Scully Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 On 04/08/2018 at 10:24, Old farrier said: who tests the testers? This...... is what I've often wondered. I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression about my point of view; I'm not against anyone wanting to acquire accreditation for whatever they do, but I am against anyone suggesting that accreditation is a requirement; especially when they can't answer the question of 'what benefits does it have over the current system?' Is there a plethora of unqualified deer shooters causing havoc amongst the deer population or amongst each other? The essentials of safe and competent firearms handling apply equally to air rifles, shotguns, rimfires and centre fires, but for some reason such requirements are only aimed at those wanting to shoot deer. I'm pretty sure that if any organisation decided to create a course followed by certification regarding rimfire rifles,or shotguns ( or air rifles when they eventually require licensing ) then some licensing authorities would then deem it necessary that applicants acquire that BB1 ( bunny bashing 1 ) accreditation prior to grant.....at a cost. There's always a cost, and I strongly believe that one cost on top of another on top of yet another on top of yet another will eventually price out new blood to shooting. It's a slippery slope; and our shooting organisations should be resisting such, rather than introducing qualifications that do nothing to improve an already impeccable safety record but do give licensing authorities yet another stick with which to beat us. You couldn't make it up. DSC1 was obviously such a good money spinner there was introduced a sequel....DSC2! I am dead against, and will resist at all times, any interference from outside sources which have only one agenda in mind, namely to curtail shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 33 minutes ago, Scully said: This...... is what I've often wondered. I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression about my point of view; I'm not against anyone wanting to acquire accreditation for whatever they do, but I am against anyone suggesting that accreditation is a requirement; especially when they can't answer the question of 'what benefits does it have over the current system?' Is there a plethora of unqualified deer shooters causing havoc amongst the deer population or amongst each other? The essentials of safe and competent firearms handling apply equally to air rifles, shotguns, rimfires and centre fires, but for some reason such requirements are only aimed at those wanting to shoot deer. I'm pretty sure that if any organisation decided to create a course followed by certification regarding rimfire rifles,or shotguns ( or air rifles when they eventually require licensing ) then some licensing authorities would then deem it necessary that applicants acquire that BB1 ( bunny bashing 1 ) accreditation prior to grant.....at a cost. There's always a cost, and I strongly believe that one cost on top of another on top of yet another on top of yet another will eventually price out new blood to shooting. It's a slippery slope; and our shooting organisations should be resisting such, rather than introducing qualifications that do nothing to improve an already impeccable safety record but do give licensing authorities yet another stick with which to beat us. You couldn't make it up. DSC1 was obviously such a good money spinner there was introduced a sequel....DSC2! I am dead against, and will resist at all times, any interference from outside sources which have only one agenda in mind, namely to curtail shooting. Totally agree ps1 ? pig rs1 ? Rat gs1 goose ws1?waterfowl ss1 squirrel rs1 rabbit ps1 pigeon ps1 pheasant pa1 partridge fs1 Fox well theres 10 money spinners followed by level 2 then instructor then tester it’s a gold mine for someone is it anyway more dangerous or less skilled to shoot one of these or is it a high value beast that requires a certificate or burocracey gone mad just a thought of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOXHUNTER1 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 I have Level 1 & 2 as always thought this would become more common and have always said the Police will not grant deer on your FAC if you do not have qualifications. Knowledge is always valuable . You need certs for everything these days so don't know why people are so surprised. Why don't those against qualifications stop moaning and just do them , you never know you may enjoy and learn something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Old farrier said: Totally agree ps1 ? pig rs1 ? Rat gs1 goose ws1?waterfowl ss1 squirrel rs1 rabbit ps1 pigeon ps1 pheasant pa1 partridge fs1 Fox well theres 10 money spinners followed by level 2 then instructor then tester it’s a gold mine for someone is it anyway more dangerous or less skilled to shoot one of these or is it a high value beast that requires a certificate or burocracey gone mad just a thought of In a nutshell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wascal Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 If there's money in it , before long you will be able to get "Fake" DSCs on the internet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, FOXHUNTER1 said: I have Level 1 & 2 as always thought this would become more common and have always said the Police will not grant deer on your FAC if you do not have qualifications. Knowledge is always valuable . You need certs for everything these days so don't know why people are so surprised. Why don't those against qualifications stop moaning and just do them , you never know you may enjoy and learn something... This is NOT a personal swipe/dig at yourself But you won't be years of hands on experience as opposed to read books etc then pass any test Driving Bricklaying Welding etc back to Stalking I've personally seen numerous none stalkers pass DSC 1 get a Deer rifle and are clueless. So called leading Stalkers in the