Mr Packham says he's never been opposed to shooting.

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, old'un said:

I do not disagree with the above, as said you are preaching to the converted, but the point you have not addressed is posting pictures of stuff we have killed.

YOMV my take on posting pictures is that obviously any individual picture as the potential to shock or infuriate Antis, but they are infuriated anyway and in this world the WWW.com is full to bursting of pictures.  Keep picture decent as in say that crow that copped for the 36 gram of  fully choked 5s at 10ft and suffered a humane  instant death but a bloody carcase needs laying under its equally humanely despatched yet tidy looking repeat offender counterparts.

We are not children and should just be sensible about what we post, its not about numbers or even the aforesaid blood its about showing we are here very active very efficient very professional and " hey  this is what we do on our days  off we protect and conserve  how about you".  Sure you are not going to please everybody, but even the most peed off Anti will struggle to turn a pile of dead crows into a change in government policy, or even be able to constructively use it in any such case.

Going on the old any publicity is good publicity we are needing to get noticed get attention , that way we have a chance to reach the less committed in society  the not sure and the dont knows, we wont change the packhams avereys etc, but the country is not all like them,  that is just an illusion because these few are in the media big time and all the time, we need to emulate this and just like the crowd funding aspect of WJ we need to  coppy this and make it our own.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2019 by lancer425

[old'un]

2 hours ago, lancer425 said:

YOMV my take on posting pictures is that obviously any individual picture as the potential to shock or infuriate Antis, but they are infuriated anyway and in this world the WWW.com is full to bursting of pictures.  Keep picture decent as in say that crow that copped for the 36 gram of  fully choked 5s at 10ft and suffered a humane  instant death but a bloody carcase needs laying under its equally humanely despatched yet tidy looking repeat offender counterparts.

We are not children and should just be sensible about what we post, its not about numbers or even the aforesaid blood its about showing we are here very active very efficient very professional and " hey  this is what we do on our days  off we protect and conserve  how about you".  Sure you are not going to please everybody, but even the most peed off Anti will struggle to turn a pile of dead crows into a change in government policy, or even be able to constructively use it in any such case.

Going on the old any publicity is good publicity we are needing to get noticed get attention , that way we have a chance to reach the less committed in society  the not sure and the dont knows, we wont change the packhams avereys etc, but the country is not all like them,  that is just an illusion because these few are in the media big time and all the time, we need to emulate this and just like the crowd funding aspect of WJ we need to  coppy this and make it our own.

 

 

So why post it?

[lancer425]

39 minutes ago, old'un said:

So why post it?

Why NOT we need to just use common sense thats all , cowering away in fear of the wholesome activities we do is hardly the way of a healthy community.

 We are law abiding right thinking individuals, what WJ spout offends us  but they do not care about that, If we post pictures with reservation as to graphic gore out of primarily total respect for our quarry and befitting our real and genuine  status as true sportsmen and women.  We have In my opinion comited no wrong YOMV. I do not see that posting pictures of Dead quary will change anything, stoping posting from today wont stop WJ and others for a second, but we need to use common sense as outlined.

[wymberley]

4 hours ago, lancer425 said:

In fairness to BASC they have been on the education van for decades now the late 80s early 90s competence certificates the NSCC on deer ok naive and basic in today’s scheme of things but it was what was needed then and did see many go out with a better knowledge base than just the pamphlet the police handed out with the old white card certificates back then.

Some aspects and sectors  of the shooting community are at present not seeing quite the standard  of education required to full fill the needs of all aspects of their activity.  The clear ignorance surrounding the 40 YEAR OLD  type general licence is a recent evidence of this .

  BASC more than up to the task of info and advice and this aspect alone is a good reason to join BASC without taking anything else into account.

 And before we all start jumping up and down proclaiming we " BEEN DOING THIS YEARS I CAN TELL THEM A THING OR TWO" .   Perhaps but we all can learn more, i have my own opinion on certain training i have undertaken over the years, this is not for debate here, but what i will say is harping back to the early  days of DSC level 1 i will admit despite my 25 years experience before i took that test i did learn from it and do think it was worthwile, and in discussion with others after the group as a whole felt they benefited from it.

