Brexit - merged threads

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

 

That sounds like democracy in action to me!

Sounds like it to me too, but I dont think thats the plan.
I think they believe if the people get a vote on the terms, and for some reason, they dont like them, then the whole leaving things off !
Or we vote again, rinse and repeat ..

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Sounds like it to me too, but I dont think thats the plan.
I think they believe if the people get a vote on the terms, and for some reason, they dont like them, then the whole leaving things off !
Or we vote again, rinse and repeat ..

That's how the EU operates, loose a vote, then make the people vote again until they vote "the right way"

[dead eye alan]

14 hours ago, panoma1 said:

As I see it! The UK democratically voted to leave the EU and that's what the UK will do!.......If Parliament or the 'people's vote' (remainers by another name) secure a vote on the negotiated terms of Brexit....so be it! They are different things! If the vote is to accept the negotiated terms fine, if the vote is to reject the negotiated terms? That's fine too.....the UK will leave the EU on 29th March 2019, the only question is will we leave on negotiated terms or without them?

That sounds like democracy in action to me!

 It would be if the other side negotiated instead of dictated. 

[JohnfromUK]

14 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I think they believe if the people get a vote on the terms, and for some reason, they dont like them, then the whole leaving things off !
Or we vote again, rinse and repeat ..

Yes, I think that is what they have in mind as well.

[Vince Green]

On ‎21‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 17:31, Rewulf said:

Sounds like it to me too, but I dont think thats the plan.
I think they believe if the people get a vote on the terms, and for some reason, they dont like them, then the whole leaving things off !
Or we vote again, rinse and repeat ..

That's what they are angling for, the likes of Blair, Clegg, Cable, Miller (and her financial backer George Soros) etc hope to split the leave vote. If they negotiate some convoluted rubbish terms and then ask me if I am happy with them I will say no. Its not that I don't want to leave I just don't want the terms.  Mr Remainer who lives over the road will always say no.

So the no vote is going to be loaded massively against a yes vote, and they know it

Edited August 22, 2018 by Vince Green

[panoma1]

15 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Sounds like it to me too, but I dont think thats the plan.
I think they believe if the people get a vote on the terms, and for some reason, they dont like them, then the whole leaving things off !
Or we vote again, rinse and repeat ..

But they are two different things! The UK has already voted to leave the EU which has been decided will be on the 29th March 2019, the "terms" are another issue, they do not alter or affect the original decision to leave! That ship has already sailed!

The only matter a parliamentary vote can now decide upon, is whether we leave with or without the "terms" as negotiated.

Using a vote on accepting or rejecting the "terms" of leaving, as a reason to overturn the democratic decision to leave the EU is undemocratic, a gross betrayal of the will of the people and possibly treasonous?.....this being so the people of the UK do not have to comply with or accept it!............Which raises the spectre (as some politico who's name escapes me, has pointed out!) of possible civil disobedience and violence in the streets!

 

[12gauge82]

The remainiacs haven't got an argument when they say "we haven't voted on the terms of leaving" we must leave everything that means being a member of the EU club entails, otherwise we've only partially left, and I don't remember that option on my ballot paper when I voted.

[old man]

Not sure that the crime of Treason applies to us plebians just the Crown?

Seems politicos can do as they like to us, which is exactly how the system has been manipulated to be?

Democracy, merely a word?

[Vince Green]

Look at my thread on who can vote in the UK and reflect, all those people will voting on our Brexit deal, Its remainers heaven 

[old man]

On 22/08/2018 at 21:13, Vince Green said:

Look at my thread on who can vote in the UK and reflect, all those people will voting on our Brexit deal, Its remainers heaven 

Sadly, looking at the unelectable lot in power and the so called opposition we maybe  just as well be run by the unelected lot in Europe? Nothing to choose between them?

[AVB]

Anybody read the latest fear story that the Grand National will be at risk because Irish  and French trainers won’t be able to bring their horses over! So what about all the horses that come over from Dubai every season? Last time I checked they weren’t I the EU and they manage OK. 

