Barrel lapping

[brett1985]

Any recommendations on where to send a couple of guns to have some minor pitting lapped out?

[Blackpowder]

UK Gun Repairs they cant be very far from you

 

Blackpowder

[old'un]

If the pitting is only very light why not lap it out yourself ?

[wymberley]

If the pitting is only very light why not lap it out yourself ?

Could that not go some way in explaining why Brett knows of no one in his own county ("send a couple") who could do the job?

Reminds me of the Post Office slogan.

[brett1985]

Afternoon all...

 

When removing material from a barrel one can never be too careful and while I'm confident that I could do the task, I would never forgive myself if i made a gun dangerous by rendering it out of proof...

I would much rather it be done professionally.

I shall give Derek a call and see what he says 👍

[old'un]

Could that not go some way in explaining why Brett knows of no one in his own county ("send a couple") who could do the job?

Reminds me of the Post Office slogan.

Think we will all be struggling for someone to do gun repairs in another ten years, as a young man (70s) I spent a lot of time around Birmingham gun trade and was privileged to be allowed into the workshop of a few and watch guns being made and repaired.

 

I have recently had the need to have some barrels re-blacked, so I took them to Brian at Benjamin Wild & Son Birmingham, it must be 10+ years since I was last there, I was told that there is now only 14 people left in the trade and most of them are in their 60s, there is no new blood coming into the trade, and most of what I remember as been either knocked down or turned into yuppie flats, sad really.

[wymberley]

Afternoon all...

 

When removing material from a barrel one can never be too careful and while I'm confident that I could do the task, I would never forgive myself if i made a gun dangerous by rendering it out of proof...

I would much rather it be done professionally.

I shall give Derek a call and see what he says

Hi,

If, perchance, you mean Dennis and you do pop up (they did move a while back), sing out and I'll give you the directions - out in the sticks somewhat - and it'll give you the chance to see what they've done with the Chas Osborne.

[The Mighty Prawn]

Think we will all be struggling for someone to do gun repairs in another ten years, as a young man (70s) I spent a lot of time around Birmingham gun trade and was privileged to be allowed into the workshop of a few and watch guns being made and repaired.

 

I have recently had the need to have some barrels re-blacked, so I took them to Brian at Benjamin Wild & Son Birmingham, it must be 10+ years since I was last there, I was told that there is now only 14 people left in the trade and most of them are in their 60s, there is no new blood coming into the trade, and most of what I remember as been either knocked down or turned into yuppie flats, sad really.

Think it was Fieldsports Britain but I may be wrong that did a feature on the first apprentice in years going into a barrel manufacturer, was the youngest there by thirty odd years

[Gunman]

Its hard work , there's no money in it and it takes along time to learn ,Not to mention the simple fact that so many people in" the search for economy" will buy stuff from the US to save a couple of quid rather than support local shops .I was in the trade for neigh on 50 years , apprenticed as a gun maker and 40 years as a gunsmith repairing ,renovating and rebuilding guns ,from many Countries as well as the London and Birmingham trades , so I have seen the decline and changes in the trade from the sharp end .

Work wise it cost as as much to black a pair of barrels be it a Purdey or a Beretta .and people did not want to pay for the time and experience .

After all you can see some clown from America showing you how to ****** up a gun on YouTube ,so why pay someone else to do the work correctly? See any shooting forum and you will get the recommendation from some one .Do it your self , dont pay a professional .

As to youngsters coming into the trade then first thing you have to get across is that you do not spend all day playing with guns .

Not to mention the fact that with constant new legislation making it more and more difficult and the future of our sport under threat would you want your son to spend 5 years learning a craft that could be shut down by political whim?

 

My opinion ,rant over .

[old'un]

Its hard work , there's no money in it and it takes along time to learn ,Not to mention the simple fact that so many people in" the search for economy" will buy stuff from the US to save a couple of quid rather than support local shops .I was in the trade for neigh on 50 years , apprenticed as a gun maker and 40 years as a gunsmith repairing ,renovating and rebuilding guns ,from many Countries as well as the London and Birmingham trades , so I have seen the decline and changes in the trade from the sharp end .

Work wise it cost as as much to black a pair of barrels be it a Purdey or a Beretta .and people did not want to pay for the time and experience .

After all you can see some clown from America showing you how to ****** up a gun on YouTube ,so why pay someone else to do the work correctly? See any shooting forum and you will get the recommendation from some one .Do it your self , dont pay a professional .

As to youngsters coming into the trade then first thing you have to get across is that you do not spend all day playing with guns .

Not to mention the fact that with constant new legislation making it more and more difficult and the future of our sport under threat would you want your son to spend 5 years learning a craft that could be shut down by political whim?

