pinfireman Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, Retsdon said: Don't think you'd get much of a vote in Ireland for that! Why? They did once vote against the EU, and were forced to hold another referendum! Between the 2, the EU pushed billions of euros into the Irish economy. A bribe! The UK Chamber of Shipping has become the first major business group to come and officially call for the backstop to be binned this morning, after Guido exclusively revealed on Friday that a major industry group was planning an intervention this week. Writing in The Times, Chief Executive Bob Sanguinetti says “the government and the EU must agree to reopen negotiations and remove, or at least introduce a time limit for, the Irish backstop.” He adds: “This is the only way the withdrawal agreement can succeed.” Sanguinetti also rebuts the idea that the EU will never agree to this, highlighting Michel Barnier’s comments from last week where he undermined the whole rationale for the backstop: Those who criticise the idea of amending the backstop will rightly question whether the EU would agree to it. However, it won’t have escaped the notice of many in the business community when, last week, Michel Barnier said that “we will have to find an operational way of carrying our checks and controls without putting back in place a border”. He went on to say his team had studied how customs procedures and controls “could be made paperless or decentralised, which would be useful in all circumstances”. He was referring to Ireland but observers will remember how he dismissed these very same proposals when they were proposed by Britain. It appears then that there is common ground after all. And maybe — just maybe — a sensible resolution can be found. If parliament is able to unite around this key demand it will put tremendous pressure on the EU to agree. He is right – momentum is shifting against the backstop and the EU will not be able to carry on like it’s business as usual if Graham Brady’s amendment is passed tomorrow. The real reason why the EU won’t budge yet is because they’re still holding out hope that the Brexit-wreckers can derail the whole thing… Edited January 28, 2019 by pinfireman spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 Remain voting crossbench peer Lord Bew, whose contributions to the Good Friday Agreement were acknowledged in his appointment to the Lords, has accused the Irish Government of ‘weaponising‘ the Northern Irish peace process. “UK Government has allowed the Irish Government to weaponise the 1998 Good Friday Agreement in a way that prevents compromise on the Backstop” Lord Bew, who voted Remain, has written a briefing note for Policy Exchange in which he argues that the Northern Irish backstop endangers the peace process and has been predicated on a “partial reading of the Good Friday Agreement” which does not take into account the consent of the Northern Ireland Assembly. He argues that in order for the Good Friday Agreement to be respected, and peace preserved, it is crucial that “the Backstop is made temporary – in explicit and legally binding terms.” Something for MPs on all sides of the house to think about… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Remain voting crossbench peer Lord Bew, whose contributions to the Good Friday Agreement were acknowledged in his appointment to the Lords, has accused the Irish Government of ‘weaponising‘ the Northern Irish peace process. “UK Government has allowed the Irish Government to weaponise the 1998 Good Friday Agreement in a way that prevents compromise on the Backstop” Lord Bew, who voted Remain, has written a briefing note for Policy Exchange in which he argues that the Northern Irish backstop endangers the peace process and has been predicated on a “partial reading of the Good Friday Agreement” which does not take into account the consent of the Northern Ireland Assembly. He argues that in order for the Good Friday Agreement to be respected, and peace preserved, it is crucial that “the Backstop is made temporary – in explicit and legally binding terms.” Something for MPs on all sides of the house to think about… I would think the only thing which threatens the peace process are those people willing to resort once again, to violence. Anything else is merely an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 17 hours ago, Retsdon said: To be honest, there was a lot that wasn't pointed out. And that wasn't accidental. If was Vote Leave's policy not to have a defined Brexit stategy other than a vague aspiration to leave the EU. Dominic Cummings saw that if they had a position or plan they'd have to defend it, whereas without one they were free to devote all their energies to attacking the EU and Remain had no target themselves to hit back against. So here we are. Still no plan. Be honest, you never even heard of Dominic Cummings before that 'Uncivil War' film/docudrama . And to base assertions on a work of fiction, based on a few facts and assumptions, is a bit silly really. Vote leaves 'strategy was to get the people to vote to leave the EU , it wasnt a 'vague' aspiration. Just like remains job was to make us stay, it wasnt up to the campaign runners to make policy, that wasnt their job, their mandate or within their power to do so. Its like saying the bus promised £350 mil a week ? The bus had nothing to do with policy ONCE we had left, and anyone with a rudimentary grasp of how things work, would have known that. But if you want to base your mindset on a biased to remain film that centred around a person, who had nothing to do with its production, then fill your boots. Its like watching a Shakespeare play and thinking thats what actually happened. Its drama ! You talk of leave 'attacking the EU with remain