ANOTHER BETRAYAL

[yod dropper]

4 hours ago, oowee said:

We have a shortage of houses because we don't build enough. Too much 'not in my back yard' mentality.

Alternatively, as we're unable to build enough houses we could address the demand side.

4 hours ago, oowee said:

We loose far more in balance of trade. Surely it's good to see such a vibrant economy doing well and supporting the growth of other countries, our future customers?

 I would have thought that remittances were actually rather significant when compared to our trade deficit.  I'm all for growth in other countries though I'd say it's best done through mutually beneficial trade.

Edited March 13, 2018 by yod dropper

[Vince Green]

4 hours ago, oowee said:

Surely it's good to see such a vibrant economy doing well and supporting the growth of other countries?

Being sucked dry is how I would phrase it, no, its not good to see. Charity begins very much at home

Edited March 13, 2018 by Vince Green

[oowee]

26 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Being sucked dry is how I would phrase it, no, its not good to see. Charity begins very much at home

Sucked dry . We have never been better off than we are now. Better to share with others and help those less fortunate.

There is no disappointment so numbing... as someone no better than you achieving more.

[Gordon R]

oowee - you clearly haven't got a clue as to the scale of our being "sucked dry", or you would not be peddling that line.

[Newbie to this]

46 minutes ago, oowee said:

We have never been better off than we are now

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk

I don't think I would class nearly 2 trillion in debt, 'never been better'

I'm in no way saying that immigration is to blame, but to say we are better off than we have ever been, is burying your head in the sand. But it's ok, Corbyn will just borrow more to give everyone, everything. 

[oowee]

10 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk

I don't think I would class nearly 2 trillion in debt, 'never been better'

I'm in no way saying that immigration is to blame, but to say we are better off than we have ever been, is burying your head in the sand. But it's ok, Corbyn will just borrow more to give everyone, everything. 

That debt may well be the reason we have never been better. Living off our kids future 

[das]

On 01/03/2018 at 13:42, pinfireman said:

We all knew what we voted for.............Freedom! Freedom to make our own laws, freedom to restrict mass immigration,  freedom to be a sovereign nation again, freedom to prevent being part of a Federal State of Europe... We KNEW what we were voting for.....those who voted Remain did not!

+20  Well said friend

[12gauge82]

7 hours ago, oowee said:

Sucked dry . We have never been better off than we are now. Better to share with others and help those less fortunate.

There is no disappointment so numbing... as someone no better than you achieving more.

Totally deluded post, anyone under the age of 40 has been hit with some of the highest house prices compared to wages ever, couple that with wage suppression for the masses of people in low to medium skilled jobs and I think you'd find there are millions of particularly young people who would disagree with you, granted these problems are by no means all or even mostly immigrations fault, but it hasn't helped.

[old man]

19 hours ago, oowee said:

The point is we don't have enough people in construction, skilled or otherwise. You can argue that the indigenous population should take these jobs and i would agree but until they do immigration will fill the void. 

There is a situation here worth discussion? Concerning the work ethic that we seem to have bred out of our own population?

As is usual here, the social backstop has been hijacked towards the situation as now. "Dont bother getting up we will send the money"

The cause? Possibly the pursuit of a policy where everyone claims to be special case and worthy of more than the next? Strange the way it continues?

How can we have the reported situation where some get twice the so called living wage in benefits?

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by old man

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, old man said:

There is a situation here worth discussion? Concerning the work ethic that we seem to have bred out of our own population?

As is usual here, the social backstop has been hijacked towards the situation as now. "Dont bother getting up we will send the money"

The cause? Possibly the pursuit of a policy where everyone claims to be special case and worthy of more than the next? Strange the way it continues?

How can we have the reported situation where some get twice the so called living wage in benefits?

 

That's absolutely true, so true its actually scary. Unemployment is 4.4% at the moment with probably at least the same again falsely hidden in the sickness figures. Why do we need more people?

Edited March 14, 2018 by Vince Green

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Vince Green said:

That's absolutely true, so true its actually scary.

Whats even more scary is the fact that we dont seem capable of tackling it.
We are importing more people in to compound it, whilst struggling to cope with what we have now.
And forgetting that, at some point, we wont be able to afford it anymore.
Leaving a nation of hungry mouths, with no hands to feed them.
Then those lofty ideas of socialists and liberals will be blown away in the wind.

[Vince Green]

7 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Leaving a nation of hungry mouths, with no hands to feed them.
 

