Is reloading cost effective

[amh1992]

I'm considering getting into making my own cartridges. but I have been pricing it up and I'm not sure if it cost effective. has anyone any tips on where to buy the equipment IE wads powder and shot. 

or any tips on making more cost effective. 

I'm in Northern Ireland  but travel by boat to mainland once a month or so. 

[figgy]

Depends on what your looking to load for, If its for a 12 bore clay loads or standard game loads then no it will cost you more unless you can make your own shot.

Its the other gauges where savings can be made.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Welcome to Pigeon Watch.

[Diss4111]

32 minutes ago, figgy said:

Depends on what your looking to load for, If its for a 12 bore clay loads or standard game loads then no it will cost you more unless you can make your own shot.

Its the other gauges where savings can be made.

If you shoot the cheapest available then the above is correct, however you can load a premium cartridge for a lot less. I used to shoot Express World Cup, I started reloading when these broke £200 a 1000. 

I do make my own shot but on the occasions when I haven't been able to get lead I have bought shot and I can load a cartridge to match World Cup for less than £200 per 1000.

[Guest cookoff013]

making shells is a pain in the harris.

it i rewarding but you will never see the savings of old.

i hate to say it, but buy factory shells, i now infrequently reload. just to have a play.

for me it justifies it, just for that, and thats not as frequent now. 

if you wanted to reload for gooses and duckky-wuckkies then its really rewarding.

[dipper]

1 hour ago, Diss4111 said:

If you shoot the cheapest available then the above is correct, however you can load a premium cartridge for a lot less. I used to shoot Express World Cup, I started reloading when these broke £200 a 1000. 

I do make my own shot but on the occasions when I haven't been able to get lead I have bought shot and I can load a cartridge to match World Cup for less than £200 per 1000.

Without making your own shot you can make cartridges for less than £200 .The eqiverlent of World Cup You must be able to buy your components a lot cheaper than most of us can.Can you let us know what your paying for them?

[Vince Green]

It depends what value you place on your time, time is the invisible cost to factor in.

I would liken it very much to growing your own vegetables. Probably dearer than buying them at the end of the day but immensely satisfying

[Salopian]

I load Black powder for a couple of hammer guns I have , it saves me a fortune .

12 bore clay loads are not economical to load but I think everything else is , my time is free.

[Diss4111]

16 hours ago, dipper said:

Without making your own shot you can make cartridges for less than £200 .The eqiverlent of World Cup You must be able to buy your components a lot cheaper than most of us can.Can you let us know what your paying for them?

I buy from Folkestone Engineering Supplies for most items and others come from my local RFD

[pinfireman]

Reloading 12g , you can only make a good saving if you make your own shot, and buy wads in large quantities......a shotmaker comes in around £500, but there are guys on here who can advise you on how to build your own for less than a third of that.............Reloading the other gauges, you can save quite a bit, for instance you can load 3"  .410 cartridges for around £130 per thousand, not bad when todays price is around £320 per 1,000 ! Big saving on 28g  and 10g.  Smaller saving on 20g. But great satisfaction when  breaking the clay, or downing the bird, with your own shells!

[mrpip]

Has anyone experience ie costing of loading steel cartridges, currently paying £240 per 1000 Hull 32 gram 5,s cheapest available around me, not taking time into consideration. 

[figgy]

32G steel carts are not worth loading due the cost of components.  I just buy what i need in that size and only reload for the 3" 36g in BB or BBB because i cant buy them.

[Guest cookoff013]

11 hours ago, mrpip said:

Has anyone experience ie costing of loading steel cartridges, currently paying £240 per 1000 Hull 32 gram 5,s cheapest available around me, not taking time into consideration. 

most reloaders can skimp on shot weight, this in turn can reduce the powder costs right down because faster / less weight of powder is used. you can easily reload 25g #4 steel and save money. and still get 1400fps. i crunch some numbers all the time. for the lead 25g is £92 and steel £75 per 1000 (thats shot weight only ) primers are 3p, powder would be 5-7p, wad would be expensive, but i think these reloads hover at 180-220/k depending......

hardly worth it. but your reload will be faster, lighter, the pattern will be "different". 

if you were to try and get the same economics a a big manufacturer you  will go crazy, there margins are slim and they work them hard.

[figgy]

I think the biggest obstacles for reloaders is either postage for european components or all the sellers importers need to make their bit so by time it gets to the uk for us to buy the price we pay will have three or four companies profits on. 

The Cartridge makers buy direct in huge quantities so save big compared to us. You would think that wads and cases are light but bulky to transport, that it would be cheaper to produce them in the UK from granular plastic polymers produced in the UK.