having no target to hit back at ? First off the EU , with their dancing monkeys and champagne wastage lifestyles, are a very easy institution to attack, they have sneered down their noses at us for years , whilst holding out their grasping hands. Yet we point out the truths, with our 'unreasonable' stories of BILLIONS of £s sunk into their subsidised lives, their shiny buildings and soros bribes. and we get the usual 'nazi' jibes back. Because, unless you want to attack the British people for daring to want to follow their own path, the path they voted to take. Thats ALL theyve got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: But if you want to base your mindset on a biased to remain film Never seen this film that you're talking about. Never even heard of it actually. But I'm currently reading Shipman's All Out War, and I can read what Cummings himself had to say on the subject. Anyway, I'm happy you agree that there was no defined outcome other than 'leave the EU'...in other words, HOW the exit process was to be accomplished was never mentioned. I"m not quite sure how this squares with the regular assertion on this thread that a leave vote was a de facto no deal Brexit vote and any other form of Brexit is a betrayal. But there we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Never seen this film that you're talking about. Never even heard of it actually. But I'm currently reading Shipman's All Out War, and I can read what Cummings himself had to say on the subject. Anyway, I'm happy you agree that there was no defined outcome other than 'leave the EU'...in other words, HOW the exit process was to be accomplished was never mentioned. I"m not quite sure how this squares with the regular assertion on this thread that a leave vote was a de facto no deal Brexit vote and any other form of Brexit is a betrayal. But there we are. I don't know how many times it need pointing out. David Cameron the then leader of the government made it very clear what voting leave meant. There are plenty of videos online and many on this thread. Edited January 28, 2019 by Newbie to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Never seen this film that you're talking about. Never even heard of it actually. But I'm currently reading Shipman's All Out War, and I can read what Cummings himself had to say on the subject. Anyway, I'm happy you agree that there was no defined outcome other than 'leave the EU'...in other words, HOW the exit process was to be accomplished was never mentioned. I"m not quite sure how this squares with the regular assertion on this thread that a leave vote was a de facto no deal Brexit vote and any other form of Brexit is a betrayal. But there we are. Any other form of Brexit would be a betrayal if it doesn't bring back our laws and sovereignty, control of our borders and fisheries. This can very easily be tested. All it takes is for someone to table an amendment so that "REMAIN" will never be an option. Then all this BS will fade away. It doesn't even have to pass parliament. Just watch all those that vote against it. After all, the contention according to most remainers is "We respect the referendum vote but it's HOW we leave!" Utter hogwash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, toxo said: Any other form of Brexit would be a betrayal if it doesn't bring back our laws and sovereignty, control of our borders and fisheries. This can very easily be tested. All it takes is for someone to table an amendment so that "REMAIN" will never be an option. Then all this BS will fade away. It doesn't even have to pass parliament. Just watch all those that vote against it. After all, the contention according to most remainers is "We respect the referendum vote but it's HOW we leave!" Utter hogwash. Good point toxo, an amendment saying "remain will never be an option" would concentrate MP's minds and if they dare to vote against it? soon expose who the remainers are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Good point toxo, an amendment saying "remain will never be an option" would concentrate MP's minds and if they dare to vote against it? soon expose who the remainers are! But what are the chances of getting it past Bercow? Mind you, If he passes Cooper's "No no deal" he couldn't really say no could he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besty57 Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 25/01/2019 at 18:26, oowee said: Admiral insurance, Credit Suisse, RSA (jan 19), STM Life, Chub (jan 19 approved by france regulator),Schaeffler from Wales getting bored looking but here are a few companies leaving or agreed to leave the UK in part or in whole over last year. I listed some in an earlier post which you can look back to. Ever closer union is in the original article's for establishing the EU back in the 50's and talks about the people rather than the politics. I don't know much about it (including 2020) but if its one of the principle framework elements it requires all members to agree. From what you are saying above that looks unlikely? I have to go shooting now. 