Who will all be voting labour to a man, Blair and Brown's legacy will be complete and Catweasle Corbyn will be in charge

Edited March 14, 2018 by Vince Green

[Rewulf]

15 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Who will all be voting labour to a man, Blair and Brown's legacy will be complete and Catweasle Corbyn will be in charge

Corby will be safely in his retirement dacha just outside Moscow before the SHTF.

Seriously though, the situation needs addressing before the balance tips.
Unless theyre planning a clean out, WW3 or global flu pandemic ?

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Who will all be voting labour to a man, Blair and Brown's legacy will be complete and Catweasle Corbyn will be in charge

This is indeed a key driver behind the benefits system - as developed by Blair and Brown.

I am 100% in support of a caring welfare society; one where the ill, injured, disabled, elderly, etc. are assisted and supported through being part of a caring and civilised society.  This would include a good free health service, good pensions for those who have worked, care and assistance to the ill and disabled.  This should include a decent standard of living that would reflect a normal working wage earner.

I am 100% against supporting the plain lazy, the cheats, the 'system feeders' who are in effect a parasite on society in general.  IF people choose a lifestyle of living at the expense of others, it should be a basic existence - basic accommodation, food and clothing.  Minimum wage level, and paid in the form of coupons exchangeable for food, bus fares, basic electrical goods etc.  No money for foreign holidays, booze, smoking, gambling, pay to view TV services etc.  These are privileges that should be earned through contributing to society as a whole.

No one should starve or be homeless, but neither should people be able to live a more than comfortable and privileged life at the expense of other hard working individuals.

Saving and being able to pass your 'hard earned' on to your family should be encouraged - not penalised.  Work should be rewarded and worthwhile.

The big problem is that the modern generation have lost the idea that comfort and luxuries have to be worked for and earned, and are NOT handed out for free.  The present system of heavily taxing workers and savers - and handing it free to the lazy and feckless will just discourage anyone from working.

This is not Brexit (or Remoan) territory, but it is the BETRAYAL of the hardworking Mr and Mrs Average as per the title of the thread.

[pinfireman]

On 3/11/2018 at 20:21, oowee said:

Complete tosh.

and you know this...............how?

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

 

I am 100% against supporting the plain lazy, the cheats, the 'system feeders' who are in effect a parasite on society in general.  IF people choose a lifestyle of living at the expense of others, it should be a basic existence - basic accommodation, food and clothing.  Minimum wage level, and paid in the form of coupons exchangeable for food, bus fares, basic electrical goods etc.  No money for foreign holidays, booze, smoking, gambling, pay to view TV services etc.  These are privileges that should be earned through contributing to society as a whole.

 

I have a reasonable income, it varies being self employed, but I am comfortable.
I have to think carefully about luxuries, Im a single parent with a 15 and 17 year ,who both will be in education till they both finish uni.
We havnt had a foreign holiday since 2014, and I drive around in various cars, none of which is worth over £1000.
I am not unhappy with my situation.

I have a niece who has 5 children, she has never worked at 38 years old.
2 of her children have disabilities, one has ADHD and her youngest had a heart problem when she was born, both seem perfectly normal to me (but who am I to judge)
She has around 5 foreign holidays a year, shes at Disney world Florida at the moment.
She has a very comfortable life, and with her youngest being 4 years old, has no intention of working anytime soon, in fact there was talk of having another kid.
And no Im not jealous, I wouldnt swap lives with her, I feel sorry for the level of apathy within her.

I tried to estimate what her cost to the state was once in benefits, its around £45000 per annum.
She has 2 sisters exactly the same BTW.

[pinfireman]

On 3/11/2018 at 22:39, oowee said:

 government stating the figures were unavailable which now appears was a lie.

In the run-up to the Brexit referendum, ministers had insisted the figures were not available.

But the cost of open doors migration has now been revealed.

But it is not clear what figures were not available and the assertion that the cost is revealed is not evidenced. 

The govt gets the data from DWP. The data requested for a breakdown by Country of origin of recipient of benefit, correlated to  tax paid by country of origin does not exist. The article makes the statements which are not substantiated or evidenced.

You only have to come up to South Yorkshire to see the "benefits" unlimited mass migration from EU countries has brought to Britain.....In South Yorkshire alone, we have 30,000 Albanian and Slovak gypsies (Mr Blair said we would only get 30,000 across the whole of Britain). They contribute" massively "to our economy, by being unlicensed (and uninsured) minicab drivers, scrap metal collectors (not scrap when it was a cable running along railway lines), car wash "operatives", pizza delivery drivers, .....most of them are illiterate, and almost all of them do not have a "proper" job.  Highly skilled  workers? Don,t make me laugh!

Small scale, selective immigration can be a benefit to a country......mass immigration is a disaster! Go to Rotherham, or Telford, and ask the locals there what they think to it!

On 3/12/2018 at 10:06, bostonmick said:

The cost of migration to the UK will be documented the same as any benefit from it.i doubt any government would ever give these figures to the public as all are pro Europe. Boston has one of the highest population of migrants in the country if not the highest.most of those who work are in low paid jobs so will receive tax credits or whatever its called now.housing benefit.there must be something in the air here also as once the young girls arrive they all seem to get pregnant.this brings into play more benefits.the mp for the area was asked on local radio the figures for crime by migrants.his reply was there are no figures but also nothing to show any increase in crime since the increase from eu.he was unable to explain the dozen or so murders and attempted murders all committed by migrants against migrants in the previous two years.something we had not seen before.i spent years cleaning the cattle yard so don't need any extra b/s from the government on Europe. 

Eloquently put Mick! Oowee should get off his high horse, and visit the areas where mass migration  has had a bad impact on the local population!

On 3/12/2018 at 11:14, TriBsa said:

Exactly, the arguments for mass imigration are based on political dogma just like the agruments for staying in the EU. Both arguments lack substance. The downside of imigration is all around us for everyone to see, but we have a political establishment in denial. The destruction of our culture and way of life to be replaced by a polygot population was planned, to enable us to be easily absorbed into the new european superstate planned by the globalists.

Correct!

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I have a reasonable income, it varies being self employed, but I am comfortable.
I have to think carefully about luxuries, Im a single parent with a 15 and 17 year ,who both will be in education till they both finish uni.
We havnt had a foreign holiday since 2014, and I drive around in various cars, none of which is worth over £1000.
I am not unhappy with my situation.

Similar to me;  I am now retired (slightly early at 60).  I had a fairly good income and worked (apart from University) mainly as an employee, but a year of self employed (following a redundancy in the 1980s) and 3 months unemployed in 42 years.  I also worked all of my University holidays (to pay my expenses at University).

I have saved hard all of my life and have only had 3 foreign holidays (ever), and been fairly economical with UK holidays.  I do have 3 cars, but all are over 10 years old and were second hand, and a few guns etc, again almost all bought second hand.  I am comfortably off, but cannot afford to be over extravagant.

I was able to retire early owing to an 'early retirement offer' from my employer, and having saved quite hard all my life.  Apart from a normal state pension which I expect to draw when I reach 66, I don't get any benefits, though I make occasional use of the NHS.

I have never had any Sky, Netflix, Spotify, or any pay per view/listen etc., though do have Amazon Prime (mainly for the free next day delivery). 

If I am honest, I find it both insulting and offensive that I have to fund (through taxes) people on benefits who get a lifestyle that, despite having been careful with money (some would say mean!) all my life - I cannot afford.  And will have to continue that with taxes on my estate after I die (assuming I still have some savings left) because my house alone uses up all my inheritance tax allowance.

[pinfireman]

On 3/12/2018 at 13:58, oowee said:

So the labour value contribution to the UK economy and the taxes paid count for nothing? Increasingly it's those workers with higher educational attainment that are likely to travel here. A proportion will of course stay and invest.

I remember many of my friends doing the same with Germany back in the early 80's when work was so hard to come by in the UK. Living in lodgings earning as much as possible and then coming home.

What rubbish! 3 MILLION people came here (probably an under estimate!)  how many were professional, or highly skilled? You know, the ones the CBI and Institute of Directors said we needed?  Bringing with them a talent or skill we needed?   Take out the ones who failed to find work (or did not want it), the ones on zero hours, low paid (often less than the Minimum wage),  all of whom pay little or no tax, and what are you left with?  Probably only 15% actually paying in significant Income tax! Barely enough to cover the NHS treatment of those taken ill here (or who arrived here needing treatment!)

As someone who was in the building trade at that time, let me tell you, the ones who went to Germany were ALL highly skilled tradesmen! And they were paid top dollar for their effiorts! They did NOT take their wives and children with them! They did NOT claim benefits! They DID pay taxes in Germany! The Germans used Turkish immigrants as cheap labour.  (A policy your average German is now bitterly regretting!

Never take government figures  as being either truthful or accurate where immigration is concerned!

[pinfireman]

On 3/12/2018 at 15:16, Worzel-gummidge said:

You need a translator on the sites I've been on in London.

You need a translator to  get around Londonistan. It,s not our capital city any more.............

On 3/12/2018 at 16:07, oowee said:

Been in the offices.

