steveshoots Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 Well i lost my fox red lab dog to cancer 2 weeks ago. I moved heaven and earth trying to save his life and couldn't. My wife and I have been through hell and back. It was like losing one of the kids. I was going to pack up shooting altogether but was talked out of it by my son the question I need some advice on is ESS dogs hard to train up ? i have heard different ideas that they are very lively and hard to train they are no good till there at least 3 year old as they are nuts. I obviously have had no dealings on training this type of dog . From what i have seen on shoots especially walked up flushing shoots they look amazing which is why I really fancy one any advice would be very help full . Thanks in Advance Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 Losing a dog can be heart breaking. Some people deal with it better than others. If you are a doggy man then get another. As for spaniels, I had no experience with them until I got my sprocker getting on for five years ago. I can honestly say it has been a greatly rewarding experience, certainly for me and hopefully for the dog too as he has had over 300 days out shooting with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 It is too easy to generalise. I trained them for many years and now stick with labs that require a lot less effort. ESS are all characters and I agree they do seem to mature later but it depends a lot on the breeding. You really need to research this as there are lines that are relatively calm and others that are fire crackers. I would never discourage anyone from a springer but you need to think what you want it for. I wildfowl, occasionally shoot driven game, and pick up on moorland three days a seek so labs are more suited to me. When I trained springers I largely beat or did rough shooting so they were perfect. I sometimes hanker after an ESS for its character but deep down know I am better sticking with my labs. Whatever you will only get out what you put in. Many with unruly ESS blame the breed not ghemselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scobydog Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 I have a Ess dog and think they are great, I do rough shooting a bit of wildfowling and pigeons/rooks and crows, he is fine on all of them, he is of the calmer bred ones so great with kids and other dogs as well. only difficult bit of training was to get him to pick up runners, now sorted that one. For what I do a Springer is good enough for me, my friend does all the same and uses a Lab equally as well, so it depends on what you are happy with. Like Dave says many blame the breed not themselves or their training methods when it goes wrong. Atb Scobydog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) Training a springer not that difficult buy from good working stock also try to see both parent's if you can. BB sold me my latest springer and he has been so easy to train. At the end of the day you will only get out of the dog what you have put in. Stan at 9 month old on cold game Edited June 15, 2018 by B725 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeonshooter22 Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 Go for it. Spaniels are a lot different to labs mind (as I realized!) but I love how much enthusiasm they have where as our lab is more laid back and occasionally gives the 'do I have too?' look. Getting a spaniel has even started to convince my other half (lab man) to possibly get a spaniel next.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 13 minutes ago, B725 said: Training a springer not that difficult buy from good working stock also try to see both parent's if you can. BB sold me my latest springer and he has been so easy to train. At the end of the day you will only get out of the dog what you have put in. And your dog has been lucky enough to retrieve Grey Partridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveshoots Posted June 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 1 hour ago, JDog said: Losing a dog can be heart breaking. Some people deal with it better than others. If you are a doggy man then get another. As for spaniels, I had no experience with them until I got my sprocker getting on for five years ago. I can honestly say it has been a greatly rewarding experience, certainly for me and hopefully for the dog too as he has had over 300 days out shooting with me. Thanks J dog yes grief especially for my wife is a very hard thing to cope with and yes I will be buying another dog as i am a firm believer in if you shoot you should have a dog. Thanks to all for your very welcome advice given me food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 Springers are a lot different to labs lot depends on what you’re shooting is rough walked up beating springer driven wildfowling labs a better choice always worth sending big bird a message as she has often got a cracking dog to re home none are that hard to train as long as you put the time and effort in all the best of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 J Dog Not only partridge but woodcock as well as pheasant I think if you get the chance to pick up as many different thing's as you can it's better for it. He is getting the hand of pigeon as I have left that until last just because of all the feathers. Swimming lessons next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycooker Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 I rehomed Molly from here she’s a little cracker My first dog I would be lost without her now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipper Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 The first springer I trained I used Peter moxans