🙂 Maybe there leaving because they fear a liebor gov't , But of course they'll blame brexit, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Rewulf said: Be honest, you never even heard of Dominic Cummings before that 'Uncivil War' film/docudrama . And to base assertions on a work of fiction, based on a few facts and assumptions, is a bit silly really. Vote leaves 'strategy was to get the people to vote to leave the EU , it wasnt a 'vague' aspiration. Just like remains job was to make us stay, it wasnt up to the campaign runners to make policy, that wasnt their job, their mandate or within their power to do so. Its like saying the bus promised £350 mil a week ? The bus had nothing to do with policy ONCE we had left, and anyone with a rudimentary grasp of how things work, would have known that. But if you want to base your mindset on a biased to remain film that centred around a person, who had nothing to do with its production, then fill your boots. Its like watching a Shakespeare play and thinking thats what actually happened. Its drama ! You talk of leave 'attacking the EU with remain having no target to hit back at ? First off the EU , with their dancing monkeys and champagne wastage lifestyles, are a very easy institution to attack, they have sneered down their noses at us for years , whilst holding out their grasping hands. Yet we point out the truths, with our 'unreasonable' stories of BILLIONS of £s sunk into their subsidised lives, their shiny buildings and soros bribes. and we get the usual 'nazi' jibes back. Because, unless you want to attack the British people for daring to want to follow their own path, the path they voted to take. Thats ALL theyve got. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Rewulf said: Beat me to it 😋 These 'officials' didn't see the gilets jaunes coming did they? "Senior intelligence officials warned that civil unrest and rioting is almost inevitable and the UK will be left 'unstable' for decades" Well its a move upwards from WW3 I suppose 🤣 There was a good article in Saturdays paper, summed up that there had been rioting and violence is several countries around the world recently, all down to those in charge trying to increase the cost of fuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Retsdon said: Never seen this film that you're talking about. Never even heard of it actually. But I'm currently reading Shipman's All Out War, and I can read what Cummings himself had to say on the subject. Anyway, I'm happy you agree that there was no defined outcome other than 'leave the EU'...in other words, HOW the exit process was to be accomplished was never mentioned. I"m not quite sure how this squares with the regular assertion on this thread that a leave vote was a de facto no deal Brexit vote and any other form of Brexit is a betrayal. But there we are. Merely your interpretation! We voted to Leave....by any means possible! 5 minutes ago, besty57 said: Maybe there leaving because they fear a liebor gov't , But of course they'll blame brexit, Most of those he mentions are merely moving their office! And, from what I can see, most of them manufacture.........NOTHING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 All this nonsense about "the referendum didn't define how we'd leave the EU". It's just remoaner propaganda, being an EU member means the UK must follow a set of rules, so when we voted to leave the EU, it meant we voted to leave all the rules being an EU member entailed, it really is that simple, but of course the remoaners know this, they simply keep spreading their lying propaganda in an attempt to overturn the referendum result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 Roll on the 29th....interesting viewpoint below.. https://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/1077136/failing-EU-superstate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 24 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Most of those he mentions are merely moving their office! And, from what I can see, most of them manufacture.........NOTHING! Services is the area of trade where the UK has a positive balance of trade. It is the area that is making profit and we let it slip slip slip away. This area of the economy, based on knowledge jobs, the type of business that is hard for others to replicate, where salaries spending and tax are the highest is slip slip slipping away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 I think you will find that they are merely hedging their bets! How many job losses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 Despite endless increasingly hysterical media reports to the contrary, a landmark survey of businesses involved with public sector procurement has found that Brexit is ranked as only the fourth of six options in terms of having an impact on procurement strategy. In terms of ‘high impact’, Brexit comes in fifth of six… The survey, conducted by BiP Solutions with iGov Survey was ‘surprised’ to see the results, with Brexit coming below Social Value, the impact of EU legislation, and GDPR. “Three-quarters of organisations surveyed also believe GDPR will have a medium or high impact on procurement strategies. A further 71% cited EU Directives and legislative updates. Surprisingly, Brexit came fourth overall in terms of the responses.” Public procurement firms are more worried about the impact of EU regulation than the impact of leaving the EU… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 17 minutes ago, pinfireman said: I think you will find that they are merely hedging their bets! How many job losses? It's not so much the number although given the number of companies its the tax, the knowledge and the focus of growth. i know one in detail it's UK born and bred and just set up in spain with an office of over 500. It's for a new product business leaving the old behind. 