 

My opinion ,rant over .

Go into most gun shops and you will find DIY blueing kits, most DIY gunsmiths enjoy stripping and repairing guns, not to save money but because they enjoy it, look at the threads on this site of people doing just that and sharing their project with others who are not so skilled.

 

Being a Engineer myself I have always admired the skill of the English gunsmith, but most of the decline in the gun trade was caused by cheap gun imports and the lack of investment in new machinery, the first new gun I bought (1967) was a Spanish side by side, think it cost me about £12 (a weeks wage), the equivalent English gun was out of reach for most people.

 

I think that as skilled gunsmiths retire and with few young people joining the trade the cost of gun repair will be to costly for the average working man, it will be cheaper to buy a second hand gun.

[buze]

From the other side, I've had an horror story with a 'major' bona-fide gunsmith this year, and I'm now quite KEEN to try to do stuff myself... Thanks crunchy for youtube.

 

Long story short, gun (not 'precious london', but nice sidelock) was booked in for a full refurb in january. It needed also the safety of the second trigger sorted out, as part of a 'full refurb' (including refacing, tightening).

 

I recovered the gun a month ago (over 10 months!); it had to return it 3 times, they had more or less *butchered* it. Filed away the engraving on the 'ears', and had left burn marks on the barrel hook. Also, the inside of the hook had been 'filed' probably with an angle grinder... Oh, and after 10 months of being knocked over, it WAS knocked over on the stock and the inside of the barrels were rusty.

 

Basically it was a complete disaster, my RFD was absolutely aghast -- whatever they did (sub-sub subcontract or pass the 'not a purdey' gun to their 12 years old) I've lost all trust in them.

 

Funny thing is, it's not the first horror story I've had with gunsmiths, and I've only been shooting 2 years -- so quite frankly 'don't save 2 quid and help the local shop' loses a LOT of it's appeal when it costs you £600 and the gun comes back way worse than when it went in.

 

Of COURSE I'm sure none of YOU guys would possibly do that, because you are all perfect obviously. But gunsmiths are about as trustworthy as car mechanics as far as my experience goes.

[wymberley]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!

In the 2 years that you've been shooting you've obviously still yet to learn the difference between an RFD and a gunsmith. You can have no idea of the training, qualifications and experience of the person/s who worked on your gun. This does not, however, prevent you insulting the trade by tarring all of them with the same brush. However, I can see your problem - Gunman explains it fully above. I know of one RFD who uses a retired carpenter as his stock man. I won't tell you the age of his barrel blacker. This may well be forced upon him for the reasons given above. But take the finished work from this source and compare it with the standard reached by the firm mentioned already on this thread (and I don't doubt many others) and the difference is truly outstanding. Consequently, you'd do better trying to find out who the good guys are rather than slagging them all off. Furthermore,if you keep this up, as there are not that many about - and they're getting fewer - and they do talk to each other - you might just find that none of them will touch you with a bore scope when you finally have a problem which the internet and youtube can't help you resolve.

[Paul1440]

Wisemans at cannock or Tim Greenwood although from one of his writeup on a gun he was refurbing he sent the barrels to specialist barrel man who from the sounds of it deals with trade only. Prob a safe pair of hands to get it done properly

Though.

I had a gun lapped out and re proofed. Even though the gunsmith I gave the gun to does nearly all the work himself he also sent it to a barrel man to sort. It looked to be really badly pitted and had expected a bag of bits back from the proofhouse but it went through ok. He wouldn't tell me who did the barrel but said it was a top guy in the midlands. The total cost was less than £100 but that was 17 yeats ago. Still using the gun regularly with no issues.

[brett1985]

Hi,

If, perchance, you mean Dennis and you do pop up (they did move a while back), sing out and I'll give you the directions - out in the sticks somewhat - and it'll give you the chance to see what they've done with the Chas Osborne.

You are quite correct, I did mean to write Dennis bit my phone had other ideas... Bloody minded technology!

I've seen the pictures of the Osborne, looks amazing! They really did a great job with it... it's nice to see it restored and I hope you make enough on it to compensate you for the issues you had.

Had I of known it had been rather unceremoniously tightened I would either have informed you or not sold it... so apologies once again!

[Graham M]

Think we will all be struggling for someone to do gun repairs in another ten years, as a young man (70s) I spent a lot of time around Birmingham gun trade and was privileged to be allowed into the workshop of a few and watch guns being made and repaired.

