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steveshoots

English Springer Spaniel.

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Well i lost my fox red lab dog to cancer 2 weeks ago. I moved heaven and earth trying to save his life and couldn't. My wife and I have been through hell and back.

It was like losing one of the kids. I was going to pack up shooting altogether but was talked out of it by my son the question I need some advice on is ESS dogs

hard to train up ? i have heard different ideas that they are very lively and hard to train they are no good till there at least 3 year old  as they are nuts.

I obviously have had no dealings on training this type of dog . From what i have seen on shoots especially walked up flushing shoots they look amazing which is why 

I really fancy one any advice would be very help full .

Thanks in Advance Steve.

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Losing a dog can be heart breaking. Some people deal with it better than others. If you are a doggy man then get another.

As for spaniels, I had no experience with them until I got my sprocker getting on for five years ago. I can honestly say it has been a greatly rewarding experience, certainly for me and hopefully for the dog too as he has had over 300 days out shooting with me. 

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It is too easy to generalise. I trained them for many years and now stick with labs that require a lot less effort. ESS are all characters and I agree they do seem to mature later but it depends a lot on the breeding. You really need to research this as there are lines that are relatively calm and others that are fire crackers. I would never discourage anyone from a springer but you need to think what you want it for. I wildfowl, occasionally shoot driven game, and pick up on moorland three days a seek so labs are more suited to me. When I trained springers I largely beat or did rough shooting so they were perfect. I sometimes hanker after an ESS for its character but deep down know I am better sticking with my labs. Whatever you will only get out what you put in. Many with unruly ESS blame the breed not ghemselves

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I have a Ess dog and think they are great, I do rough shooting a bit of wildfowling and pigeons/rooks and crows, he is fine on all of them, he is of the calmer bred ones so great with kids and other dogs as well. only difficult bit of training was to get him to pick up runners, now sorted that one. For what I do a Springer is good enough for me, my friend does all the same and uses a Lab equally as well, so it depends on what you are happy with. Like Dave says many blame the breed not themselves or their training methods when it goes wrong.

 

Atb Scobydog

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Training a springer not that difficult buy from good working stock also try to see both parent's if you can. BB sold me my latest springer and he has been so easy to train. At the end of the day you will only get out of the dog what you have put in. 

Stan at 9 month old on cold game 20171217_124121.jpg

Edited by B725

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Go for it. Spaniels are a lot different to labs mind (as I realized!) but I love how much enthusiasm they have where as our lab is more laid back and occasionally gives the 'do I have too?' look. Getting a spaniel has even started to convince my other half (lab man) to possibly get a spaniel next.. 

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13 minutes ago, B725 said:

Training a springer not that difficult buy from good working stock also try to see both parent's if you can. BB sold me my latest springer and he has been so easy to train. At the end of the day you will only get out of the dog what you have put in. 

20171217_124121.jpg

And your dog has been lucky enough to retrieve Grey Partridges.

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1 hour ago, JDog said:

Losing a dog can be heart breaking. Some people deal with it better than others. If you are a doggy man then get another.

As for spaniels, I had no experience with them until I got my sprocker getting on for five years ago. I can honestly say it has been a greatly rewarding experience, certainly for me and hopefully for the dog too as he has had over 300 days out shooting with me. 

Thanks J dog yes grief especially for my wife is a very hard thing to cope with and yes I will be buying another dog as i am a firm believer in if you shoot you should have a dog.

Thanks to all for your very welcome advice given me food for thought.

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Springers are a lot different to labs lot depends on what you’re shooting is 

rough walked up beating springer

driven wildfowling labs a better choice 

always worth sending big bird a message as she has often got a cracking dog to re home 

none are that hard to train as long as you put the time and effort in 

all the best 

of 

7266DAB2-312E-4630-AD31-5F190551F9B2.jpeg

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J Dog 

Not only partridge but woodcock as well as pheasant I think if you get the chance to pick up as many different thing's as you can it's better for it. He is getting the hand of pigeon as I have left that until last just because of all the feathers. Swimming lessons next 

 

 

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The first springer I trained I used Peter moxans book .I put the time in training him . He was born in January and I took him beating in November .After the first drive the keeper told the beaters to put the dogs on a lead.There were 100 of birds on the ride . He told me to work my dog to flush a few .then I had him drop to the  whistle.Only trouble was he was a crocodile .presant springer was a very slow learner he's ok now.Ive had 2 labs in between  good dogs.Thing is with dogs every ones different the more you put in the more you get out.Dipper.

