islandgun Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) Just read this and found it fascinating.. Not food for racist's but a explanation about how these things happen and why, for me the only answer is take away the demand for heroin [easier said than done] The articles were written by a Pakistani journalist. It would be interesting if it could be debated without sliding into a slagging match.. Mods please remove if deemed too contentious https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/595fH2sGQh/How_did_my_hometown_become_a_violent_crime_hotspot Edited June 20, 2019 by islandgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 hello, you do not have to be racist to understand what has happened to our country in the last 60 years, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Interesting read and raises many points. Easy to see how reporting of crime by a particular group can lead that group to focus on the reporting and not the crimes. There seems to be, in some areas, more concern that a section of society, in this case young Pakistani men, are being singled out and blamed for a rise in crime when in fact the reason it seems that way is that it's true, that group is the biggest percentage. The same story is true in lots of other places with London being a prime example. The drug culture of Britain is huge and will inevitably cause disputes amongst users and amongst dealers. They are clearly the type of people who, when faced with those situations will have no qualms about picking up a knife or increasingly a gun to resolve their problems. I don't know what the answer is. Jails Are full of drugs and an easy life for most. Jobs are scarce and times are hard and there doesn't seem to be a culture of "work harder to get what you need" in fact it's more "do whatever you can to make easy money". Whether that's the same the world over or more emphasised in Britain I do not know but I can see that in just one generation my in my home town my son will be growing up in a very different society to the one that I grew up in. Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted June 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) exactly Edd... It is the mindset of the importance of providing for your family and the lack of other paid opportunities coupled with no thought for the victims.. it certainly will not go away.. perhaps its time to take drugs off the streets and legalise Edited June 20, 2019 by islandgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) I believe this story exactly mirrors what is happening in Luton Edited June 20, 2019 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 We watched a programme a few nights back which was about girls, sugar daddies and huge sums of "maintenance" being exchanged for sex, not difficult to believe and for the most part the girls seemed to be participating of their own free will, my own immediate thoughts weren't to apportion blame but wonder where we were heading as societies when our younger generation and students were having to sell themselves to pay their exorbitant rents. Anyway during the film we were shown how one of the girls in America had been tricked into sleeping with a chap called Agha Khan (I think) who'd perfected the means of pretending to pay them via PayPal, Agha Khan kept calling girls and Agha Khan had multiple victims, Agha Khan was difficult to track down and when they spoke to Agha Khan on the phone he sounded native 😯 and Agha Khan denied the charges, they never actually showed us Agha Khan but Agha Khan was indicative of a growing problem anyway. Now personally speaking I'd be reluctant to steal a kiss from most of these girls and a pack of wild horses wouldn't get me to actually perform with one but IF I was in the market for an expensive night in with a Sienna Miller lookalike, the chances of me introducing myself as Steve Zoli are pretty damn high. Do I disbelieve the article, of course not, do I believe that Pakistani men are TRULY overrepresented in the entire drug world infrastructure, again of course not, it may well be that the real money is being made by people whose racial demographics would make perfect sense although not the perfect story but which remain largely unseen. It's the nature of things that some are only too willing to concentrate on stories that depict people they dislike as the bad guys whilst turning a complete blind eye to bad things done by bad natives, what I mean by that is that nobody here is ever going to post about a subject where the majority of wrongdoers are natives. Many's the times I've waited with bated breath for "obviously" tasty events being discussed here when the perpetrators weren't foreign but of course it almost never happens and when it does the racial context is (rightly) NEVER mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 As a lot of poppies are grown in Pakistan for the drugs trade its not that difficult to make the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 53 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, you do not have to be racist to understand what has happened to our country in the last 60 years, Please do expand on that as I am not sure what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, Vince Green said: As a lot of poppies are grown in Pakistan for the drugs trade its not that difficult to make the link. Then it should be the Afghans we should be watching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, henry d said: Please do expand on that as I am not sure what you mean. hello, it is not rocket science Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, it is not rocket science Henry Sounds like a secret though, please enlighten? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 henry - are you being naïve? You ought to know what has been said. As Vince Green pointed out, Pakistan is where a lot of the drugs are imported from - read the original article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, you do not have to be racist to understand what has happened to our country in the last 60 years, Yep, we have let to many people into our country with totally different values, we also have our own home grown criminals without importing more from around the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: henry - are you being naïve? You ought to know what has been said. As Vince Green pointed out, Pakistan is where a lot of the drugs are imported from - read the original article. I read it, Afghanistan does not have the infrastruture to support direct export to europe/uk, Pakistan does. If we lived closer to mexico then it would come from there, if we lived nearer to Vietnam then it would come from there. You won`t need to worry about it soon as it is switching to China via the dark web for the ingredients of semi/synthetic opiods such as Fentanyl, oxycodone, hydrocodone which your average Joe on the street could churn out as long as they have the money for the ingredients and machinery. 