 

I have recently had the need to have some barrels re-blacked, so I took them to Brian at Benjamin Wild & Son Birmingham, it must be 10+ years since I was last there, I was told that there is now only 14 people left in the trade and most of them are in their 60s, there is no new blood coming into the trade, and most of what I remember as been either knocked down or turned into yuppie flats, sad really.

Haven't been into Wilds since Colin Died.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Graham M

[wymberley]

You are quite correct, I did mean to write Dennis bit my phone had other ideas... Bloody minded technology!

I've seen the pictures of the Osborne, looks amazing! They really did a great job with it... it's nice to see it restored and I hope you make enough on it to compensate you for the issues you had.

Had I of known it had been rather unceremoniously tightened I would either have informed you or not sold it... so apologies once again!

No problem. It wasn't at all noticeable until you pulled the trigger. All's well that ends well (hopefully).

[buze]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!

In the 2 years that you've been shooting you've obviously still yet to learn the difference between an RFD and a gunsmith. You can have no idea of the training, qualifications and experience of the person/s who worked on your gun. This does not, however, prevent you insulting the trade by tarring all of them with the same brush. However, I can see your problem - Gunman explains it fully above. I know of one RFD who uses a retired carpenter as his stock man. I won't tell you the age of his barrel blacker. This may well be forced upon him for the reasons given above. But take the finished work from this source and compare it with the standard reached by the firm mentioned already on this thread (and I don't doubt many others) and the difference is truly outstanding. Consequently, you'd do better trying to find out who the good guys are rather than slagging them all off. Furthermore,if you keep this up, as there are not that many about - and they're getting fewer - and they do talk to each other - you might just find that none of them will touch you with a bore scope when you finally have a problem which the internet and youtube can't help you resolve.

 

Yawn.... YAWN.. all that typing, just don't have the attention spawn to read all that jazz really: WAY too many commas for one thing. You typed all that and actually it makes no sense at all.

 

 

Lets re-center the discussion here. The discussion was about:

1) People who want to to it themselves

2) That the gunsmith trade were vastly better at it therefore you should spend the money on THEM blessed souls of old times.

 

It's complete bull excrements -- I have proof of it, as my 'trusted gunsmith' shop butchered one fo my gun. No, not a random gunsmith shop, a major, big turnaround one.

 

Now you are saying that:

1) It's my fault not to have found the blessed, most excellent workpeople who would have done the job properly and

2) that these BLESSED souls are also in a cahoot, and will not do legit work for customers if they decide not to because someone complained.

 

Now that's a FANTASTIC way of enhancing trust in them. Im mean, totally amazing. Well done!

 

I'm also an engineer, I don't take bull excrement as an argument. I know when I see a good job, and I know when I see a **** one. I'm certain some people around are of the 'old trade' and will do an excellent job -- however even 'them' might sub-contract. Sub contract to ****ty people. Don't tell me there's some god-given rule where this would not happen in gunsmith heaven.

 

So please go back to your corner, 'oh dear' you. Do re-read your own signature and ponder on your own perceived literacy on the subject.

Edited November 4, 2017 by buze

[Salmo9]

I can personally recommend Dan Bromley aka 'Barrel Blacker' on this very forum, who took my B25 barrels, removed all pitting and re-blued them. Great job too..

[wymberley]

 

Yawn.... YAWN.. all that typing, just don't have the attention spawn to read all that jazz really: WAY too many commas for one thing. You typed all that and actually it makes no sense at all.

 

 

Lets re-center the discussion here. The discussion was about:

1) People who want to to it themselves

2) That the gunsmith trade were vastly better at it therefore you should spend the money on THEM blessed souls of old times.

 

It's complete bull excrements -- I have proof of it, as my 'trusted gunsmith' shop butchered one fo my gun. No, not a random gunsmith shop, a major, big turnaround one.

 

Now you are saying that:

1) It's my fault not to have found the blessed, most excellent workpeople who would have done the job properly and

2) that these BLESSED souls are also in a cahoot, and will not do legit work for customers if they decide not to because someone complained.

 

Now that's a FANTASTIC way of enhancing trust in them. Im mean, totally amazing. Well done!

 

I'm also an engineer, I don't take bull excrement as an argument. I know when I see a good job, and I know when I see a **** one. I'm certain some people around are of the 'old trade' and will do an excellent job -- however even 'them' might sub-contract. Sub contract to ****ty people. Don't tell me there's some god-given rule where this would not happen in gunsmith heaven.

 

So please go back to your corner, 'oh dear' you. Do re-read your own signature and ponder on your own perceived literacy on the subject.

I thought the discussion was about where could one send some barrels to be professionally lapped.

So, one example is proof.

I did not say, 'fault', but made a recommendation.

As it has been decided that 'engineer' is meaningless, is that I or C Eng?