That says it all!

[pinfireman]

On 3/12/2018 at 18:19, oowee said:

They are, and increasingly it;'s those with better education traveling for work. It's not exclusive.

Ah I see what you mean. They don't rent homes or buy food or contribute to the economy through there employer then. I guess if you are talking of those not employed doing casual labour then I see your point. Plenty of those here before they came? Not that you and me aver pay cash in hand we always insist that tax is paid.

They often rent "homes" from other Eastern European landlords!  And if you want to see  considerable numbers of them buying food, I suggest you go to a Food bank in Barnsley....locals cannot get served for being inundated with   South Eastern Europeans.  As for "better education" most of the Bulgarian, Albanian ,Slovakian,  migrants are barely literate!   They cannot read, or understand, Health and Safety Rules, and most do not  speak  English? So what are they "highly educated" in.............pizza delivery, car washing....etc etc....

[pinfireman]

On 3/13/2018 at 00:03, oowee said:

Source data is limited but this article from 2016 on 2011 data will give an idea, and Eurostat will probably have more upto date stats.

In construction they were never UK nationals. The UK post war has traditionally relied upon immigrant labour to support the industry (Irish). Despite pretty substantial training programs UK wide driven by the former Training and Enterprise Councils the supply has never met demand. How hard is it to get a tradesman for plumbing or electrical work. 

In high skilled work areas many UK residents will prefer to go abroad for more money and opportunity. Science education is a classic case of brain drain. 

Rubbish! I worked for  3 giant construction companies during the 1960,s...yes we employed  quite a few Irish, all of whom were  unskilled labour! All of them! We never had skilled workers coming in from abroad! We trained our own, as apprentices, when being an apprentice took 4 years to properly learn your trade! We lost that when greedy companies decided to scrap their apprenticeship schemes in favour of cheap (and that,s the operative word) semi-skilled labour from abroad, who would work for less than the Minimum Wage, on Zero hours contracts! As for the "Brain Drain" abroad, that was caused by a Labour Government (no surprise there) introducing massive tax rates, thus driving out the high earners, and those with  the skills and aspirations to do well in life here!

23 hours ago, yod dropper said:

There is an irony in that based on ONS figures of 2.3 people per household and with net migration having been running at more than 250,000 for some years we haven't even been building enough houses for the immigrants let alone those already here so you can't wonder with basic economic principles of supply and demand that so many people have been stuffed by house prices being so high.  

Of course, if we let in enough construction workers we'd need some more medical staff* and then some more construction workers to build their houses and then some more medical staff etc etc (* and all other roles in the economy to sustain an increased population).

Our economy loses a lot through remittances.  From the Financial Times, 2016: "The World Bank estimates migrant workers sent back about $24.9bn last year, making Britain the fourth-largest source of remittances in the world."

CORRECT!

[pinfireman]

20 hours ago, oowee said:

True of most things i guess but overall we all know there's an overall benefit even if it has some down sides. 

NO! We do not "ALL KNOW"  that there has been a benefit to us...................apart from some dodgy government stats, we have not seen any evidence of it! Perhaps you work for the government?

19 hours ago, oowee said:

I hope it's the last one. 

You clearly live in hope....or is that delusion?

17 hours ago, oowee said:

Sucked dry . We have never been better off than we are now. Better to share with others and help those less fortunate.

There is no disappointment so numbing... as someone no better than you achieving more.

Charity begins at "HOME"!

[bostonmick]

17 hours ago, oowee said:

 We have never been better off than we are now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

I think some people would be better off leaving the keyboard alone when drinking.

[oowee]

57 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

I think some people would be better off leaving the keyboard alone when drinking.

I don't drink  Lucky I don't if you think my post already looks like I was 

Gosh, Pinfireman you have been busy .  All this makes interesting reading and I can't help thinking that much of the way we view the world and matters of immigration in particular, comes from where we live, what we do and our life experiences. My experience seems to be vastly different from most on here, I used to work for government (but don't hold that against me ). 

I think we all agree that mass unchecked migration is not right for the country particularly where the resources are not in place to embed new residents into the community and help the community adjust. My difficulty is trying to see how we would or could manage migration flows, when we have so many gaps in our labour force, a benefits package that still appears (i don't know for certain) to support a non work culture for some, and a reluctance for the workers to be mobile.

Most of us (but not everyone) has mostly positive experiences of migrants and the strong work ethic that they exhibit. 

Coming back the the original post, rather than see Corbyn as betraying Britain, it's simply someone coming from a different place that see's the world in a different way from most.