Deer world take people on DSC2 stalks and apart from pulling the trigger done everything. I've taken supposed highly qualified ( DSC1-2 and Manger ) Deer Stalking that you'd not let loose shooting rabbit. So eg a land owner/estate wants his Deer controlled his choice is Stalker with DSC1-2 has shot 5 Deer can talks the talk or Stalker with years of experience shot hundreds of Deer but NO DSC1-2 ????? In most cases Mr qualified get the Stalking and the Deer suffer. To end as in many things in life corruption in Stalking is rife and Money talks 7 minutes ago, wascal said: If there's money in it , before long you will be able to get "Fake" DSCs on the internet Unfortunately that's been going on for years FACT Edited August 5, 2018 by 6.5x55SE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 1 hour ago, FOXHUNTER1 said: I have Level 1 & 2 as always thought this would become more common and have always said the Police will not grant deer on your FAC if you do not have qualifications. Knowledge is always valuable . You need certs for everything these days so don't know why people are so surprised. Why don't those against qualifications stop moaning and just do them , you never know you may enjoy and learn something... That’s what I thought however it was boaring badly presented rip off and as with all courses or cpd you can only progress as fast as the worst candidate on the course nothing against learning or getting qualifications but I feel there should be stringent testing for the presenters and the quality should be equal nationally along with standardisation of the licensing criteria why should my county say that I have to get a DSC1 and another county just grant me one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 I went through Gap180 - worth it for the curry alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 3 hours ago, FOXHUNTER1 said: I have Level 1 & 2 as always thought this would become more common and have always said the Police will not grant deer on your FAC if you do not have qualifications. Knowledge is always valuable . You need certs for everything these days so don't know why people are so surprised. Why don't those against qualifications stop moaning and just do them , you never know you may enjoy and learn something... But that’s clearly wrong; the police WILL grant deer on your FAC even if you do not have qualifications. Myself, two mates and my nephew all have deer on our FAC’s, none of us have any qualifications, and although I know many folk who shoot deer I only know one who has DSC1, and that was through choice. I’m only moaning because if people simply acquiesce to licensing whims then they become the norm, and that opens the door for evermore restrictions and obstacles for people to pay for with absolutely no benefit to shooting nor anyone but those administering the courses. It absolutely amazes me that we have so called representational shooting organisations which actively encourage shooters to pay for formal accreditation which has absolutely no benefit over the present system whatsoever. Let’s face it, if our shooting organisations hadn’t developed accreditation courses, the police couldn’t in some cases, suggest or insist, that some have them as prerequisites to grant! Unbelievable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 13 hours ago, FOXHUNTER1 said: I have Level 1 & 2 as always thought this would become more common and have always said the Police will not grant deer on your FAC if you do not have qualifications. Knowledge is always valuable . You need certs for everything these days so don't know why people are so surprised. Why don't those against qualifications stop moaning and just do them , you never know you may enjoy and learn something... I'm thinking about starting a course to qualify people before they can post on forums, there is no real need for it and I expect it will cost about £350 spread over about a week. Once I get enough take up then forums worldwide will suggest/insist people get the qualification before they let them post. Don't understand why anyone should moan about that, just do them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 Not quite the same, though, is it Dekers? Posting on a forum doesn't put a lethal firearm into your hands. The rate of firearms accidents doesn't seem to support additional qualifications, but the chance of wounding a deer or shooting one out of season must be higher without a formal qualification. If I were a landowner looking to grant permission, rather than ask 20 questions on deer ID, seasons etc. and putting them through a shooting test, just having a DSC1 would go a long way towards proving that the individual has some sort of training/assessment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 (edited) Of all the posts of yours I have read over the years Dekers I think you are the least qualified to start a forum qualification course. Edited August 6, 2018 by Redgum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 I think there are two lines of thought on the DMQ qualifications, if you were brought up around shooting/country sports from a young age and had munched through a couple of tonnes of venison before you were ten and spent many days on the hill with the old man with hundreds of contacts/opportunities to stalk, then these qualifications seem like an unnecessary pain. But we have to remember that there are a lot of people taking this up as a hobby with little or no previous experience ( we are in a time of record firearm ownership after all). For the mid 30's chap who has a bit of spare time/cash and would like to take up stalking as a recreational hobby then the DMQ is a start but still not enough. Why is this just relevant to deer ( it shouldn't be) well it seems that this is the growing trend as a recreational hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 I am right behind the sentiment red gum but from what i have seen some of those brought up with 'the country' can have a shocking disrespect for wildlife. Equally those that have learnt later on may be very well tutored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 We shoot over who knows how much land, and we've never met a landowner yet who cares about qualifications or insurance, and there are many who couldn't care less about the legalities of the quarry/vermin they want shooting, nor the season in which its shot. We have to be quite diplomatic at times. Farmers tend to live in the real world, which is often quite black and white to them; very few grey areas. No damage to their property or anything which will cost them, takes priority over everything. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOXHUNTER1 Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 On 05/08/2018 at 22:18, Scully said: But that’s clearly wrong; the police WILL grant deer on your FAC even if you do not have qualifications. Myself, two mates and my nephew all have deer on our FAC’s, none of us have any qualifications, and although I know many folk who shoot deer I only know one who has DSC1, and that was through choice. I know you can get deer on your FAC without DMQ ......I should have worded it better I meant to say I think it will happen in the future .... I know there is no replacement for experience but I have watched many people attempt a gralloch badly , then have showed them how I do it and they were all impressed and realised that training is always welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, FOXHUNTER1 said: I know you can get deer on your FAC without DMQ ......I should have worded it better I meant to say I think it will happen in the future .... I know there is no replacement for experience but I have watched many people attempt a gralloch badly , then have showed them how I do it and they were all impressed and realised that training is always welcome. Fair enough, and I can acknowledge that although there is a right and a wrong way to do everything, there is still a difference between being instructed in the correct method from someone with experience, and the same through formal training which entails a fee and a certificate, but which also inadvertently results in aficionados using them as a method with which to hamper applicants for no obvious benefits over the present system. There is absolutely no logic in singling out deer for special attention over any other shooting discipline, and the only reason it is singled out is because the other shooting disciplines aren’t catered for by formal qualification training......but it’s only a matter of time. If shooters and their representative bodies are good at one thing, it’s shooting themselves in the foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 As above. Why single deer out,surely all creatures should be afforded the same respect. Many stalkers get way too emotive because that is their favoured form of fieldsports but although it's my favourite I don't tend to put one creatures on a higher plain than others. I'll leave that to the antis who think it's ok to kill a rat in their space but not ok for a deer/fox/rabbit to be killed in someone else's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 9 hours ago, sako751sg said: As above. Why single deer out,surely all creatures should be afforded the same respect. Many stalkers get way too emotive because that is their favoured form of fieldsports but although it's my favourite I don't tend to put one creatures on a higher plain than others. I'll leave that to the antis who think it's ok to kill a rat in their space but not ok for a deer/fox/rabbit to be killed in someone else's. All live quarry should be respected in the same way, why single out deer? Well we tend to eat rather more deer than foxes and the DSC1 covers a fair bit on food hygiene, with a hunter number you can sell the venison back into the food chain so maybe this is the main reason but you could say why don't we need a food hygiene license for rabbits, pigeons and pheasants or maybe legally you do ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 13 hours ago, Redgum said: All live quarry should be respected in the same way, why single out deer? Well we tend to eat rather more deer than foxes and the DSC1 covers a fair bit on food hygiene, with a hunter number you can sell the venison back into the food chain so maybe this is the main reason but you could say why don't we need a food hygiene license for rabbits, pigeons and pheasants or maybe legally you do ? Food Hygiene element is also available as a completely separate course, so you don't need a DSC to put food in the Food Chain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 Big money spinner just because you got a cert to say you done the course makes you a competent stalker dont think so you pass your test then dont go stalking for two years dont tell me you remember everything you learned on the test. Next thing will be you got to have so many stalks in one season to keep your Deer rifle big money spinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted August 12, 2018 Report Share Posted August 12, 2018 On 09/08/2018 at 09:42, Rim Fire said: Big money spinner just because you got a cert to say you done the course makes you a competent stalker dont think so you pass your test then dont go stalking for two years dont tell me you remember everything you learned on the test. Next thing will be you got to have so many stalks in one season to keep your Deer rifle big money spinner Bit like the driving test then, but at the moment the DSC's aren't law, well at the moment anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Redgum said: Bit like the driving test then, but at the moment the DSC's aren't law, well at the moment anyway That is true my mates wife passed her test 10 yrs ago and never been behind the wheel since but she got a full driving licence she wont be borrowing my car Edited August 13, 2018 by Rim Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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