Ridiculous 

[Walker570]

The EU numpties are really starting to panic. They have pulled old Rumpty Tumpty out of retirement to spread fake news now and he is stirring the Scotland theme.

[12gauge82]

It seems obvious that if the biggest stumbling blocks the remainiacs can pull from their magical remoaner hats is that Irish and French trainers won’t be able to bring their horses over for the grand national, there clearly can't be much to worry about, it's getting more ridiculous the closer we get to the "deadline", just like it did as we got towards the referendum.

[panoma1]

All the scare stories about, shortages of this and that because the EU won't facilitate/allow goods etc to be sent to the UK........does the UK not export goods and other things to the EU?.......does trade not work both ways?

Its as if our politicians and the remainers are softening us up for somthing that isn't Brexit, by trying to convince us the UK has nothing the EU want from us and no bargaining power!

Makes you suspect the convoluted timescale for our final exit from the EU was just a tactic to buy time in which to frustrate the result of the referendum?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

7 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

All the scare stories about, shortages of this and that because the EU won't facilitate/allow goods etc to be sent to the UK........does the UK not export goods and other things to the EU?.......does trade not work both ways?

Its as if our politicians and the remainers are softening us up for somthing that isn't Brexit, by trying to convince us the UK has nothing the EU want from us and no bargaining power!

Makes you suspect the convoluted timescale for our final exit from the EU was just a tactic to buy time in which to frustrate the result of the referendum?

Starting to look extremely possible!

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

.......does trade not work both ways?

Well - inn the EU, negotiation seems to only work one way, so perhaps trade is the same?

[old man]

Certainly things that smell fishy usually are.

There is something underhand going on here?

There is a silver lining to any cloud as always, in the fact that if our economy is forced down the pan there will be no money for the politicos to allow unfettered access from outside to our NHS and benefits because it won't exist! They will also be outed at the ballot box.

[TriBsa]

3 minutes ago, old man said:

Certainly things that smell fishy usually are.

There is something underhand going on here?

There is a silver lining to any cloud as always, in the fact that if our economy is forced down the pan there will be no money for the politicos to allow unfettered access from outside to our NHS and benefits because it won't exist! They will also be outed at the ballot box.

There will always be money for their pet globalist project through borrowing. Unless a credible political alternative to the LibLabCon cartel emerges, then the old line of "vote for us, or you will get them" will keep on working. Vote Conservative or you get Labour and vote Labour or you get Conservative has worked for generations.It must be recognised for the con it is. I will not vote Conservative again, I just hope that their is a viable alternative be it a resurgent UKIP or another new party. The contempt that they have shown to the Brexit vote and their ongoing destruction of our country through mass migration will not be forgotten. Crime seems to be out of control and Political Correctness is ever more invasive. I just don't buy the argument that they are a bulwark against the chaos of Corbyn.

[old man]

32 minutes ago, TriBsa said:

There will always be money for their pet globalist project through borrowing. Unless a credible political alternative to the LibLabCon cartel emerges, then the old line of "vote for us, or you will get them" will keep on working. Vote Conservative or you get Labour and vote Labour or you get Conservative has worked for generations.It must be recognised for the con it is. I will not vote Conservative again, I just hope that their is a viable alternative be it a resurgent UKIP or another new party. The contempt that they have shown to the Brexit vote and their ongoing destruction of our country through mass migration will not be forgotten. Crime seems to be out of control and Political Correctness is ever more invasive. I just don't buy the argument that they are a bulwark against the chaos of Corbyn.

Point taken.

If there is no viable alternative to the two usuals, I shall mark mine to say 'none of these' as I can't continue to support these cretins.

 

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, old man said:

I shall mark mine to say 'none of these' as I can't continue to support these cretins.

Having attended the 'count' in the past as an observer, and papers deemed by the counters (who are local council officials/clerks in normal life) - no notice at all is taken of any 'spoiled papers'.  They are just another statistic.  Even the counters don't bother to read what is on them.

