12gauge82 Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 6 hours ago, yod dropper said: No. A cultural system whereby debate around some issues were suppressed. A political class who were and are largely unrepresentative of the people pre and post referendum. Significant and powerful people who would not accept the result of the referendum. A significant and vocal part of the electorate who would not accept the result of the referendum. UK politicians briefing against the government in Brussels. Two years spent debating the result of the referendum. Two years spent trying to overturn the result of the referendum. Two years weakening our hand and not ever trying to implement the result of the referendum. The same party 'got us into this mess' and I suspect many of the same voters, people who when they were young voted to join the Common Market but now they are older and wiser voted the leave the EU. Brilliant summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 42 minutes ago, yod dropper said: It is what we voted for. Cameron made it clear, the lead Brexit camp made it clear, what they were saying was consistent with it. May & co. have recently been talking about satisfying both the 52 and the 48, not what we were told would happen and we all know if the vote were reversed we wouldn't have left a bit to keep the leavers happy. They still hold us in contempt. And again, nailed it. You should give May a TV debate, you'd definitely be better than Corbyn 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 41 minutes ago, yod dropper said: It is what we voted for. Cameron made it clear, the lead Brexit camp made it clear, what they were saying was consistent with it. May & co. have recently been talking about satisfying both the 52 and the 48, not what we were told would happen and we all know if the vote were reversed we wouldn't have left a bit to keep the leavers happy. They still hold us in contempt. Exactly. They think we are sheep who will faithfully return to the fold come the next election to vote for more betrayals and broken manifesto promises. Well, I for one won't be voting Tory again despite the spectre of a Corbyn government unless May is ditched and the party radically changes course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 39 minutes ago, TriBsa said: Exactly. They think we are sheep who will faithfully return to the fold come the next election to vote for more betrayals and broken manifesto promises. Well, I for one won't be voting Tory again despite the spectre of a Corbyn government unless May is ditched and the party radically changes course. I feel exactly the same and know many others who also have said the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 About time for all the remoaners in Westminster to get up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 Good post from Mervyn King here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6458827/Mervyn-King-savages-Theresa-Mays-Brexit-deal-branding-humiliating-submission.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danllan Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Eyefor said: A. Self confessed TFF lurker (same Avatar). B. Many! Recognised that. 3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Is that why you're here? No, I was seeking a manual flapper, just looked in at the Brexit section in passing to see how it compares to TFF. I had a pretty long dispute with one fellow (I wasn't the first), who then had another with a Mod and then did leave after being revealed as a bit of a fraud. But, as for the others I disagree with about Brexit on TFF, we still 'like' each other's posts in other threads and topics. Of course I and they care very strongly about the issue, but if you can't take criticism and opposing views, well, you should head back to the nursery. 3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: Firstly - welcome. I am here and one or two other shooting related forums (both USA based), and a horological forum - all under the same 'name'. None under different names. For the topic (as I have stated in other posts), I voted remain, though didn't feel all that strongly about it. Since the referendum, I support carrying through the referendum outcome, so I have swapped camps to leave, because I believe that is democracy - and I'm a democrat (with a small D). I'm sure they have. I have had robust discussions on here with some, but that is the nature of forums. I never intend to give offence or make anything personal, and I have (to date anyway) not taken offence - or had anyone deliberately try to offend me on a personal basis ....... but robust and sensible argument is fine by me. Agreed. Edited December 4, 2018 by Danllan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 Dominic Grieve 👍 Take that Moggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 4 hours ago, oowee said: Dominic Grieve 👍 Take that Moggy Glad you find it amusing. Count yourself lucky were not like France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 12 hours ago, oowee said: Dominic Grieve 👍 Take that Moggy I'm not quite sure what your point is. The prospect of a Corbyn government moves another step closer though. No laughing matter in my opinion. Congratulations Mr Grieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 19 minutes ago, yod dropper said: The prospect of a Corbyn government moves another step closer though. No laughing matter in my opinion. Congratulations Mr Grieve. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 40 minutes ago, yod dropper said: I'm not quite sure what your point is. The prospect of a Corbyn government moves another step closer though. No laughing matter in my opinion. Congratulations Mr Grieve. Certainly no laughing matter but 17m voted for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, oowee said: but 17m voted for it. The vast majority of businesses - on whom many are dependant for our employment and much of our 'national income' greatly fear it. Like it or not, if business suffers (as they believe they will), then the whole country suffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said: The vast majority of businesses - on whom many are dependant for our employment and much of our 'national income' greatly fear it. Like it or not, if business suffers (as they believe they will), then the whole country suffers. ^^^^ true but democracy has spoken for Brexit and we must now go through the process of sorting it out. Hopefully he wont get in but when the country votes for disruptive change who knows where the train will stop. That said I am sure those voting knew what they were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead eye alan Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: The vast majority of businesses - on whom many are dependant for our employment and much of our 'national income' greatly fear it. Like it or not, if business suffers (as they believe they will), then the whole country suffers. In any battle there are casualties, it's usually the lower end of the pecking order that get hurt most, big business will adapt to a hard brexit very quickly when forced into it. At the end of the day (if it ever comes) we will be better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 44 minutes ago, oowee said: I am sure those voting knew what they were doing. They did, just a shame the politicians won't follow through on it. I don't see why it's a good thing that the likes of Mr. Grieve who wish to stop the results of the democratic vote should be lauded. It's all rather ironic given that 2018 being a milestone date for suffrage also sees not only politicians defying democracy but being actively encouraged by the public. Quite astonishing. Definitely no laughing matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, yod dropper said: They did, just a shame the politicians won't follow through on it. I don't see why it's a good thing that the likes of Mr. Grieve who wish to stop the results of the democratic vote should be lauded. It's all rather ironic given that 2018 being a milestone date for suffrage also sees not only politicians defying democracy but being actively encouraged by the public. Quite astonishing. Definitely no laughing matter. I am not laughing. The vote was to leave we are leaving. The future relationship between the EU and the UK was not on the ballot paper. Democracy must be allowed to take it's course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yod dropper Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, oowee said: I am not laughing. The vote was to leave we are leaving. The future relationship between the EU and the UK was not on the ballot paper. Democracy must be allowed to take it's course. We all know it's a very real possibility we won't leave. As I and others say again and again and you still don't seem to take notice of is that David Cameron, architect of the referendum and leader of the remain camp told us a vote to leave was a vote to leave the customs union and the single market. If you wish to be childish, it also didn't say what the future relationship between the UK and the EU would be if we remained in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Looks like our spineless politicians have voted away our best bargaining card (no deal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 And now we've no where to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 All an organised scam to keep us in ! It really does stink to high heaven now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 3 hours ago, yod dropper said: We all know it's a very real possibility we won't leave. As I and others say again and again and you still don't seem to take notice of is that David Cameron, architect of the referendum and leader of the remain camp told us a vote to leave was a vote to leave the customs union and the single market. If you wish to be childish, it also didn't say what the future relationship between the UK and the EU would be if we remained in the EU. Lots of things were said and much of it was untrue. I take no notice of it and like to stick to the facts. The ballot paper did not lie and people voted on the question posed. Voters must make their own decisions on what is in front of them. If they vote for something because they believe that something else may happen as a result then that is a matter for their conscience. We had better leave now I have spent a lot of money on planning for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Anyone read this (sorry if covered in Brexit thread) but when I read this I really thought it was 1 April. This seems to guarantee we will continue to contribute to their slush (sorry pension) fund for ever and a day and no EU representative or employee can ever be prosecuted for any offence!! I suspect this was drafted by the Kinnocks although it does have that slippery queer guy (we can say this now we have LGBT&Q movements can't we??) Mandlesons name against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Liam Fox has voiced his concern that Parliament, the vast majority of which is made up of remainers, are robbing the people of Brexit!...........I think he's right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Liam Fox has voiced his concern that Parliament, the vast majority of which is made up of remainers, are robbing the people of Brexit!...........I think he's right! Thats a bit rich coming from someone reprimanded for serious misconduct. I see he is backing the deal 😞 "Dr Fox's actions clearly constitute a breach of the ministerial code which Dr Fox has already acknowledged. This was a failure of judgment on his part for which he has taken the ultimate responsibility in resigning office." Edited December 5, 2018 by oowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts