Hunt rider beat sab

[Mice!]

6 hours ago, grrclark said:

I think this is an utterly ludicrous post, how on earth can you conflate the actions of SABS with people on scooters robbing people?

There is also a world of difference of someone walking in to my house or garden wearing a mask versus those protesting in an open field. 

Well you like to stick to your guns don't you, they are wearing masks so they can't be identified, to intimidate and because they are breaking the law, as I have said peaceful protest absolutely fine carry on your entitled to your opinion, they however are forcing there opinion on others in a dangerous way.

If me and ten of my rugby mates all dress like the sabs in these videos then go charging round the high-street or local shopping centre harassing people what do think will happen? You can't enter a bank wearing a mask, people rob shops wearing masks law full protesters do not.

[grrclark]

6 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Well you like to stick to your guns don't you, they are wearing masks so they can't be identified, to intimidate and because they are breaking the law, as I have said peaceful protest absolutely fine carry on your entitled to your opinion, they however are forcing there opinion on others in a dangerous way.

If me and ten of my rugby mates all dress like the sabs in these videos then go charging round the high-street or local shopping centre harassing people what do think will happen? You can't enter a bank wearing a mask, people rob shops wearing masks law full protesters do not.

I like reasoned debate. 

On the mask front I agree that they wear masks as it is more intimidating and I also agree that with many of them they wear a mask to help to conceal identity as they are employed in illegal activities.  No argument on that front.

Now explain how you can conflate people wearing masks and being a bit shouty and intimidating in a place they shouldn't be and someone on a scooter carrying out drive by theft and robbery?

Again the SABS wearing a mask in a field is different to a masked intruder in my house or garden, neither should be where they are so agreed on that, but there is a very different level of implied threat.

As for you and your rugby mates, you could engage in masked protest in a shopping centre or high street, but your behaviour would determine the consequence. If your actions are causing legitimate fear and concern then you can expect to be moved on, cautioned or arrested, same as the SABS on a hunt protest as it happens.  Of course there is also a different level of exposure given the relative density of people in a high street versus a hunt in a field, so it would be reasonable to assume that you and your marauding bunch of fellow masked rugby playing hoodlums would  attract the attention of the old bill a good bit sooner than the SABS wallopers in a field, maybe shouldn't be the case, but them's the breaks with a limited resource in policing.

Just for devilment, was the fellow rugby mates reference made specifically to aid in building a picture of intimidation?

 

[Gordon R]

grrclark - can't disagree with most, but this is debateable "but there is a very different level of implied threat."

Sabs have a track record for assault, with weapons.

[Mice!]

I play rugby, hence I thinking if I needed ten folk to cause trouble that's who I would call, and yes it paints a picture.

As you say in your post me and my mates would very quickly be spoken to moved on maybe lifted? These sabs are constantly wasting police time at what expense? It wouldn't be tolerated if folk tried it at Wimbledon, protesting about ticket prices, but because its a muddy field out of the way it happens while everyone there is holding a camera hoping someone does something they can use.

Had the lass not had good control of her horse she could have been badly injured  falling from up there.

[Lord v]

7 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

grrclark - can't disagree with most, but this is debateable "but there is a very different level of implied threat."

Sabs have a track record for assault, with weapons.

Agreed. To me they carry exactly the same level of threat. 

[grrclark]

1 minute ago, Gordon R said:

grrclark - can't disagree with most, but this is debateable "but there is a very different level of implied threat."

Sabs have a track record for assault, with weapons.

Where I am coming from Gordon is that if you are a hunt rider you have a reasonable expectation that there will be SABS, so the appearance of people in masks is not unexpected.  They are also in an open field so a close confine encounter can largely be eliminated. (In the case of the video being discussed)

If I am in my house there is no reasonable expectation at all that I will meet someone in a mask, whether or not they intend to clobber me, so the level of fear and alarm differs.  There are also very few options open to avoid confrontation.

In the case of a hunt if the riders were making their way down say a narrow lane and were then ambushed by SABS jumping out of hedges/bushes where it is very much close encounters then that would be different as the options open to avoid confrontation are also much more limited so giving someone a bash on the napper becomes potentially much more justifiable.

