Brexit - merged threads

[Retsdon]

https://youtu.be/-IL2XwSkFJQ?t=2

In some ways it's a bit of a shame about the profanities because  in the link above Jonathan Pie absolutely nails the Brexit debacle .'They broke the contract'. To his examples of how they broke the contract....austerity, UKIP only getting one seat, etc, he could have added turning the capital city and other towns into Towers of Babel, selling the countries' essential services like transport, utilites, water - anything at all in fact that could be flogged off for foreign companies to exploit for profit, starving provincial regions of capital investment...the list goes on and on. 

I also find it saddening that apparently the sole voice publicly articulating what I, and I'm sure millions of others, feel about Brexit comes from a satirical comedian with a penchant for bad language. Anyway, if you're not offended by the F-word it's very well worth watching. The real meat is in 2nd half BTW.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Retsdon

[oowee]

Certainly nailed it re the failure of first past the post system. Not sure how the Towers of Babel in the middle east has anything to do with the EU. Funny how people support free markets and the trade of the capitalist system and then object to free markets and trade of the capitalist system if 'johnny foreigner' buys some of it. Sounds xenophobic to me. 

[psycho]

National betrayal day

Hopefully the French PM will veto next month so we have to leave with a no deal brexit..

Democracy is a joke in this country like our government....

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by psycho

[smudgertoo]

https://www.facebook.com/AbroadImage/videos/597526424097479/?t=400

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

https://youtu.be/-IL2XwSkFJQ?t=2

In some ways it's a bit of a shame about the profanities because  in the link above Jonathan Pie absolutely nails the Brexit debacle .'They broke the contract'. To his examples of how they broke the contract....austerity, UKIP only getting one seat, etc, he could have added turning the capital city and other towns into Towers of Babel, selling the countries' essential services like transport, utilites, water - anything at all in fact that could be flogged off for foreign companies to exploit for profit, starving provincial regions of capital investment...the list goes on and on. 

I also find it saddening that apparently the sole voice publicly articulating what I, and I'm sure millions of others, feel about Brexit comes from a satirical comedian with a penchant for bad language. Anyway, if you're not offended by the F-word it's very well worth watching. The real meat is in 2nd half BTW.

It will be interesting to see what people with different perspectives take from this. The key take for me is that Brexit is a result of bigger underlying issues in the United Kingdom and in part a protest vote against the establishment, at least from the middle ground third who held the key to the result, the marginal leave voters referred to in the video.

[Raja Clavata]

5 minutes ago, smudgertoo said:

https://www.facebook.com/AbroadImage/videos/597526424097479/?t=400

Now that is a brilliant and very thought provoking speech!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Interesting to see Sir Kier Starmer held to task by Charlie Stayt on BBC Breakfast this morning.

Asked why the party have agreed to it in principle, they continue to play "party politics" and refuse to do what they have said they would do all along.

He squirmed and said that the PM had split things in two and they could not accept that.

If they passed this part it might just make things a little easier  to complete.

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Interesting to see Sir Kier Starmer

I used to have some respect for Starmer as the 'less looney' side of the Labour party ............ that is until he published his six points, which in effect said "we will only support a Brexit that is a 'no Brexit' in all practical ways".

He has played along with Corbyn in a cynical political game playing with business's fututres, peoples jobs and the nations future.  No respect for him at all now.

[hedge]

We now have an issue where TM has effectively split her proposal in two, in a hope to at least push some of it through so we can meet the EU exit deadline of 22nd May. 

The rest can be discussed `later` as this buys more time to do that.

I can't see any material change to the area to be deabted and voted on today since MV2. I REALLY hope that the DUP stick to their guns and vote it down. 

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by hedge

[Scully]

Shafted by all those in power who didn’t want a referendum in the first place, despite claiming they believe in democracy, and likewise by those whose vision extends no further than their own bank balances

[JohnfromUK]

There was an interesting interview on Radio 4 this morning with Lord (Mervyn) King - formerly Director of the Bank of England (before Carney).

He is a leaver, but was particularly making some points;

1. No Deal 'walk away' leave should NEVER have been taken off the table - because it is the strongest negotiating card - and is not by any means either suicidal or disastrous.
2. Far more preparation should have been made for 'No Deal', partly because it showed we were serious - and partly because it should always have been considered a significant probability.
3. Parliament had undermined the official Government position by playing political games and ignoring the task that was promised.
4. Since he left office - he pointed out that;

• 'economically' Britain has done 'slightly better' than Germany
• the pound was almost completely unchanged since the day he left office
• the stock market was doing fine and near an all time high
• the deficit reduction was making progress
• unemployment was falling
• overall the UK is in quite reasonable shape - certainly NOT the disaster Remainers predicted - and this despite the very poor handling of the Brexit process and negotiations.

[Retsdon]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

Not sure how the Towers of Babel in the middle east has anything to do with the EU.

I was talking about governments breaking the social contract. Pie uses the example of austerity but he could just as easily have used mass-immigration. Were citizens of the UK ever consulted on whether they wanted to become an ethnic minority in their own capital city?   Were UK citizens ever consulted on whether they wanted nearly 20% of the staff in the NHS to be recruited from overseas while at the same time young UK citizens are being forced to pay for their own training if they want to work in one of the country's essential services? In the 1940s as teenagers my mother and aunt left a small Welsh mining town to go up to London to train as student nurses at a London teaching  hospital all expenses found  - and in the 1970s, that option was still available. Fast forward to today and any young girl wanting to better herself and get out of Ystradgynlais to go nursing would need to find £14,000 p.a. in annual tuition fees and the rest for food and accommodation. But we need ready-trained Filipino or Bulgarian nurses because our own young people are too 'lazy' to do the job? Sure, that's be right.