Other countries have more involved hunter education encompassing a brad range of hunting activities environments and weaponry involved. We can easily take aspects of such education from abroad and use them here tailored to fit the uks requirements.

BASC have experts on most aspects of shooting be that hunting right to the funding  financing project advice, and they have representatives who will if required visit certainly wildfowling clubs, and i imagine other clubs  and offer advice where needed.   I am sure we can come up with many ideas on education to help compliment our work in the countryside to the benefit of everything and everybody.  And if we do i think it can only add to our already considerable repertoire when we are combating  the pseudo conservationist groups like WJ etc. 

  Not quite sure what you mean by the, "education van". If you mean a small vehicle, then, yep that's all it is whereas in the time a little earlier than you suggested, by comparison it would have been a 40 ton five axled  truck. Should you mean a group of people leading from the front, then with the relatively shallow content currently on offer,  said van will suffice. Neither of these points can be attributed to a BASC failure. We hear a lot about the need to support our organisations. Fine, makes sense, but there's need to define 'support'. Joining and paying our subs? No, that's nothing more than a rite of passage. Having a bunch of the "I can tell them a thing or two" chaps turning up to give a couple of lectures over a few weeks without any payment as was a regular occurrence some 40 odd years ago is more like it. It is currently unlikely that that will happen on such a basis as render a course a viable proposition. Consequently, any course of any depth will incur costs which will mean that potential students will not wish to pay such a fee. Consequently, what we have is similar to the NAAFI's supply of tobacco  - the Three  Nuns - none yesterday, none today and none tomorrow. We didn't/don't need to take aspects from any other country's education programme as we were/ are(?) perfectly capable of doing our own without external input - incidentally, this also applied to a procedure for checking shotgun choke - which was proven by the fact that FACE stated that the BASC offering that I have in mind was a match for anything on the Continent.

 

 

 

[lancer425]

57 minutes ago, wymberley said:

  Not quite sure what you mean by the, "education van". If you mean a small vehicle, then, yep that's all it is whereas in the time a little earlier than you suggested, by comparison it would have been a 40 ton five axled  truck. Should you mean a group of people leading from the front, then with the relatively shallow content currently on offer,  said van will suffice. Neither of these points can be attributed to a BASC failure. We hear a lot about the need to support our organisations. Fine, makes sense, but there's need to define 'support'. Joining and paying our subs? No, that's nothing more than a rite of passage. Having a bunch of the "I can tell them a thing or two" chaps turning up to give a couple of lectures over a few weeks without any payment as was a regular occurrence some 40 odd years ago is more like it. It is currently unlikely that that will happen on such a basis as render a course a viable proposition. Consequently, any course of any depth will incur costs which will mean that potential students will not wish to pay such a fee. Consequently, what we have is similar to the NAAFI's supply of tobacco  - the Three  Nuns - none yesterday, none today and none tomorrow. We didn't/don't need to take aspects from any other country's education programme as we were/ are(?) perfectly capable of doing our own without external input - incidentally, this also applied to a procedure for checking shotgun choke - which was proven by the fact that FACE stated that the BASC offering that I have in mind was a match for anything on the Continent.

 

 

 

"Not quite sure what you mean by the, "education van".?

Seeing value in.  jumping on the band wagon. van, on a track of. Hunter education as in possibly future requirement or of value in some other way to shooters could be perhaps  Heath and safety and or OTHER! . Education.

Suport the orgs. ? Obviously subscription this funds the organisation the benefits vary from org to org. But all orgs websites websites offer advice and info on what is on offer for your subscription.

 In the case of BASC it is love it or loathe it the biggest shooting org we currently have on  these islands it is the biggest voice we have available , if that makes a blind bit of difference is a moot point and YOMV but i happen to have had many dealings with BASC on consents,  land issues and other legal advice over the years and i can say here and now i appreciate what they have done so far when we asked them for help, and they have up to now more than earned respect as an organisation..