[Gordon R]

grrclark - I won't even attempt to argue with that - it makes sense. That said, the edited video shows a nice open field, but the video isn't worth a bean without continuity, with MG11s to back it up, to ensure it has not been tampered with.

[del.gue]

Not read all these posts.

So i will ask the question...has the doorknob who was whipped made a complaint of assault?

 

[grrclark]

9 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I play rugby, hence I thinking if I needed ten folk to cause trouble that's who I would call, and yes it paints a picture.

As you say in your post me and my mates would very quickly be spoken to moved on maybe lifted? These sabs are constantly wasting police time at what expense? It wouldn't be tolerated if folk tried it at Wimbledon, protesting about ticket prices, but because its a muddy field out of the way it happens while everyone there is holding a camera hoping someone does something they can use.

Had the lass not had good control of her horse she could have been badly injured  falling from up there.

Yes, without a doubt the same behaviour in a much more public setting would attract a different level of response from the police and where technically that arguably should not be the case, practicality suggests that it has to be.

Agree the lass could have been injured, but there is also culpable responsibility on the part of the rider for putting herself into a situation where she could be unmounted.  The question must be, did her behaviour in the manner of her riding heighten the risk of an unfavourable conflict with the sab'? 

2 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

grrclark - I won't even attempt to argue with that - it makes sense. That said, the edited video shows a nice open field, but the video isn't worth a bean without continuity, with MG11s to back it up, to ensure it has not been tampered with.

Agreed Gordon, but as the video is all we have that is all we can debate.

I also have no doubt at all that if the opportunity arose and they thought they could get away with it the sabs would have the rider off the horse and give her a sound kicking.

In the same vein i think that the the members of the hunt wouldn't shy away from dishing out the same if they could.

[Gordon R]

"I also have no doubt at all that if the opportunity arose and they thought they could get away with it the sabs would have the rider off the horse and give her a sound kicking.

In the same vein i think that the the members of the hunt wouldn't shy away from dishing out the same if they could."

100% agreed.

 

[Winston72]

Guy in the brown coat had the opportunity but his bottom fell out

[moose man]

13 hours ago, Winston72 said:

Guy in the brown coat had the opportunity but his bottom fell out

Did his bottom fall out or did his brain kick in .?  .The headline could have been” rider and hunt supporter beat up sab “ ..I think he did the right thing , he wasn’t being attacked so would have had a job to justify laying into the sab ...

[panoma1]

14 hours ago, Gordon R said:

"I also have no doubt at all that if the opportunity arose and they thought they could get away with it the sabs would have the rider off the horse and give her a sound kicking.

In the same vein i think that the the members of the hunt wouldn't shy away from dishing out the same if they could."

100% agreed.

 

That's true! Right or wrong, I'm as likely to speak out in support of hunt sabs as they are to speak out in support of the hunt!

[Rewulf]

15 hours ago, Gordon R said:

"I also have no doubt at all that if the opportunity arose and they thought they could get away with it the sabs would have the rider off the horse and give her a sound kicking.

In the same vein i think that the the members of the hunt wouldn't shy away from dishing out the same if they could."

100% agreed.

 

And there it is.
The whip lady , seeing her friend isolated, and knowing this to be possible, 'rode' to the rescue in an aggressive manner.
Overkill or escalation? Possibly, but she did what she thought was right in the circumstances.

Justifiable? As has been mentioned, the sabs track record makes it so in my opinion.

I will mention that this has come up for some heated debate in my circles, with the rights and wrongs usually resting on support ,or not ,for fox hunting.

[Winston72]

7 hours ago, moose man said:

Did his bottom fall out or did his brain kick in .?  .The headline could have been” rider and hunt supporter beat up sab “ ..I think he did the right thing , he wasn’t being attacked so would have had a job to justify laying into the sab ...

I thought the former but could have been as you suggest

[grrclark]

Going off at a slight angle on this it was interesting to see a second article in the Times on this story.

This time they named the rider and made specific reference to her hotel magnate husband.

Of course they did not name the hunt sab who grabbed the bridle and whose actions should also be examined.

This I find hugely disappointing and also highly irresponsible as the lady is now very much a public target.

I also think the Times has pushed this into a class battle as well, barrel bottom scraping journalism and certainly something that makes me consider my subscription.

