oowee Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: So in effect the candidates standing and putting themselves forward to stand - don't really know what basic policies (other than to leave the EU) they will be be standing on? That is wholly unsatisfactory. In a 'traditional party' - whilst you don't have the detailed manifesto when selecting candidates, there is an official 'understood' party policy and set of values. For example (excluding Brexit itself) with the Tories it is for encouraging saving, a sound economic footing for business, low taxation, low(ish) spending, reducing debt, encouraging private enterprise, generally supporting UN/USA foreign policy, (sort of) controlling immigration etc. Labour it is redistribution of saved wealth, high spending, increased borrowing, increasing taxation especially on business, increased state control and renationalisation, supporting countries like Palestine, Venezuela, North Korea rather than the traditional USA supported ones, welcoming immigrants. My assumption is that the Brexit party will broadly align with the Tory view, but perhaps I am wrong? I could stand as a candidate (I never would!) based on something along the Tory lines, but I couldn't based on the Labour lines because I don't believe in those policies. They HAVE TO have some basic position if they are to get the right (and high grade) candidates (or we will end up like UKIP with a load of ex EDL thugs in the running). Any candidate worth voting for will want to know the basic principles the party wishes to support. ^^^^^ This. Which leaves traditional Tory supporters pulled in different directions dependent on how hard a Brexit the party ultimately stands for. Hard or soft Brexit they loose a chunk of voters. Leaving maybe a 4 way distribution. Tory soft, labour soft, Brexit party and the others would leave a soft coalition. Or Tory hard split with Brexit party Labour soft and others still leaving a likely soft coalition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: I don't think Farage can be blamed for what's going on, he's not in a position to actually do anything, all the main party's particularly the Cons have done everything in their power to block him from helping, despite his offer as a go between with trump as they are very close, such is the fear from treasondisMay, she actually stipulated that trump not be allowed to meet Farage on his upcoming state visit. Your second point I feel unfair to, Farage has been crystal clear on the relationship he'd like us to have with the EU from the very day the leave vote won, he has stated many, many times he'd like a free trade deal with the EU, but if they won't we should walk away, aka hard brexit and retry negotiations from there, if they still won't see sense then we trade with the rest of the world, as it would still be better than where we are currently, I don't know how he could be any clearer to be honest. Regardless of what anyone's personal view of Farage is, I don't think anyone can fairly give him criticism on not being clear on where he stands with the EU, he must be the only politician (and his brexit party) with a totally honest and clear stated aim of what they want to achieve. I don't think it's a case of blaming him for what's going on but highlighting the fact that his version of the Brexit seems to have chopped and changed over time (and is still not wholly consistent). We have ample examples of his ability to deliver rhetoric and put downs so it would be good to see how he performs in real meaningful debate, good practice to meet his aspirations for No. 10 too. The bit about a contract with the people does sound good and refreshing, would love to be proved wrong but I bet he's already identified a scapegoat in the event it doesn't fly. 11 minutes ago, 243deer said: +1 Does anyone really believe that a manifesto from any political party has any meaning or influence in the real world? They are simply a collection of sound bites designed to get a vote. All they do is to devalue the paper that they are written on and keep printers and journalists in work. The 2 main parties have had it cosy for too long, time for a political revolution. To date yes, they have served the parties pretty well in getting elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 (edited) It really will be a breath of fresh air if it all goes Nigels way! Edited May 16, 2019 by TIGHTCHOKE Capitalisation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: I don't think it's a case of blaming him for what's going on but highlighting the fact that his version of the Brexit seems to have chopped and changed over time (and is still not wholly consistent). We have ample examples of his ability to deliver rhetoric and put downs so it would be good to see how he performs in real meaningful debate, good practice to meet his aspirations for No. 10 too. The bit about a contract with the people does sound good and refreshing, would love to be proved wrong but I bet he's already identified a scapegoat in the event it doesn't fly. To date yes, they have served the parties pretty well in getting elected. Again, I think he's about the only politician who has consistently said the same thing regarding leaving the EU since the start, I'm not sure I get what you think he's changed his mind on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 5 hours ago, oowee said: Tory's cant have an agreement with the Brexit party if they field 650 candidates. People voted for Brexit with no idea what it means so I can't see the same people holding back on voting for a party with no idea of a manifesto. Hard for Farage to have a manifesto for the add on bits of policy (everything other than Brexit) when you have no plan for the central plank of policy (Brexit). Be interesting to see where the tory party are on Brexit post May. Once again, you get it wrong...................WE DID KNOW WHAT WE WERE VOTING FOR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 I knew exactly why I voted leave and that was to get away from the EU and all the rubbish that's in there, the EU need us far more than we need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Once again, you get it wrong...................WE DID KNOW WHAT WE WERE VOTING FOR! Looked fairly straight forward thing to me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 4 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: So in effect the candidates standing and putting themselves forward to stand - don't really know what basic policies (other than to leave the EU) they will be be standing on? That is wholly unsatisfactory. In a 'traditional party' - whilst you don't have the detailed manifesto when selecting candidates, there is an official 'understood' party policy and set of values. For example (excluding Brexit itself) with the Tories it is for encouraging saving, a sound economic footing for business, low taxation, low(ish) spending, reducing debt, encouraging private enterprise, generally supporting