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, TriBsa said:

There will always be money for their pet globalist project through borrowing. Unless a credible political alternative to the LibLabCon cartel emerges, then the old line of "vote for us, or you will get them" will keep on working. Vote Conservative or you get Labour and vote Labour or you get Conservative has worked for generations.It must be recognised for the con it is. I will not vote Conservative again, I just hope that their is a viable alternative be it a resurgent UKIP or another new party. The contempt that they have shown to the Brexit vote and their ongoing destruction of our country through mass migration will not be forgotten. Crime seems to be out of control and Political Correctness is ever more invasive. I just don't buy the argument that they are a bulwark against the chaos of Corbyn.

I and many I know feel the same, if the conservatives don't deliver brexit as was voted for, I can see a surprise happening at the ballot boxs in the near future.

[TriBsa]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

I and many I know feel the same, if the conservatives don't deliver brexit as was voted for, I can see a surprise happening at the ballot boxs in the near future.

Brexit is only the tip of the iceberg of my dissatisfaction. What of the pledge to limit imigration to the tens of thousands at the last two elections? It is still running in the hundreds of thousands. What happened to the traditional maifesto pledges on law and order? They seem to have been absent from manifestos for a while as we slide into anarchy. Were we promised more PC? Well we get it year on year.  Did we get a say on our enormous Foreign Aid budget? When our society and services are crumbling? The current Conservative party are not fit for purpose and are a pathetic liberal shadow of their former selves. I have never felt more distrustful and alienated from our political choices and resultant politicians.

Inside or outside of europe, we won't have a country any more soon. At least not the one we want. We cannot contimue on the present course. Too many seemingly irreversible changes are being made without any democratic mandate to do so.

We need a healthy dose of populism in our politics. A new breed of politicians who's ideas resonate with the people, because they are of the people. Who will deliver. I don't know any PC liberals who agree with the current dogmas, even ones who by profession I would expect to be so. It's like we've been hijacked by an alien political class.

Edited August 26, 2018 by TriBsa

[pinfireman]

10 hours ago, AVB said:

Anybody read the latest fear story that the Grand National will be at risk because Irish  and French trainers won’t be able to bring their horses over! So what about all the horses that come over from Dubai every season? Last time I checked they weren’t I the EU and they manage OK. 

Ridiculous 

Who cares where the horses come from? So long as they can get a score of horses, line them up, and have a race......

The Project Fear story of lack of medical supplies if we do not give in to the EU is total garbage! Most of the world,s leading pharmaceutical companies are here in the UK. We hold patents on a huge number of different drugs! If we run short, so do they! It,s total rubbish!

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, TriBsa said:

Brexit is only the tip of the iceberg of my dissatisfaction. What of the pledge to limit imigration to the tens of thousands at the last two elections? It is still running in the hundreds of thousands. What happened to the traditional maifesto pledges on law and order? They seem to have been absent from manifestos for a while as we slide into anarchy. Were we promised more PC? Well we get it year on year.  Did we get a say on our enormous Foreign Aid budget? When our society and services are crumbling? The current Conservative party are not fit for purpose and are a pathetic liberal shadow of their former selves. I have never felt more distrustful and alienated from our political choices and resultant politicians.

Inside or outside of europe, we won't have a country any more soon. At least not the one we want. We cannot contimue on the present course. Too many seemingly irreversible changes are being made without any democratic mandate to do so.

We need a healthy dose of populism in our politics. A new breed of politicians who's ideas resonate with the people, because they are of the people. Who will deliver. I don't know any PC liberals who agree with the current dogmas, even ones who by profession I would expect to be so. It's like we've been hijacked by an alien political class.

Good post, I think populism is really another word for the rise of the masses dissatisfaction at the unaccountable political class.

[old man]

19 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Having attended the 'count' in the past as an observer, and papers deemed by the counters (who are local council officials/clerks in normal life) - no notice at all is taken of any 'spoiled papers'.  They are just another statistic.  Even the counters don't bother to read what is on them.

I have no doubt about that John as everyone who doesn't subscribe to the official lines on everything seems to be treated with contempt or ignored.

I have had the misfortune to have to contact 2 different council departments recently concerning different items. A complete waste of time as they seem to have their own unswerving agendas which have no resemblance to service for the community. Just ticking little boxes then waiting for home time. They would feel at home in Brussels.