No, successive governments of both main parties have been in breach of the social contract that exists in all societies which can be summed up as follows. The people at the top get to keep the cream, but in return they provide a minimum level of both social end economic security for the plebs who in return go and fight the wars, do the dirty jobs, man the essential services, etc, etc. But when in the town you were born and grew up in your kids are part of a small minority in their class who speak English as a home language,  or when they need to get themselves f into debt to the tune of 10s of thousands to train for an essential job, that social contract has been broken. 

And as Pie said - it explains Brexit.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Retsdon

[Rewulf]

[Rewulf]

The ultimate threat to labour is on the table now.
If labour dont back her deal (for the 3rd time ) a GE will be called.

Corbyn , in a panic has now tabled a motion of no confidence in the prime minister 😂

[Mice!]

16 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

The ultimate threat to labour is on the table now.
If labour dont back her deal (for the 3rd time ) a GE will be called.

Corbyn , in a panic has now tabled a motion of no confidence in the prime minister 😂

Really??

[Rewulf]

13 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Really??

https://evolvepolitics.com/2019/03/28/downing-street-general-election-will-be-called-if-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-is-voted-down-for-third-time-on-friday/?fbclid=IwAR1airoXQUIeDoSqJxIekRAzi-Qd9molajIJrEpKl5coFWJDqzedpikEv4E

[Scully]

2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

https://evolvepolitics.com/2019/03/28/downing-street-general-election-will-be-called-if-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-is-voted-down-for-third-time-on-friday/?fbclid=IwAR1airoXQUIeDoSqJxIekRAzi-Qd9molajIJrEpKl5coFWJDqzedpikEv4E

Interesting times! 😃👍

[Mice!]

6 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

https://evolvepolitics.com/2019/03/28/downing-street-general-election-will-be-called-if-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-is-voted-down-for-third-time-on-friday/?fbclid=IwAR1airoXQUIeDoSqJxIekRAzi-Qd9molajIJrEpKl5coFWJDqzedpikEv4E

Thanks👍

This could be interesting indeed, JRM must be rubbing his hands

[hedge]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

There was an interesting interview on Radio 4 this morning with Lord (Mervyn) King - formerly Director of the Bank of England (before Carney).

He is a leaver, but was particularly making some points;

1. No Deal 'walk away' leave should NEVER have been taken off the table - because it is the strongest negotiating card - and is not by any means either suicidal or disastrous.
2. Far more preparation should have been made for 'No Deal', partly because it showed we were serious - and partly because it should always have been considered a significant probability.
3. Parliament had undermined the official Government position by playing political games and ignoring the task that was promised.
4. Since he left office - he pointed out that;

• 'economically' Britain has done 'slightly better' than Germany
• the pound was almost completely unchanged since the day he left office
• the stock market was doing fine and near an all time high
• the deficit reduction was making progress
• unemployment was falling
• overall the UK is in quite reasonable shape - certainly NOT the disaster Remainers predicted - and this despite the very poor handling of the Brexit process and negotiations.

That sums it up quite nicely for me. Lord King is someone who thinks like a businessman and not a politician.

That is why politicians will never be good negotiators (or businessmen/women)

 

[Rewulf]

Oops ! 

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Thanks👍

This could be interesting indeed, JRM must be rubbing his hands

Rubbing his hands in despair knowing his party is split in two?

I guess so because if you voted Brexit the Tories are doing a great job so you want more of that, or you voted remain and know the Tories will help you out with that. Or the GE was pretty undecisive last time and with lots of tactical voting the vote this time will be even less clear cut so we will have less clarity on the mandate. Maybe someone will stand on a remain ticket 🙂 

A long extension gives a long time for a rethink. 

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Rubbing his hands in despair knowing his party is split in two?

As opposed to labour , who are doing great at the moment ?

 

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

A long extension gives a long time for a rethink. 

A long extension also gives us EU elections, and oops , needs UNANIMOUS 27 member approval 😂 Or does it ??

A rethink where the simple FACT that we have a house that has failed to deliver any kind of result on Brexit.
More time for that to fester among the people who voted to leave.

Or did you actually mean , more time to rethink the foolish decision 17.4 million people made ?

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, Rewulf said:

Are we about to spin-off in two alternative realities at 11pm this evening, one where we've left the EU and another where we haven't...

[amateur]

10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Are we about to spin-off in two alternative realities at 11pm this evening, one where we've left the EU and another where we haven't...

Are we allowed to quote Schrodinger's cat theory. Or is that banned as a cat thread. 

It certainly seems that the closer Brexit appears to happen, the more illusive it becomes

[Mice!]

26 minutes ago, oowee said:

Rubbing his hands in despair knowing his party is split in two?

I guess so because if you voted Brexit the Tories are doing a great job so you want more of that, or you voted remain and know the Tories will help you out with that. Or the GE was pretty undecisive last time and with lots of tactical voting the vote this time will be even less clear cut so we will have less clarity on the mandate. Maybe someone will stand on a remain ticket 🙂 

A long extension gives a long time for a rethink. 

I don't see a long extension because then we're involved with the European elections and they don't want us involved in that.

I'm thinking TM resigns which will trigger the leadership doo dah, parliament doesn't seem able to agree on anything going forward concerned with brexit, So its GE time tories surely have to go strong on brexit hoping for a big majority while labour promise everything the money tree can offer.

But all the working class areas oop North aren't going to blindly follow labour, they want out, and i think they'll vote for who delivers OUT