Edited October 18, 2018 by figgy

[mrpip]

6 hours ago, cookoff013 said:

most reloaders can skimp on shot weight, this in turn can reduce the powder costs right down because faster / less weight of powder is used. you can easily reload 25g #4 steel and save money. and still get 1400fps. i crunch some numbers all the time. for the lead 25g is £92 and steel £75 per 1000 (thats shot weight only ) primers are 3p, powder would be 5-7p, wad would be expensive, but i think these reloads hover at 180-220/k depending......

hardly worth it. but your reload will be faster, lighter, the pattern will be "different". 

if you were to try and get the same economics a a big manufacturer you  will go crazy, there margins are slim and they work them hard.

Cheers for that, was just a thought. Seems like every 6 months they put cartridges up in price, at present he knocks me off a few quid for being a regular customer and buying by the 1000, heard some good excuses in the past for price rises, war in Afghanistan, Chinese buying all lead and steel, and now it's brexit 😃

[lksopener]

To be honest you can make a saving if you come across supplies for the right price, even 12 gauge. 

 

Lets not forget some of the premium game loads are over £300 now, some pushing £400. 

 

 

[pinfireman]

8 hours ago, figgy said:

I think the biggest obstacles for reloaders is either postage for european components or all the sellers importers need to make their bit so by time it gets to the uk for us to buy the price we pay will have three or four companies profits on. 

The Cartridge makers buy direct in huge quantities so save big compared to us. You would think that wads and cases are light but bulky to transport, that it would be cheaper to produce them in the UK from granular plastic polymers produced in the UK.

We used to produce one of the best wads going..............Plaswads! And the guy who did it made it pay................they were cheaper than  the few others around at the time (mostly American) and so good that Claybuster now make one that is almost an exact copy! As for cases, there is no reason why they could not be made here, but the Italians have a stranglehold on the market,  and are likely to fight to keep it.............

[pinfireman]

3 hours ago, mrpip said:

Cheers for that, was just a thought. Seems like every 6 months they put cartridges up in price, at present he knocks me off a few quid for being a regular customer and buying by the 1000, heard some good excuses in the past for price rises, war in Afghanistan, Chinese buying all lead and steel, and now it's brexit 😃

It,s NOT Brexit!  Powder costs have been stable for a while now, so have primers and wads.  Steel has had a very small increase per ton (hardly worth mentioning), and lead the same. Lead goes up and down, but when it,s down, cartridge prices do not go down, do they. I think we have to possibly look at indirect costs, like energy, wages etc.....

The manufacturers margins may be "slim".....but it,s amazing, then, how they stay in business? 

1 hour ago, lksopener said:

To be honest you can make a saving if you come across supplies for the right price, even 12 gauge. 

 

Lets not forget some of the premium game loads are over £300 now, some pushing £400. 

 

 

and .410 loads are at a stupid price!

[Saltings]

if loading 12g 1oz for clay busting no real saving if loading heavier loads for game /vermin in plastic or fibre a small saving if loading non toxic a good saving and if any gauge other than 12b a substantial saving also you can tailor your load to what you want to hunt without a trip to the gun shop if you drop your own shot you can save a few more £ but more time consuming cleaning drying tumbling with graphite etc if any zinc in the lead the batch is no good as it will not drip it will run like water  however home loading its nice pastime beats the tv  

[Fen tiger]

Primers your tied the same with powder old stocks individual have keep costs down but to answer the thread question your tied to primer powder price.

Wads bulk buying a possibility saves money and you could cut your own fibre and stamp card seals cut undershot or nitro type cards , but all take time and some investment in equipment or ingenuity at least to produce such fibre wading components. 

  Shot you can make shoemakers that work and you do not need to make them works of art either but method to ingotise your scrap lead and working out a routine to maintain the melt temperature by say pree heating ingots before adding them to the melt its all involving TIME .

Steel ? you can save here by buying S7 blasting shot from abrasive suppliers this comes in at roughly 2.8mm in size and is close enough to the 90 to 105 brinel hardness at generally 115 brinel to be of use to the shotgunner. 

At under £50 inc vat for 28kgs there is some savings to be had using steel blasting beads and they are uniform in size and shape but do vary depending on your supplier sometimes.

Wads for steel again you must buy and bulk buy save the cash that way, to make your own card cups would work but i have no idea how you could practically make card cups but would love to know if anyone as any insight into this.

Wildfowling and small gauge loads can save money but not always, traditionaly 10ga has been cheaper to reload but gamebore rino ammo  at around £11 a box of ten has the 10ga market cornered and any saving if any no matter how frugal you try to be will be slight very slight.

Performance and availability . Well here reloading wins what you want you produce with reloads Exactly. Factory you get what your given and pay the price, its up to the individuals needs and expectations but from a financial standpoint in todays Britain you will struggle to save much cash.

[motty]

1 hour ago, Fen tiger said:

Primers your tied the same with powder old stocks individual have keep costs down but to answer the thread question your tied to primer powder price.

