens that suits a lot of people including a proportion of immigrants.

[AVB]

 

It's not about biting, why would you even say that ? I know, maybe because the capitalist system has conditioned you into taking an automatic defensive stance against anything else ! I'm not even against capitalism, only opposed to it when it doesn't pay its way and amasses what it can't possibly spend and stashes it away without even paying taxes on it. These fortunes are then used as influence and little else, you can't possibly spend more than 200-300 million anyway. In simple terms I am against successful companies such as Google or Amazon not paying due taxes using loopholes placed by politicians who work for them and not the ordinary worker, if you can't see that it's no good feeling sorry for ME.

 

I believe ©apitalism with a Socialist conscience is the way forward and NO, socialism doesn't take away from the rich to give to the lazy, rather to the needy and we can all fall into that category unfortunately. It is Capitalism which denigrates and mocks all others despite the reality that there are dozens of socialist structure countries in Europe as well as other places in the world which have proved it can work.

 

 

The problem is that you highlight the unacceptable faces of capitalism, such as Amazon, yet ignore the unacceptable faces of socialism, such as benefit scroungers. Some people/companies take advantage of loopholes that are put in place whether they be rich or poor. What I detest about socialism is the 'tax them until they squeak' attitude and the belief that someone else will will sort out your problems. Well they won't.

[JohnfromUK]

The benefits system is set up to fund people that dont want to work and it just so happens that suits a lot of people ...............

 

To correct you slightly, your point above isn't a small aside - the above is the real key to the problem.

Our Social budget is approx £240 billion

Take out pensions at £108 billion - and you have approx £140 billion to spend on social support (of various types). That is a hell of a lot of money - it is over 3 times the whole defence budget.

Put in perspective, it is 14,000,000 families each receiving £10,000 a year on average. That is a lot of families.

 

When one sees programmes like Benefits Street, and reads examples like those you have quoted above, the problem is clear - there are too many people claiming as a 'lifestyle', and not surprisingly this leaves a shortage for the genuine deserving who have a real need. Benefits MUST be better targeted to reach the deserving needy - and withdrawn, or reduced to basic subsistence level from those who choose it as a lifestyle.

Edited October 4, 2017 by JohnfromUK

[manthing]

About 18 months ago I realised that I wasn't invincible and started looking around for some form of insurance, for not that much more the I used to pay for my company insurance I now get that plus tool insurance and a wage if unable to work. It's put my mind at rest somewhat.

[JohnfromUK]

 

 

The problem is that you highlight the unacceptable faces of capitalism, such as Amazon, yet ignore the unacceptable faces of socialism, such as benefit scroungers. Some people/companies take advantage of loopholes that are put in place whether they be rich or poor. What I detest about socialism is the 'tax them until they squeak' attitude and the belief that someone else will will sort out your problems. Well they won't.

Agree completely;

 

everyone accepts that in a properly civilised society the 'fit and able' should have a working life and contribute to 'the pot' to assist the sick, disabled and elderly - and when they themselves become sick, disabled or elderly - then the system should help them.

The key thing is that ALL should contribute when they are young, well and able - and then support can be returned when circumstances (age. sickness, disability, redundancy etc) require it.

[Me matt]

About 18 months ago I realised that I wasn't invincible and started looking around for some form of insurance, for not that much more the I used to pay for my company insurance I now get that plus tool insurance and a wage if unable to work. It's put my mind at rest somewhat.

Could you PM some details of the policy you took out? Im looking for something similar.

Many thanks

Mm

[Hamster]

 

 

The problem is that you highlight the unacceptable faces of capitalism, such as Amazon, yet ignore the unacceptable faces of socialism, such as benefit scroungers. Some people/companies take advantage of loopholes that are put in place whether they be rich or poor. What I detest about socialism is the 'tax them until they squeak' attitude and the belief that someone else will will sort out your problems. Well they won't.

 

That is NOT what Socialism is about, google it if you don't believe me, it is what the capitalist controlled msm machination has conditioned you to think though.