4 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Despite endless increasingly hysterical media reports to the contrary, a landmark survey of businesses involved with public sector procurement has found that Brexit is ranked as only the fourth of six options in terms of having an impact on procurement strategy. In terms of ‘high impact’, Brexit comes in fifth of six… The survey, conducted by BiP Solutions with iGov Survey was ‘surprised’ to see the results, with Brexit coming below Social Value, the impact of EU legislation, and GDPR. “Three-quarters of organisations surveyed also believe GDPR will have a medium or high impact on procurement strategies. A further 71% cited EU Directives and legislative updates. Surprisingly, Brexit came fourth overall in terms of the responses.” Public procurement firms are more worried about the impact of EU regulation than the impact of leaving the EU… And what part of this problem can Bip solutions help you with? Yep you guessed it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, oowee said: It's not so much the number although given the number of companies its the tax, the knowledge and the focus of growth. i know one in detail it's UK born and bred and just set up in spain with an office of over 500. It's for a new product business leaving the old behind. And what part of this problem can Bip solutions help you with? Yep you guessed it lol. But it,s a POSITIVE! As for firms leaving the country, I did ask a couple of days ago for you to perhaps list the major companies who have relocated their factories to the Eastern European members of the EU.....................with grants to do so from........you,ve guessed it, the EU ! So we pay our Billions in, the EU "launders it, then gives it out in grants (bribes?) to companies to leave the UK, and set up new factories in the EU! Then, to compound it, they sell the goods back to us! The economics of the madhouse! It creates MORE unemployment here. We then have to pay those made jobless benefits! Crazy! P.S. Still awaiting the list................ Edited January 29, 2019 by pinfireman spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 DUP Leader Arlene Foster MLA: The DUP parliamentary group met this morning and discussed the ‘Malthouse’ alternative proposals for the draft withdrawal agreement. The DUP has given its endorsement to the plan. We believe it can unify a number of strands in the Brexit debate including the views of remainers and leavers. It also gives a feasible alternative to the backstop proposed by the European Union which would split the United Kingdom or keep the entire United Kingdom in the Customs Union and Single Market. Importantly, this proposal would also offer a route towards negotiating a future trade relationship between the United Kingdom and the European Union. If the Prime Minister is seeking to find a united front, both between elements in her own party and the DUP, in the negotiations which she will enter with the European Union, then this is a proposition which she should not turn her back on. There is no better time to advance this alternative given the confusion and disarray which is now manifesting itself in Brussels. This has been displayed both by the contradictory EU statements and the panic stricken behaviour of the Irish government. Meanwhile, Boris has tweeted that he will “gladly” support the Brady amendment “if the Prime Minister indicates in the debate that she will be pressing Brussels to reopen the WA to make changes to the backstop”, with Steve Baker’s support. The DUP look to be singing from the same hymn sheet… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, pinfireman said: As for firms leaving the country, I did ask a couple of days ago for you to perhaps list the major companies who have relocated their factories to the Eastern European members of the EU.....................with grants to do so from........you,ve guessed it, the EU ! So we pay our Billions in, the EU "launders it, then gives it out in grants (bribes?) to companies to leave the UK, and set up new factories in the EU! Then, to compound it, they sell the goods back to us! The economics of the madhouse! It creates MORE unemployment here. We then have to pay those made jobless benefits! Crazy! Could I ask, do any of our resident remainers here, dispute this happens ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Could I ask, do any of our resident remainers here, dispute this happens ? Strange how they always go quiet when asked about these matters? Labour’s Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary Tony Lloyd had an embarrassing appearance on Bloomberg TV this morning when he called the 29th March 2019 an “arbitrary” date, appearing not to understand that it is written into UK and EU law. Despite 498 MPs including the Labour leadership voting to set 29th March as exit day when they voted to trigger Article 50… “I think if there is a good chance that today we will see the time frame begin to move away from that March 29th, very arbitrary deadline by the way there’s nothing in law, nothing anywhere else said March 29th had to be that date.” If they can’t even get the basics right… yet they want to govern us? God help us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 1 minute ago, pinfireman said: If the Prime Minister is seeking to find a united front, both between elements in her own party and the DUP, in the negotiations which she will enter with the European Union, then this is a proposition which she should not turn her back on. The EU will reject it, they have to. They will try to force no deal rather than give us an easy way out, in any way shape or form. It would set a precedent that they cannot allow. I truly believe Brussels would see European business suffer before risking the collapse of the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Rewulf said: The EU will reject it, they have to. They will try to force no deal rather than give us an easy way out, in any way shape or form. It would set a precedent that they cannot allow. I truly believe Brussels would see European business suffer before risking the collapse of the project. One can only hope.........! No deal is better than a bad deal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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