54 minutes ago, old'un said: Yep, we have let to many people into our country with totally different values, we also have our own home grown criminals without importing more from around the world. If their values are very much different to ours then there would not be the home grown crims then would there, but there are and we have the taste for the narcotics too, but we cannot grow (outside at least) the raw ingredients, so it has to come from somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Vince Green said: As a lot of poppies are grown in Pakistan for the drugs trade its not that difficult to make the link. Bang on Vince, it’s hardly a difficult one to work out. Similar to how some of these countries are allowed to marry girls as young as 12, and then we wonder why they’re involved with the grooming scandals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 When 3rd world people leave 3rd world countries they take 3rd world values with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, henry d said: I read it, Afghanistan does not have the infrastruture to support direct export to europe/uk, Pakistan does. If we lived closer to mexico then it would come from there, if we lived nearer to Vietnam then it would come from there. You won`t need to worry about it soon as it is switching to China via the dark web for the ingredients of semi/synthetic opiods such as Fentanyl, oxycodone, hydrocodone which your average Joe on the street could churn out as long as they have the money for the ingredients and machinery. If their values are very much different to ours then there would not be the home grown crims then would there, but there are and we have the taste for the narcotics too, but we cannot grow (outside at least) the raw ingredients, so it has to come from somewhere. Yes we do have our own home grown criminals so why import more? And who’s supplying all these drugs on the streets? Like I said, to many people coming into the country creating no-go areas, societies with society keeping a very closed shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Doesn’t seem racist to me. It seems to encapsulate the entire drugs/violence problem. How many of the 100 firearms were committed by certificate holders? No idea but I’d like to think not many. How many of the firearms were pistols that are very hard for a legitimate holder to own? Most I guess. So the answer is not in a crackdown on shotgun or rimfire owners. The entire war on drugs has been a failure (unless you count militarising police forces) because nothing seems to affect demand, although there are signs that young people are using less. One way to reduce cartel profits is for western governments to buy opium at source and sell clean heroin to anyone stupid enough to want it. Until then, what’s going to change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Bang on Vince, it’s hardly a difficult one to work out. Similar to how some of these countries are allowed to marry girls as young as 12, and then we wonder why they’re involved with the grooming scandals. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/200000-children-married-us-15-years-child-marriage-child-brides-new-jersey-chris-christie-a7830266.html Almost every category of crime attributed to them lot over there who have inferior values can be found to exist right here in the civilised West. It's just a matter of whether one allows one to penetrate ones subconsciousness more than the other. People have to be incredibly naive to think our drugs problem is a Pakistani/Afghan or Yardy problem, it might press certain buttons but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, Hamster said: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/200000-children-married-us-15-years-child-marriage-child-brides-new-jersey-chris-christie-a7830266.html Almost every category of crime attributed to them lot over there who have inferior values can be found to exist right here in the civilised West. It's just a matter of whether one allows one to penetrate ones subconsciousness more than the other. People have to be incredibly naive to think our drugs problem is a Pakistani/Afghan or Yardy problem, it might press certain buttons but that's about it. If that’s the case why was there less of the type of crimes we see today 50 years ago? My experiences and eyes don’t lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, old'un said: If that’s the case why was there less of the type of crimes we see today 50 years ago? My experiences and eyes don’t lie. Because it was starting then, the good old swinging 60`s, the permissive society, anything goes man! Psychadelia instead of a pint of mild, hash and love instead of wine and cheese. Jimi and Janis shooting up and making it popular to be "experienced" led to the rise of Khun Sa (sp?) the Burmese warlord supplying opiods worldwide because the genie was out of the bottle and we could do what we pleased. No they just see things differently, its just baddies coming here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 35 minutes ago, old'un said: Like I said, to many people coming into the country creating no-go areas, societies with society keeping a very closed shop. Yeah, not sure if you were on here when we had our own society within a society, regarding drug dealing? (BTW, home grown, white british lad) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, henry d said: Because it was starting then, the good old swinging 60`s, the permissive society, anything goes man! Psychadelia instead of a pint of mild, hash and love instead of wine and cheese. Jimi and Janis shooting up and making it popular to be "experienced" led to the rise of Khun Sa (sp?) the Burmese warlord supplying opiods worldwide because the genie was out of the bottle and we could do what we pleased. No they just see things differently, its just baddies coming here. Like I said you don’t know my background and where I come from and what my eyes have seen, not all people who come here are bad, true, but the % of imported crime pushes us way past the home grown crimes of the 60s. 5 minutes ago, henry d said: Yeah, not sure if you were on here when we had our own society within a society, regarding drug dealing? (BTW, home grown, white british lad) What’s that got to-do with importing more criminals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, old'un said: Like I said you don’t know my background and where I come from and what my eyes have seen, not all people who come here are bad, true, but the % of imported crime pushes us way past the home grown crimes of the 60s. So would the general increase of the population even if we never allowed another person into the country from 1/1/1960, people are people and are good and bad in equal measure. What’s that got to-do with importing more criminals? Nothing, it has to do with our own society here which had a hidden criminal element, and I`m sure that isn`t the only one, and of course no one will admit to being a bit of a crim on here will they, and those who know they are won`t tell neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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