 

Again, I am not a socialist or asking for socialism or Marxism or Communism , I have little allegiance to anything, I simply abhor injustice and inequality and THAT just happens to be happening under a rampant, aggressive capitalist system. Wanting that to be brought to heel in favour of the many and not the few is not being a dreamy libtard but simple human goodwill.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Hamster

[JohnfromUK]

 

That is NOT what Socialism is about, google it if you don't believe me, it is what the capitalist controlled msm machination has conditioned you to think though.

 

Again, I am not a socialist or asking for socialism or Marxism or Communism , I have little allegiance to anything, I simply abhor injustice and inequality and THAT just happens to be happening under a rampant, aggressive capitalist system. Wanting that to be brought to heel in favour of the many and not the few is not being a dreamy libtard but simple human goodwill.

I agree it's not what socialism is about; but it is how the current (and some past) implementations have been attempted.

 

Present socialist based opposition Labour party want to increase taxation and spend MUCH more, partly funded by borrowing - presumably leaving the next generation to sort it out and repay the borrowing. We currently pay £39 billion a year on interest on the borrowing we already have. To borrow more and increase this (and it will increase anyway as global interest rates rise) is the height of folly. Who will pay it back - and when? Governments, like individuals, families etc. must live within their means. There is no 'international benefits office' to which the UK as a nation can turn and get free handouts at government level - as the Greeks have unfortunately found out. It isn't the 'system' that is wrong - it is living beyond our means.

 

I dislike injustice, but I accept that inequality is to some extent inevitable. We weren't all created equal, we don't develop equally, and we don't share equal aspirations.

[AVB]

 

That is NOT what Socialism is about, google it if you don't believe me, it is what the capitalist controlled msm machination has conditioned you to think though.

 

Again, I am not a socialist or asking for socialism or Marxism or Communism , I have little allegiance to anything, I simply abhor injustice and inequality and THAT just happens to be happening under a rampant, aggressive capitalist system. Wanting that to be brought to heel in favour of the many and not the few is not being a dreamy libtard but simple human goodwill.

 

I don't care what google states what socialism should theoretically be. My only practical experience of it is socialism, via Labour party, in the UK since I was born (1960's). And it doesn't work. You might claim that isn't socialism well what is it?

[Mice!]

Just a small aside on the immigration thing. My personal view is we should be more like Australia and New Zealand, if you havent got a job to go to, skills in relevant sectors that have staffing shortages or the finances to support yourself without working then you best have a good reason to be coming here. Thats not to turn away genuine people in need but to try and weed out the ingenue types. However without migrant workers who is going to do the **** jobs? There was a program on channel 4 a few years back where they tried to get 5 people off the dole into work. They got them jobs at Greenvale packing potatoes, sweeping up etc. Not one of them made it past Wednesday because it was too much like hard work having to get up early and put on a uniform. It was easier for them to stay at home and sign on and the system allowed that.

The system is so flawed that as part of a character building, personal development weekend for the kids my parents foster they were shown by social services how to go and sign on and claim benefits. Not how to get through a job interview but how to get the most for doing nothing. The system couldnt cope when the one lad at 16 decided he was going to do his NVQ3 which involved him getting a job, living away and looking after himself and earning money I wish Id been earning at 16! We had senior managers wringing their hands because its not normal for these kids to go on and try to make something of their lives. The next one wants to be a chef in the RAF and theyre actively discouraging him because well 16 is very young and have you considered chef college?. This is a kid that cant walk, talk and breathe at the same time without being told what to do. Without that strict routine he will spiral out of control and become a scrounger.

The benefits system is set up to fund people that dont want to work and it just so happens that suits a lot of people including a proportion of immigrants.

You've nailed a few cracking points for me there ben, can't imagine us ever getting a system like down under this country is just to soft these days, also I think given how remote au's and NZ are that's going to put off folk just trying to arrive like they do here, if only we had a border!!!

 

As for folk kids being shown how to sign on that's just plain wrong, show them how to apply for a bloody job not how to sit around.

 

As for folk getting benefits who could work but choose not to and there are plenty like the ones in the prog you mention I think they should be made to do community service in hi viz simple things like litter picking in parks and around town, you don't do your allotted hours you get your pay docked, some might even decide its better getting a job??

 

And finally your parents should be proud if there foster kids want a job then they've done a proper job and given those kids a chance to buck the system and have a real go at life.

 

Spelling mistake oops

Edited October 4, 2017 by Mice!