Wads bulk buying a possibility saves money and you could cut your own fibre and stamp card seals cut undershot or nitro type cards , but all take time and some investment in equipment or ingenuity at least to produce such fibre wading components. 

  Shot you can make shoemakers that work and you do not need to make them works of art either but method to ingotise your scrap lead and working out a routine to maintain the melt temperature by say pree heating ingots before adding them to the melt its all involving TIME .

Steel ? you can save here by buying S7 blasting shot from abrasive suppliers this comes in at roughly 2.8mm in size and is close enough to the 90 to 105 brinel hardness at generally 115 brinel to be of use to the shotgunner. 

At under £50 inc vat for 28kgs there is some savings to be had using steel blasting beads and they are uniform in size and shape but do vary depending on your supplier sometimes.

Wads for steel again you must buy and bulk buy save the cash that way, to make your own card cups would work but i have no idea how you could practically make card cups but would love to know if anyone as any insight into this.

Wildfowling and small gauge loads can save money but not always, traditionaly 10ga has been cheaper to reload but gamebore rino ammo  at around £11 a box of ten has the 10ga market cornered and any saving if any no matter how frugal you try to be will be slight very slight.

Performance and availability . Well here reloading wins what you want you produce with reloads Exactly. Factory you get what your given and pay the price, its up to the individuals needs and expectations but from a financial standpoint in todays Britain you will struggle to save much cash.

I can load shells for the 10 with considerable savings compared to Gamebore Rhino.

[Stonepark]

On 18/10/2018 at 18:26, pinfireman said:

 

The manufacturers margins may be "slim".....but it,s amazing, then, how they stay in business? 

and .410 loads are at a stupid price!

 

Manufacturers make a box of cartridges for about £2.50, the remainder if the cost to us shooters of £7.50 a box is margin between manufacturers and shops with most of it i believe sitting with manufacturer.

 

If you doubt this you only have to consider is why these companies are all held privately (and off shore) with limited accounting.

 

There is a  price fixing racket going on with some reloading supplies, especially powder which the large cartridge companies get in for £15/kg (Vectan A1 for instance), which is also available online in the US for $38/£30/kg in 500g tubs without special offers or hazmat delivery and yet it costs us £76/kg for the same 500g tubs also without delivery.

 

lead is bought in at £1.50/kg or thereabouts and adding antimony/tin, heating up and dropping, cost to manufactuer of shot is circa £1.80 a kg at most. We pay at least £3.50 a kg for shot which is not  unreasonable margin and is reflected in other commercial products elsewhere.

Whilst i accept reasonable margins, when we are being overcharged for some components we really do need to complain to the likes of the office of fair trading.

 

I make my 410 loads with all new shop bought components for about £180 and they are 21g loads.

£300 for 18g loads is a bit steep.

 

[Vince Green]

On ‎18‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 18:21, pinfireman said:

We used to produce one of the best wads going..............Plaswads! And the guy who did it made it pay................they were cheaper than  the few others around at the time (mostly American) and so good that Claybuster now make one that is almost an exact copy! As for cases, there is no reason why they could not be made here, but the Italians have a stranglehold on the market,  and are likely to fight to keep it.............

Certainly plaswads were the best available, what happened to them?

[Fen tiger]

1 hour ago, motty said:

I can load shells for the 10 with considerable savings compared to Gamebore Rhino.

How much is considerable ?  If you look at a similar load in a chedite case aliant powder and equal shot charge its going to be close to the rhinos on price, in going on buying everything in Now not using components stockpiled for sometime, in that case i could load for half the rhino 10 price. at around £1 a shot, look at prices  powder £40+ a pound (roughly 170 loads ) for aliant propelant then cases wads and shot primer the rhinos are quite close on price, you would have to change for cheaper powder or buy big amounts to build in any discount into the equation to mean much on hard cash.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Fen tiger

[pinfireman]

36 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Certainly plaswads were the best available, what happened to them?

The guy who made them, years ago, in Nottinghma retired, and the machinery etc was sold, and I believe someone in Norfolk owns it!  Every year someone  starts the rumour going that he is going to start production, but I would not bet on it. I wish someone in the UK would set up a plant to produce them,  I,d support them! I still have around 3,000 of them, both Mk3 and Mk4.

On 18/10/2018 at 23:22, Saltings said:

if loading 12g 1oz for clay busting no real saving if loading heavier loads for game /vermin in plastic or fibre a small saving if loading non toxic a good saving and if any gauge other than 12b a substantial saving also you can tailor your load to what you want to hunt without a trip to the gun shop if you drop your own shot you can save a few more £ but more time consuming cleaning drying tumbling with graphite etc if any zinc in the lead the batch is no good as it will not drip it will run like water  however home loading its nice pastime beats the tv  

It certainly does!