wymberley Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) First of all, tin hat is on. Game shooters have an extensive choice available ranging from 3s ( often described as 4s having magical game getting qualities) downwards and anywhere between 28 and 42g. Have we pigeon shooters shot ourselves in the foot? Because it seems to me that the range now available for us in the shot size that has served us well for decades - 7s - is now 28g (or less), take it or leave it (OK, there is the odd exception). For anyone who understands the reasoning behind the old phrase 'pattern kills' and who also concurs with the BASC and BRL given requirements for the necessary average pellet strike count in order to be reasonably sure of a clean kill and who wishes to use that pellet size out to its sensible maximum limit, has little or no chance of doing so. Can we blame the manufacturers for no longer making something that they can't sell? Or is it a case that they have decided that they believe that we don't need them? Either way, it seems to me that we're stuffed. Edit: There, hopefully that should sort it. Edited January 21, 2018 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Are u saying you would like 36 +grm of no7.5 shot ? For game shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 I would use 30 or 32 gram of 7 for pigeon shooting, but they would obviously be more expensive than a normal ounce load. For me it would not really be worth it for an extra few grams. I am more than happy with my cheap ounce of 7 or 7.5 for 95% of my pigeon shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 I think 32 gram of English 7 would most definitely have its place , perfect for partridge, grouse . great for pheasant unless your on a real driven shoot with some actual tall birds, cover ALL your pigeon and crow needs Some of the shells being used on your average game shoots and used buy pigeon shooters nowadays is just plain ridiculous. But hey it’s your dollar ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, motty said: I would use 30 or 32 gram of 7 for pigeon shooting, but they would obviously be more expensive than a normal ounce load. For me it would not really be worth it for an extra few grams. I am more than happy with my cheap ounce of 7 or 7.5 for 95% of my pigeon shooting. Hear what you're saying, but the option to spend a bit more for those extra few grams which can make a difference giving that extra bit of confidence has disappeared. 11 minutes ago, stevo said: I think 32 gram of English 7 would most definitely have its place , perfect for partridge, grouse . great for pheasant unless your on a real driven shoot with some actual tall birds, cover ALL your pigeon and crow needs Some of the shells being used on your average game shoots and used buy pigeon shooters nowadays is just plain ridiculous. But hey it’s your dollar ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnytheboy Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 They make loads of European cartridges in 7s and smaller, if you look through the likes of the RC catalogue you will see most of them are made in 7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, johnnytheboy said: They make loads of European cartridges in 7s and smaller, if you look through the likes of the RC catalogue you will see most of them are made in 7s That would be good. Thanks to Stevo who's sorted me out with the one gun I was having trouble with, there' s no panic. However, ther's another gun on its way so if you could help me out as my head is spinning from poring over the various spec's and give a 32g load of 7s in fibre which are readily available in the UK that would be superb and greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 I am old enough to remember when there was no 'pigeon' cartridge ! There were just cartridges that were not wildfowl or clay loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 5 hours ago, AYA117 said: I am old enough to remember when there was no 'pigeon' cartridge ! There were just cartridges that were not wildfowl or clay loads. Me too!.............A Pheasant, Grouse or Rabbit doesn't know it's been killed by a Pigeon cartridge and a Pigeon doesn't know it's been killed by a game cartridge........likewise none of the aforementioned will know they have been killed by a clay cartridge? Case, primer, powder, wad and shot........that's what a cartridge is made up of!......what's the difference?......The printing on the cartridge and the box! And your preference of shot size and weight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 I think us pigeon shooters are spoilt for choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 40 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Me too!.............A Pheasant, Grouse or Rabbit doesn't know it's been killed by a Pigeon cartridge and a Pigeon doesn't know it's been killed by a game cartridge........likewise none of the aforementioned will know they have been killed by a clay cartridge? Case, primer, powder, wad and shot........that's what a cartridge is made up of!......what's the difference?......The printing on the cartridge and the box! And your preference of shot size and weight! All sorted for you now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billytheghillie Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 My tuppence worth, I shoot crows with 28g 7s, clear pigeon. Its not the cartridges, its the nut, behind the butt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 34 minutes ago, billytheghillie said: My tuppence worth, I shoot crows with 28g 7s, clear pigeon. Its not the cartridges, its the nut, behind the butt. 28 gm 7 clear pigeon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog1408 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 9 hours ago, motty said: 28 gm 7 clear pigeon? 30-32 gm 6's I thought ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robertt Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 I get a felt pen and cross out 'game' and write ' pigeon ' on the cartridge. Not totally foolproof as if a pheasant gets up you've altered the cartridge and stand no chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Cartridges suitable for pigeon? That'll be whatever is the cheapest 6/7/whatever 26-30g whatever I can find at my local RFD... I aint fussy and neither are the pigeons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billytheghillie Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 14 hours ago, motty said: 28 gm 7 clear pigeon? YUP, 28, 7,s its the nut behind the butt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, thepasty said: Cartridges suitable for pigeon? That'll be whatever is the cheapest 6/7/whatever 26-30g whatever I can find at my local RFD... I aint fussy and neither are the pigeons! Yep, I'm now of the opinion that that is increasingly the in vogue opinion. To me, the humble woodpigeon is arguably our finest sporting quarry and as such deserves better. As I'm in a very small minority on here, I think I'll leave it there. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, wymberley said: Yep, I'm now of the opinion that that is increasingly the in vogue opinion. To me, the humble woodpigeon is arguably our finest sporting quarry and as such deserves better. As I'm in a very small minority on here, I think I'll leave it there. Cheers. You mean the pigeon deserves a quality cartridge ? I do ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, wymberley said: Yep, I'm now of the opinion that that is increasingly the in vogue opinion. To me, the humble woodpigeon is arguably our finest sporting quarry and as such deserves better. As I'm in a very small minority on here, I think I'll leave it there. Cheers. Deserves better? I've never had a pigeon come back and ask to be more dead. Next time out I'll polish each cart first and maybe stick a daisy or two in the crimp....that should keep them happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 36 minutes ago, billytheghillie said: YUP, 28, 7,s its the nut behind the butt! Sorry, you've lost me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 If killing with an expensive shell gives you a warm fuzzy feeling good luck to you, I shall continue to shoot cleanly with my chosen brand and will spend the savings on more shells. I do like the idea of changing the shells name with a marker pen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Wymberley, can or worms springs to mind, bottom line is most pigeon shooters don't want to pay a penny more for cartridges than they need to, especially for shooting pigeons over decoys. How much one is willing to spend will depend on ones income. Game shooters will in general pay more for various reasons, 35p for a cartridge is cheap compared to £35 for the bird, snobbery, peer pressure etc. For the finest game bird (or I think so) the pigeon right or wrong the current trend is any old 28gm cheap cartridge will do, why spend more? Especially as the price increases over the last year or so have widened the gap between a budget clay cartridge and a pigeon cartridge. Some manufactures have spotted the trend and responded with a budget 29gm loads of number six shot but even with 1gm more pattern density is questionable. How about a 28gm in six and half shot at budget clay cartridge prices that would be good to see, but may be not good for the manufactures profit. For if you consider how the manufactures make thier money and believe the idea that their is little profit in budget clay cartridges then they need the extra money from the pigeon cartridges and game cartridges to be profitable. So if pigeon cartridge sales flop as everybody moves to a cheap clay cartridge to shoot pigeons them might that not cause an increase in the cost of clay cartridges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: Wymberley, can or worms springs to mind, bottom line is most pigeon shooters don't want to pay a penny more for cartridges than they need to, especially for shooting pigeons over decoys. How much one is willing to spend will depend on ones income. Game shooters will in general pay more for various reasons, 35p for a cartridge is cheap compared to £35 for the bird, snobbery, peer pressure etc. For the finest game bird (or I think so) the pigeon right or wrong the current trend is any old 28gm cheap cartridge will do, why spend more? Especially as the price increases over the last year or so have widened the gap between a budget clay cartridge and a pigeon cartridge. Some manufactures have spotted the trend and responded with a budget 29gm loads of number six shot but even with 1gm more pattern density is questionable. How about a 28gm in six and half shot at budget clay cartridge prices that would be good to see, but may be not good for the manufactures profit. For if you consider how the manufactures make thier money and believe the idea that their is little profit in budget clay cartridges then they need the extra money from the pigeon cartridges and game cartridges to be profitable. So if pigeon cartridge sales flop as everybody moves to a cheap clay cartridge to shoot pigeons them might that not cause an increase in the cost of clay cartridges? How much someone will pay for cartridges is only partly down to their income. I can easily afford to buy the most expensive cartridges to use on pigeons, but I believe I would be extremely stupid to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Just now, motty said: How much someone will pay for cartridges is only partly down to their income. I can easily afford to buy the most expensive cartridges to use on pigeons, but I believe I would be extremely stupid to do so. Good point, but if money was truly not important because you won the euro millions what then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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