 

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I only do drive shooting i have two esp mother and daughter the mother will run in if my missis is not watching her but the young one 4 years old.As all ways been steady she will not move till i tell her i have keepers come over and praysed her up saying how good she is

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On 15/06/2018 at 19:26, dipper said:

The first springer I trained I used Peter moxans book .I put the time in training him . He was born in January and I took him beating in November .After the first drive the keeper told the beaters to put the dogs on a lead.There were 100 of birds on the ride . He told me to work my dog to flush a few .then I had him drop to the  whistle.Only trouble was he was a crocodile .presant springer was a very slow learner he's ok now.Ive had 2 labs in between  good dogs.Thing is with dogs every ones different the more you put in the more you get out.Dipper.

 

could you give me the title of the book please ? i have talked it over with the wife and she is keen on a ESS. I am very capable of training dogs as i have done all my shooting life but never a springer and may need all the help i can get thanks for your help.

                   Best regards Steve.

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20 minutes ago, steveshoots said:

could you give me the title of the book please ? i have talked it over with the wife and she is keen on a ESS. I am very capable of training dogs as i have done all my shooting life but never a springer and may need all the help i can get thanks for your help.

                   Best regards Steve.

If I can find it I have this book somewhere and I will gladly send it to you.

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Recommend Joe Irving "gundogs their learning chain" Joe was a spaniel trainer. Peter moxons book I recall as being "Training the roughshooters dog" .There should be loads second hand online and it is a good book.

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12 hours ago, JDog said:

If I can find it I have this book somewhere and I will gladly send it to you.

well that's very generous of you J dog Thank you.

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5 hours ago, Dave at kelton said:

Recommend Joe Irving "gundogs their learning chain" Joe was a spaniel trainer. Peter moxons book I recall as being "Training the roughshooters dog" .There should be loads second hand online and it is a good book.

Thanks Dave will have a look for it and buy it thanks for your help.

As a follow up I bought it of ebay.

Edited by steveshoots

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If you have trained dogs before go for the ESS Im sure it will turn out the type of dog you want Im sorry hear about your Fox red lab i have one myself use him for Ducks there a Great

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i have a 6 year old female springer,a real giant 37kg when last weighed,and ever so calm,she is my perfect hide dog,and a brillant retriever over and in water.

20170808_113742_1.jpg

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2 hours ago, hawkfanz said:

i have a 6 year old female springer,a real giant 37kg when last weighed,and ever so calm,she is my perfect hide dog,and a brillant retriever over and in water.

20170808_113742_1.jpg

That is bigger than my red setter and he is big at 32kg. Are you sure its not a liver and white Large Munsterlander. ;):lol:

Edited by loriusgarrulus

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On 17/06/2018 at 13:33, steveshoots said:

Thanks Dave will have a look for it and buy it thanks for your help.

As a follow up I bought it of ebay.

Forgot to mention joining the gundog training tips facebook group. If you weed out some patent nonsense there is lots of good advice and somewhere to turn when you have inevitable difficulties. Good luck

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no lori defo ess she was bred near brecon,some ft champs in pedigree.i would love to know if her siblings were this big.

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6 hours ago, Dave at kelton said:

Forgot to mention joining the gundog training tips facebook group. If you weed out some patent nonsense there is lots of good advice and somewhere to turn when you have inevitable difficulties. Good luck

Cheers Dave looking around all the local breeders at the moment as you well know picking a pup that i have had no dealings with at all ie (ESS) is a minefield but i will be getting one 

i'm not being too picky as long as both parents are from a good working background thats all that matters to me ,

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Have a look at Cleulow kennels on the web, I bought my last bitch of him, he had a dog pup left out of some fantastic breeding.

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