JohnfromUK Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, sportsbob said: Do we not get a hard Brexit by default if there is no deal agreed ? and if so why would it need to go before parliament. See Uilleachan's post above; 14 minutes ago, Uilleachan said: The westminster parliament is sovereign, not the cabinet, not the PM. Agreed, however, just as Parliament 'delegates' the day to day running to the various ministries, without a vote on each and every action carried out by the ministries, the Brexit 'process' was agreed by Parliament .... to be carried out by the Brexit secretary (and his department) and by a date set. That should have been it. When (for example) the Ministry of Defence (empowered by Parliament with protecting our country and having a budget to carry out their remit) decides to have a new aircraft carrier and negotiates a deal with a shipyard to build it, the ministry doesn't have to have that contract approved by parliament. Parliament (rightly) agreed to carry through the outcome of the referendum (the Policy), the Brexit secretary being responsible for the detail, overseen by the cabinet and PM. Parliament should not have to vote on the outcome (i.e. the detail on how the policy is implemented). They have had their vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 12 hours ago, TriBsa said: Perhaps we shall see a new political force tapping into this anger and desire for change. Sadly at the moment - the loudest talk about a 'new party' seems to involve Blair, Mandleson, Cable, Clegg & co talking of forming a 'centre left remain orientated' party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Uilleachan said: The westminster parliament is sovereign, not the cabinet, not the PM. That principle is the foundation of the english bill of rights which in turn is a cornerstone of the UK constitution, another being the scottish claim of rights. To change that the treaty of union would need dissolving, i.e. that would involve dissolving the UK. Miller was never going to lose and the Government knew that, as did anyone with a grasp of what written constitution the UK has, the UK government opposition to Miller's case was sophistry and nothing more. If someone was looking to attribute blame for the brexit debacle, they'd need to look elsewhere as Miller isn't to blame for any of it. Whilst Im not disagreeing with that analysis, you have missed out a crucial factor. The electorate vote for the MPs who make up parliament, WE give parliament its power to govern us, and WE can take it back from them. Woe betide the MPs who go against their constituents wishes on Brexit , especially when they had a leave majority vote, the likes of Anna Soubrey are history next election, and living in very close to her constituency, I can guarantee you that, I would be most surprised if she even stands. She will retire behind the walls of her mansion, and watch her borough council go into bankruptcy on her watch, she is one of the worst MPs Nottingham has ever known. And she is just one example. So if Parliaments MPs want to commit collective political suicide by opposing the final 'deal or no deal' then let them get on with it, they can go the way the Lib Dems went in 2015, and we shall have some fresh faces. Gina Miller, mmm ... do you believe Ms Miller had such pangs of democratic conscience that she decided to pursue her agenda ? Or was it someone elses agenda ? Being interviewed she struggled to synthesise a coherent argument for what she was doing, she even said once she did it because she was bored ! It became obvious to me early on she was the figurehead/ fall woman for a powerful person or organisation that had a vested interest in cancelling Brexit. It became less about the legal process and democracy, and more about the 'idiocy' of leaving. When Soros dedicated a fund of millions to fight it, enabling various remain organisations to pick up the pace, Miller, who was heavily involved with many of them, quietly withdrew into the shadows from whence she came. Had the tenuous link between the two become a little too obvious, her husband and Mr Soros (both hedge fund managers) were they complicit in some deal, that potentially could have made them a considerable amount of money on a failed Brexit ? We can only surmise, but a singular truth is always apparent to me. You know a politicians lying when their lips are moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rewulf said: You know a politicians lying when their lips are moving. Not 100% true; they may be partaking of free/subsidised food or drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Just now, JohnfromUK said: Not 100% true; they may be partaking of free/subsidised food or drink. Forgot that bit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 hello, OH YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS UP, LATEST NEWS our under paid !!!!!! MPs now want more expenses due to, wait for it , drum roll BREXIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, OH YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS UP, LATEST NEWS our under paid !!!!!! MPs now want more expenses due to, wait for it , drum roll BREXIT F-F-S you really couldn't make that up Edited August 20, 2018 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/08/19/exclusive-mps-demand-bigger-expenses-budget-cope-additional/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Will they be asking for larger troughs too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 As their snouts grow larger, there is less room at the trough. Hence bigger troughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Why do you ALL moan about your / the, MP’s and yet none of you are involved in your local Conservative /Labour/Lib Dem etc party with a view to establishing yourselves as a Candidate for Election? Its incredibly easy to sit behind a keyboard chuntering on, its another getting off your backside and trying to change it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Why do you ALL moan about your / the, MP’s and yet none of you are involved in your local Conservative /Labour/Lib Dem etc party with a view to establishing yourselves as a Candidate for Election? Its incredibly easy to sit behind a keyboard chuntering on, its another getting off your backside and trying to change it...... Yes it is isn't it! I have a healthy dislike of nearly all politicians and would have no interest in trying to change the system by being part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Why do you ALL moan about your / the, MP’s and yet none of you are involved in your local Conservative /Labour/Lib Dem etc party with a view to establishing yourselves as a Candidate for Election? Its incredibly easy to sit behind a keyboard chuntering on, its another getting off your backside and trying to change it...... We cant all be MPs Jaymo ! Im just happy having a vote every now and then, and chuntering on about it from my keyboard ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 ? chunter away ....... at least you lot make me giggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jaymo said: ? chunter away ....... at least you lot make me giggle Yep Jaymo I get where you are coming from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Aled said: Yep Jaymo I get where you are coming from... Really Aled ? Chuntering, moaning , is one of the things people do when they feel powerless to change things, it makes us feel better, blows off steam. It helps to know that there are others who feel the same way, and sometimes people who dont, who can explain the other side ? Some one mentioned politicians and the usual greed and avarice that follows, Jaymo recommended becoming one, to change it somehow from the inside. Like becoming a whore to protest against prostitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 33 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Why do you ALL moan about your / the, MP’s and yet none of you are involved in your local Conservative /Labour/Lib Dem etc party with a view to establishing yourselves as a Candidate for Election? Its incredibly easy to sit behind a keyboard chuntering on, its another getting off your backside and trying to change it...... hello, as a young married of 20 before my 2 sons were born and moved to a new home in an area i lived in since 1959 i decided to put my self forward to become a local councillor, bearing in mind most were past retired and or worked for local goverment and had time off any time and paid plus expences, it was the case of not what you know but who you know, i expect it still has this today, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 52 minutes ago, Jaymo said: yet none of you are involved in your local Conservative /Labour/Lib Dem etc party I was involved for about 15 years - and helped fund raise, canvas and do 'telling' at the election for my (now retired MP for whom I had a lot of respect) and local government candidate. The new MP who has replaced him also seems OK. I resigned my membership over simply too many broken promises from the party and wrote to the constituency office at the time explaining my reasons. I would not rejoin the same (or any other party) as things stand at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Really Aled ? Chuntering, moaning , is one of the things people do when they feel powerless to change things, it makes us feel better, blows off steam. It helps to know that there are others who feel the same way, and sometimes people who dont, who can explain the other side ? Some one mentioned politicians and the usual greed and avarice that follows, Jaymo recommended becoming one, to change it somehow from the inside. Like becoming a whore to protest against prostitution. Totally agree with you rewulf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: Really Aled ? Chuntering, moaning , is one of the things people do when they feel powerless to change things, it makes us feel better, blows off steam. It helps to know that there are others who feel the same way, and sometimes people who dont, who can explain the other side ? Some one mentioned politicians and the usual greed and avarice that follows, Jaymo recommended becoming one, to change it somehow from the inside. Like becoming a whore to protest against prostitution. Nothing wrong with ‘pimping’ oneself out ? Its just like being self employed .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Nothing wrong with ‘pimping’ oneself out ? Its just like being self employed .......... ? Youre not wrong, however... A strong performance guarantees return business ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Jaymo said: Why do you ALL moan about your / the, MP’s and yet none of you are involved in your local Conservative /Labour/Lib Dem etc party with a view to establishing yourselves as a Candidate for Election? Its incredibly easy to sit behind a keyboard chuntering on, its another getting off your backside and trying to change it...... To get elected you need to "belong" (deliberately chosen word!) to a party, as an independent, a green, flat earther or other joke party candidate, you would have no chance of election! If you are accepted by the party as a parliamentary candidate you have to be a party member....and when you get elected you have to pull the party line, otherwise you and your "career" are going nowhere!......but if you have no scruples or integrity, you can get rich on the allowances/expenses you can claim and via the doors being an MP opens for you!.....and if you can ingratiate yourself enough on the prime minister, you could become a government minister.........then the sky's the limit for free World travel, expenses, allowances, bribes, cash for questions etc etc etc, and many other ways of getting your nose in the trough that is the public purse! I wouldnt last five minutes, far too independent thinking, have integrity, honesty and a consciences!.....So no point in me standing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Jaymo said: Why do you ALL moan about your / the, MP’s and yet none of you are involved in your local Conservative /Labour/Lib Dem etc party with a view to establishing yourselves as a Candidate for Election? Its incredibly easy to sit behind a keyboard chuntering on, its another getting off your backside and trying to change it...... In reality, none of us on here would ever be likely to get selected as a candidate for Cons or Lab and who would want to be a Lib Dem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 Im converted EU rules ! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 As I see it! The UK democratically voted to leave the EU and that's what the UK will do!.......If Parliament or the 'people's vote' (remainers by another name) secure a vote on the negotiated terms of Brexit....so be it! They are different things! If the vote is to accept the negotiated terms fine, if the vote is to reject the negotiated terms? That's fine too.....the UK will leave the EU on 29th March 2019, the only question is will we leave on negotiated terms or without them? That sounds like democracy in action to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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