Despite the rights or wrongs of her actions, and i'm on record saying I think she was wrong, naming her publicly and conflating this story with the family wealth is disappointing in the extreme.

[Mice!]

Hard to name an individual wearing a mask can't think why they wear them?

[Evil Elvis]

I think she acted totally appropriately for the situation, shes heard to shout let go of my horse numerous times so he was warned.

 

When I had my horse if someone, anyone mask or not grabbed the reigns of my horse they would have been in a world of trouble!!! I never used a crop but Izzy was 17.2 hands and to defend her Id have ridden over him!!! She not only did the right thing she controlled that horse and stopped her from smashing over him, I certainly wouldn't have, I think she showed great bravery and composure at the same time!!!

[Gordon R]

Quote

 

Going off at a slight angle on this it was interesting to see a second article in the Times on this story.

This time they named the rider and made specific reference to her hotel magnate husband.

Of course they did not name the hunt sab who grabbed the bridle and whose actions should also be examined.

This I find hugely disappointing and also highly irresponsible as the lady is now very much a public target.

 

It is a side issue, but an important one. It could be argued that her name is known because she has nothing to hide. Whilst I accept she hit the sab repeatedly, as has been pointed out, she did warn him to get off her horse many, many times.

The lack of a sab's name weakens their case. It suggests he has something to hide, aside from his face.

 

[Guest stevo]

Personally I think the sab was lucky.  He would have NOT got away with the same with my horse. ( 17.1 Hunter 8 yr old  ) hes a very well mannered  old boy , but he would have about 5 seconds of that rubbish ! ! I’m pretty sure my George would have dragged him around the field for a bit . Some people are just plain stupid. Either way the woman in my eyes , and speaking as a rider was justified in her actions . 

Edited November 24, 2017 by stevo

[Dekers]

Typical one sided reporting, why didn't the headline read......

Hunt Sabatuer terrifies horse and rider?

[Gordon R]

New footage has emerged from three weeks prior to this incident. The footage clearly shows the rider giving the sabs a mouthful, in rather colourful language. It also shows her surrounded by a number of men in masks, although the female she is shouting at is unmasked. She tells them that are dressed like terrorists - one which they would have trouble disputing.

The sabs will claim it shows her temper - not that it really does. However, it would put a different slant on the latest clip. She will no doubt claim that she is the victim of a sustained, targeted campaign and she would have a fair point.

The Police are now intending to speak to the rider, although I suspect little will happen. A decent brief should make short work of this.

 

[ShootingEgg]

7 hours ago, Gordon R said:

New footage has emerged from three weeks prior to this incident. The footage clearly shows the rider giving the sabs a mouthful, in rather colourful language. It also shows her surrounded by a number of men in masks, although the female she is shouting at is unmasked. She tells them that are dressed like terrorists - one which they would have trouble disputing.

The sabs will claim it shows her temper - not that it really does. However, it would put a different slant on the latest clip. She will no doubt claim that she is the victim of a sustained, targeted campaign and she would have a fair point.

The Police are now intending to speak to the rider, although I suspect little will happen. A decent brief should make short work of this.

 

I think if i was surrounded by masked idiots id tell them what i thought, again she was within the law riding her horse, no one should have to feel intimidated in that way. 

As most have said, why mask up unless you have something to hide. 

[Paul223]

On 22/11/2017 at 10:34, leeds chimp said:

I deal with the horsey world a lot..... And know the full story 

They were drag hunting and a young rider got separated from the rest as the horse could not jump /did not jump a ditch... The young person then got surrounded by 14-16 masked people.... 

Jane... Who is the rider in the video then goes back to get the other rider... Before the filming she trys to get the other rider out.... As seen in the video she then goes towards them and is set upon by the anti...... 

Please check all facts before giving an view...... 

Haven’t read to the end of this topic yet so unsure if it’s been mentioned...It’s been reported that between Jane going back for the young lad and her walking her horse at the aggressors, one sab punched Janes horse in the mouth.

 

15 ish grown people, faces covered shouting and being aggressive towards her. I think she deserves a medal.

[Gordon R]

The sabs may think they have brought off a masterstroke, videoing the rider, but if it did come to a prosecution - which I don't think it will - the sabs identity will be revealed.

I trust that the media would go after him with the same enthusiasm.