If they ask for input surveys or whatever try and help if you can.

Promote the organisation and do whatever you can to help if and as required to.

Attend functions events and meeting where you practically can and above all try and at least show restraint in belittling an organisation on social media or forums like this where it can be read by all pro and anti shooting, much of the critisisum is unfounded again YOMV, but if you have a complaint why not ask the organisation whichever organisation thats involved to explain WHY X Happened or didnt happen ETC.   I think Organisation bashing as become a popular blood sport amongst some in our community and this by its very nature is unhelpful. again my view and YOMV.

I think we should be proud of what all the shooting organisations have done on the GLs issues so far, they are in largely a spectator view at the moment but i feel they did all they could and we owe them respect for this.  This is my view as i have said multiple times before.

 

•  

[wymberley]

Ah, meetings engineers.

I'm out.

[redial]

On 21/05/2019 at 18:31, mick miller said:

Honestly, just stop posting pictures online of dead stuff. It's really that simple. Otherwise you just provide video and photographic 'nasties' for these people to use [scroll down, see the list of usual suspects].

http://vegfestexpress.co.uk/tabs/blog/2015/07/for-fox-sake-david-cameron

We're our own worst enemy when it comes to this. At least UK Varminting has a rule that you cannot post pictures of dead stuff, that's a sound starting point.

 

 

Couldn't agree more.

I have thought for sometime posting photos, particularly the gory type are a own goal.

[Walker570]

I was in my local store this morning and the owner asked me about the bird culling thing. He had a friend who had a problem with feral pigeons messing all over his workshop. Could he shoot them.  I said he had to jump through all the hoops etc etc etc.  He then asked if I was still sorting squirrels and I said I was and had 14 -15 in the last seven days.  There where other people, just ordinary folk in ear shot and I did not lower my voice.  I told it as it was and finished by suggesting all that one sees on such as Countryfile was not always the full truth.

He agreed with me wholeheartedly and I was a bit amazed at a number of folk in their nodding their heads.   

No , I disagree with hiding what we enjoy doing but it is a show of respect when you take well arranged photos of your quarry.  I used to do this for clients and then often....particularly Scandinavian hunters who took their own shots of bullet exits etc etc.

[old man]

5 hours ago, Walker570 said:

 

He agreed with me wholeheartedly and I was a bit amazed at a number of folk in their nodding their heads.   

 

A local quirk I believe?

[Walker570]

Well, it was a country village store.

14 minutes ago, old man said:

A local quirk I believe?

 

[Ratlegs]

Hi just seen on youtube

"mama duck fight crows attacking baby ducklings"

4 shot would be good

 

[greylag]

I see in the latest addition of BBC countryside magazine , Chris Packham has been given another free run at the shooting community.Another unchallenged piece .The BBC would not think about giving a representative from one of the countryside organisations such an open forum.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, greylag said:

I see in the latest addition of BBC countryside magazine , Chris Packham has been given another free run at the shooting community.Another unchallenged piece .The BBC would not think about giving a representative from one of the countryside organisations such an open forum.

Do you intend to write to them to ask if they will give a shooting organisation the opportunity to respond? 

[clay shooter]

On 21 May 2019 at 19:59, ShootingEgg said:

Why should we hide it.. Why should I not show the buck or doe or fox or pigeon. I go out stalking, I enjoy the whole experience and the photo is the memory of the whole day. I dont go out and enjoy pulling the trigger as much as I do seeing what I see. 

Just because someone doesn't agree with it doesn't mean I should hide it 

 

Ageed the bird watchers mr Packham incl shows dead fledglings in the nesr and shows the springwatch viewers the result on tv..some pigeon shooters do same ..HRH at Sandringham show themselves at Xmas shooting pheasant..so ...big deal the public know it happens ..they think us rich only shoot..lots of working class poor paid do too..so the image is wrong here..perhaps a NEW thread could be added to ask what jobs we do??? I think you will find a good variety of retired..low paid..oap..and young uns..