book .I put the time in training him . He was born in January and I took him beating in November .After the first drive the keeper told the beaters to put the dogs on a lead.There were 100 of birds on the ride . He told me to work my dog to flush a few .then I had him drop to the whistle.Only trouble was he was a crocodile .presant springer was a very slow learner he's ok now.Ive had 2 labs in between good dogs.Thing is with dogs every ones different the more you put in the more you get out.Dipper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted June 15, 2018 Report Share Posted June 15, 2018 I only do drive shooting i have two esp mother and daughter the mother will run in if my missis is not watching her but the young one 4 years old.As all ways been steady she will not move till i tell her i have keepers come over and praysed her up saying how good she is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveshoots Posted June 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 On 15/06/2018 at 19:26, dipper said: The first springer I trained I used Peter moxans book .I put the time in training him . He was born in January and I took him beating in November .After the first drive the keeper told the beaters to put the dogs on a lead.There were 100 of birds on the ride . He told me to work my dog to flush a few .then I had him drop to the whistle.Only trouble was he was a crocodile .presant springer was a very slow learner he's ok now.Ive had 2 labs in between good dogs.Thing is with dogs every ones different the more you put in the more you get out.Dipper. could you give me the title of the book please ? i have talked it over with the wife and she is keen on a ESS. I am very capable of training dogs as i have done all my shooting life but never a springer and may need all the help i can get thanks for your help. Best regards Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, steveshoots said: could you give me the title of the book please ? i have talked it over with the wife and she is keen on a ESS. I am very capable of training dogs as i have done all my shooting life but never a springer and may need all the help i can get thanks for your help. Best regards Steve. If I can find it I have this book somewhere and I will gladly send it to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Recommend Joe Irving "gundogs their learning chain" Joe was a spaniel trainer. Peter moxons book I recall as being "Training the roughshooters dog" .There should be loads second hand online and it is a good book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveshoots Posted June 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 12 hours ago, JDog said: If I can find it I have this book somewhere and I will gladly send it to you. well that's very generous of you J dog Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveshoots Posted June 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Dave at kelton said: Recommend Joe Irving "gundogs their learning chain" Joe was a spaniel trainer. Peter moxons book I recall as being "Training the roughshooters dog" .There should be loads second hand online and it is a good book. Thanks Dave will have a look for it and buy it thanks for your help. As a follow up I bought it of ebay. Edited June 17, 2018 by steveshoots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry78 Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 If you have trained dogs before go for the ESS Im sure it will turn out the type of dog you want Im sorry hear about your Fox red lab i have one myself use him for Ducks there a Great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 i have a 6 year old female springer,a real giant 37kg when last weighed,and ever so calm,she is my perfect hide dog,and a brillant retriever over and in water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, hawkfanz said: i have a 6 year old female springer,a real giant 37kg when last weighed,and ever so calm,she is my perfect hide dog,and a brillant retriever over and in water. That is bigger than my red setter and he is big at 32kg. Are you sure its not a liver and white Large Munsterlander. Edited June 18, 2018 by loriusgarrulus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 On 17/06/2018 at 13:33, steveshoots said: Thanks Dave will have a look for it and buy it thanks for your help. As a follow up I bought it of ebay. Forgot to mention joining the gundog training tips facebook group. If you weed out some patent nonsense there is lots of good advice and somewhere to turn when you have inevitable difficulties. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 no lori defo ess she was bred near brecon,some ft champs in pedigree.i would love to know if her siblings were this big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveshoots Posted June 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 6 hours ago, Dave at kelton said: Forgot to mention joining the gundog training tips facebook group. If you weed out some patent nonsense there is lots of good advice and somewhere to turn when you have inevitable difficulties. Good luck Cheers Dave looking around all the local breeders at the moment as you well know picking a pup that i have had no dealings with at all ie (ESS) is a minefield but i will be getting one i'm not being too picky as long as both parents are from a good working background thats all that matters to me , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinw Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 Have a look at Cleulow kennels on the web, I bought my last bitch of him, he had a dog pup left out of some fantastic breeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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