UN/USA foreign policy, (sort of) controlling immigration etc. Labour it is redistribution of saved wealth, high spending, increased borrowing, increasing taxation especially on business, increased state control and renationalisation, supporting countries like Palestine, Venezuela, North Korea rather than the traditional USA supported ones, welcoming immigrants. My assumption is that the Brexit party will broadly align with the Tory view, but perhaps I am wrong? I could stand as a candidate (I never would!) based on something along the Tory lines, but I couldn't based on the Labour lines because I don't believe in those policies. They HAVE TO have some basic position if they are to get the right (and high grade) candidates (or we will end up like UKIP with a load of ex EDL thugs in the running). Any candidate worth voting for will want to know the basic principles the party wishes to support. The vote on the 23rd is not for a National Parliament, it is for the EU Parliament and they all know hy they will be there.... to help close it down. As said and as Nigel explained, for the next General Election then policies will be revealed and based on the thoguhts of their members as a whole and based on a contract with those people and as with Trump, he promised the American people to do things and he has stood by that, not like your pro politician who makes false promises every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: I don't think it's a case of blaming him for what's going on but highlighting the fact that his version of the Brexit seems to have chopped and changed over time (and is still not wholly consistent). We have ample examples of his ability to deliver rhetoric and put downs so it would be good to see how he performs in real meaningful debate, good practice to meet his aspirations for No. 10 too. The bit about a contract with the people does sound good and refreshing, would love to be proved wrong but I bet he's already identified a scapegoat in the event it doesn't fly. To date yes, they have served the parties pretty well in getting elected. Farage debated back in 2014, and blew the opposition away! The only way they can stop him, is to shout over him, as they do on Question Time, and as Marr did! There is no way they will ever let him answer in full............ 3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: Again, I think he's about the only politician who has consistently said the same thing regarding leaving the EU since the start, I'm not sure I get what you think he's changed his mind on? You are right, Nigel has been quite clear about how he thinks we SHOULD leave the EU, and how he thinks we WILL leave the EU, down to May,s rubbish Deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Looked fairly straight forward thing to me . Can't you enable editing then we can have a PW vote to stay or leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, B725 said: I knew exactly why I voted leave and that was to get away from the EU and all the rubbish that's in there, the EU need us far more than we need them. Correct! 8 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Looked fairly straight forward thing to me . Crystal clear! Just Remoaners trying to muddy the waters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, B725 said: Can't you enable editing then we can have a PW vote to stay or leave What, like a 2nd referendum !? 😂 I like the result of the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Walker570 said: The vote on the 23rd is not for a National Parliament, it is for the EU Parliament And I will be supporting them then. 8 minutes ago, Walker570 said: As said and as Nigel explained, for the next General Election then policies will be revealed and based on the thoguhts of their members as a whole and based on a contract with those people And that is where the wheels may fall off; among people who support Brexit, there is a very broad range of views from the centreish of the Labour party through to ex UKIP and BNP fringes. Keeping such a broad spectrum all happy on things other than Brexit will be a major headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 So did I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 Farage stated a vote for the Brexit Party is a vote for WTO Brexit and that if he does well in the EU elections he wants a seat at the table negotiating Brexit with the EU. JRM states on Preston on the Wednesday that on Friday that he will vote the same way as the DPU on May's third attempt at getting the WA through, on the Friday he votes in favour of the WA. Yeah, Remainers muddying the waters whilst Brexiteers have clearly got their story straight and are all in agreement. Top that with the fact that there now appears to be rhetoric suggesting that if we do go WTO it's the fault of the Remain MPs. You really couldn't make it up - but both sides do, constantly. Spout absolute drivel enough times and loudly enough it somehow becomes fact these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyn Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 I see Democracy Deniers tried to block roads in Merthyr Tydfil last night to stop people going to hear nigel farage speak at a meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, wyn said: I see Democracy Deniers tried to block roads in Merthyr Tydfil last night to stop people going to hear nigel farage speak at a meeting. That smacks of despiration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 I noticed he had upped his 'entourage'. Smart suited men who look like they don't wear a suit very often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 What (I imagine) most of us on here want most of all - being mainly home grown working class realists who shoot at varying degrees, is PRIMARILY to get the flip outa EU, then probably similar values to Conservative that will be reasonably closely taken into consideration and actioned where possible - usually against the wishes of opposition party interests. I think that about sums up what I want anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Dave-G said: I think that about sums up what I want anyway. and I could go along with that as well - with life going on with minimal state/government interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 Sounds good to me without the EU part lol. Either way leave or stay we will be with the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 Wonder how long this will be allowed in our front room window before her indoors removes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 Loving that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbob Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 40 minutes ago, Dave-G said: Wonder how long this will be allowed in our front room window before her indoors removes it. No offence intended but Brexit Party Mugs - just saying 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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