Edited November 5, 2017 by wymberley

[Gunman]

Barrel boring . Eddie Cane works with Tony White ,FJ Wiseman , Phil Turner [bozard] ,Patrick Kaye, John Gibbs , Teague , Bill Blacker . Dont know how close these are to you but all will be able to help.

They are all good people and proper gunsmiths .

 

Not bodgers , ex sweet salesmen , DIY nuts or self styled experts like so many dotted around who can ****** up your gun for you without any thought what so ever .

[panoma1]

Barrel boring . Eddie Cane works with Tony White ,FJ Wiseman , Phil Turner [bozard] ,Patrick Kaye, John Gibbs , Teague , Bill Blacker . Dont know how close these are to you but all will be able to help.

They are all good people and proper gunsmiths .

 

Not bodgers , ex sweet salesmen , DIY nuts or self styled experts like so many dotted around who can ****** up your gun for you without any thought what so ever .

I know Eddie..........he has done work for me in the past.....he knows his stuff! I first met him when he worked at Smiths in Price Street.......

[Fil]

On 03/11/2017 at 17:15, buze said:

From the other side, I've had an horror story with a 'major' bona-fide gunsmith this year, and I'm now quite KEEN to try to do stuff myself... Thanks crunchy for youtube.

 

Long story short, gun (not 'precious london', but nice sidelock) was booked in for a full refurb in january. It needed also the safety of the second trigger sorted out, as part of a 'full refurb' (including refacing, tightening).

 

I recovered the gun a month ago (over 10 months!); it had to return it 3 times, they had more or less *butchered* it. Filed away the engraving on the 'ears', and had left burn marks on the barrel hook. Also, the inside of the hook had been 'filed' probably with an angle grinder... Oh, and after 10 months of being knocked over, it WAS knocked over on the stock and the inside of the barrels were rusty.

 

Basically it was a complete disaster, my RFD was absolutely aghast -- whatever they did (sub-sub subcontract or pass the 'not a purdey' gun to their 12 years old) I've lost all trust in them.

 

Funny thing is, it's not the first horror story I've had with gunsmiths, and I've only been shooting 2 years -- so quite frankly 'don't save 2 quid and help the local shop' loses a LOT of it's appeal when it costs you £600 and the gun comes back way worse than when it went in.

 

Of COURSE I'm sure none of YOU guys would possibly do that, because you are all perfect obviously. But gunsmiths are about as trustworthy as car mechanics as far as my experience goes.

You obviously found one of those "fancy having a go at gunsmithing gunsmiths" and not someone who spent 5-9 years being trained as a gunmaker like Gunman or myself. So I will thank you for not tarnishing all gunsmiths with the same brush. Next time do a bit of research better and be prepared to to travel to find a properly trained gunmaker. Do not take it to your local gun shop or an "RFD" who sub contracts. Talk to the person actually doing the work. I agree with you on that one. 

On 04/11/2017 at 23:08, buze said:

 

Yawn.... YAWN.. all that typing, just don't have the attention spawn to read all that jazz really: WAY too many commas for one thing. You typed all that and actually it makes no sense at all.

 

 

Lets re-center the discussion here. The discussion was about:

1) People who want to to it themselves

2) That the gunsmith trade were vastly better at it therefore you should spend the money on THEM blessed souls of old times.

 

It's complete bull excrements -- I have proof of it, as my 'trusted gunsmith' shop butchered one fo my gun. No, not a random gunsmith shop, a major, big turnaround one.

 

Now you are saying that:

1) It's my fault not to have found the blessed, most excellent workpeople who would have done the job properly and

2) that these BLESSED souls are also in a cahoot, and will not do legit work for customers if they decide not to because someone complained.

 

Now that's a FANTASTIC way of enhancing trust in them. Im mean, totally amazing. Well done!

 

I'm also an engineer, I don't take bull excrement as an argument. I know when I see a good job, and I know when I see a **** one. I'm certain some people around are of the 'old trade' and will do an excellent job -- however even 'them' might sub-contract. Sub contract to ****ty people. Don't tell me there's some god-given rule where this would not happen in gunsmith heaven.

 

So please go back to your corner, 'oh dear' you. Do re-read your own signature and ponder on your own perceived literacy on the subject.

"I'm also an engineer, I don't take bull excrement as an argument. I know when I see a good job,"

 

 

Please... Gun makers/Gunsmiths are not engineers. I am a gun maker not an engineer.

Thank you.

[Smokersmith]

What's the problem with having light pits in your barrel? (other than aesthetics)

Not challenging … just would like to know.

[wymberley]

Them's craters by now.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Rant over?