[ShootingEgg]

30 minutes ago, Scully said:

Do you intend to write to them to ask if they will give a shooting organisation the opportunity to respond? 

I have.. 

See below, not the best at these things but hope I made sense.. 

I have just seen the most recent publication of your countryside magazine, again Chris Packham is using his position as a contractor to you as a way of pedeling his own agenda and protectionist views. I my self shoot, from clay pigeon through to game. This includes the management and control of certain species of bird. Contrary to Mr Packhams views I do not go out for "fun". Yes I enjoy shooting, I am out in the countryside seeing all sorts of things, from sheep lambing in the fields in front of me, BOP hunting, deer rutting, all things I enjoy seeing. I also manage the land, planting new trees, hedge rows, install duck nesting tubes to allow them safe nesting sites. On the other side of this there is predator and pest species control. This is a vital aspect of life in the countryside, yet you seem to only ever publish Mr Packhams Anti agenda. Would you invite one of the countryside organisations to share their side of this debate?  I am sure the countryside alliance, BASC, NGO, GWCT would all be willing to if giving the opportunity.

I look forward to hearing your reason for allowing Mr Packham to use the BBC as a platform to miss inform the thousands of your readers and viewers. 

Kind Regards

[clay shooter]

1 hour ago, greylag said:

I see in the latest addition of BBC countryside magazine , Chris Packham has been given another free run at the shooting community.Another unchallenged piece .The BBC would not think about giving a representative from one of the countryside organisations such an open forum.

140.000 petition has been sent to bbc reuesting his removal..the names are increasing ..watch devmts

 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

I have.. 

See below, not the best at these things but hope I made sense.. 

I have just seen the most recent publication of your countryside magazine, again Chris Packham is using his position as a contractor to you as a way of pedeling his own agenda and protectionist views. I my self shoot, from clay pigeon through to game. This includes the management and control of certain species of bird. Contrary to Mr Packhams views I do not go out for "fun". Yes I enjoy shooting, I am out in the countryside seeing all sorts of things, from sheep lambing in the fields in front of me, BOP hunting, deer rutting, all things I enjoy seeing. I also manage the land, planting new trees, hedge rows, install duck nesting tubes to allow them safe nesting sites. On the other side of this there is predator and pest species control. This is a vital aspect of life in the countryside, yet you seem to only ever publish Mr Packhams Anti agenda. Would you invite one of the countryside organisations to share their side of this debate?  I am sure the countryside alliance, BASC, NGO, GWCT would all be willing to if giving the opportunity.

I look forward to hearing your reason for allowing Mr Packham to use the BBC as a platform to miss inform the thousands of your readers and viewers. 

Kind Regards

Well done. 👍

[greylag]

Yes have replied ,and also intend to ask the organisations to respond too.

[panoma1]

22 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

I have.. 

See below, not the best at these things but hope I made sense.. 

I have just seen the most recent publication of your countryside magazine, again Chris Packham is using his position as a contractor to you as a way of pedeling his own agenda and protectionist views. I my self shoot, from clay pigeon through to game. This includes the management and control of certain species of bird. Contrary to Mr Packhams views I do not go out for "fun". Yes I enjoy shooting, I am out in the countryside seeing all sorts of things, from sheep lambing in the fields in front of me, BOP hunting, deer rutting, all things I enjoy seeing. I also manage the land, planting new trees, hedge rows, install duck nesting tubes to allow them safe nesting sites. On the other side of this there is predator and pest species control. This is a vital aspect of life in the countryside, yet you seem to only ever publish Mr Packhams Anti agenda. Would you invite one of the countryside organisations to share their side of this debate?  I am sure the countryside alliance, BASC, NGO, GWCT would all be willing to if giving the opportunity.

I look forward to hearing your reason for allowing Mr Packham to use the BBC as a platform to miss inform the thousands of your readers and viewers. 

Kind Regards

👍

[ShootingEgg]

On 08/06/2019 at 19:27, Scully said:

Well done. 👍

As yet no reply.. Might have to resend.