Brexit - merged threads

[Rewulf]

[JohnfromUK]

29 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

The Irish border is a non issue dreamt up bu the EU elite to promote fear of more trouble in Ireland, as I have said before, our stance sholud have always been, 'we will not be putting in place a hard border end of story', if the EU want to force Ireland to do so then that is for them and the Republic of Ireland to discuss.

I agree with much of your post, but as indicated from my quote of your post above, that is not quite the whole story; if there is no border, then anyone in the EU including their migrants from everywhere that Merkel is welcoming can go freely to Ireland (within the EU) and walk across the border into the UK (Northern Ireland).  So if we want controls on immigration, we would want a border - at least in some way for passport checks etc.

[Retsdon]

A good article..."The U.K. Government has struck a deal that allows Britain to have its cake and eat it - but the cake tastes so disgusting that no-one wants to eat it".  https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2018/11/16/the-brutal-reality-of-brexit/#6c39e64f5fb1

[Rewulf]

9 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I agree with much of your post, but as indicated from my quote of your post above, that is not quite the whole story; if there is no border, then anyone in the EU including their migrants from everywhere that Merkel is welcoming can go freely to Ireland (within the EU) and walk across the border into the UK (Northern Ireland).  So if we want controls on immigration, we would want a border - at least in some way for passport checks etc.

How many illegal migrants do that now ?
Rather than climb under a moving lorry at Calais.

If illegals can use 'free movement' to travel through Europe to get to Calais ect, why dont they just travel to Eire, then claim asylum once theyve walked over the NI border ?
They dont , because they cant get on ships and planes ect without documentation, which leaves a digital  footprint, making their application null and void.
They need to magically 'appear' in the UK, then 'forget' how they got here.

If they had any sense, they would apply for asylum in the first safe country, bag EU citizenship, then use those privileges to travel freely to the promised land.
The problem is we are that stupid we ignore all those illegal activities and let them in anyway !
The latest is , they are stealing small boats in France and Belgium, and sailing across the Channel.
 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Rewulf
Typo

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I see Sharmishta Chakrabarti, Baroness Chakrabarti is doing the rounds now!

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I see Sharmishta Chakrabarti, Baroness Chakrabarti is doing the rounds now!

Damn, that womans an annoying, self righteous harpie !

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, RockySpears said:

  I have a feeling a Hard Brexit has always been on the table, maybe even the intention.

  No way the EU was going to let us go easy, it might encourage others.

The current proposal , for me, fell flat on its face with the intention that we need the EU's permission/approval to end the backstop.  The difference between N. Ireland and the rest of the UK for customs was always going to be a non-starter too.

  So, given that just those two items were in the proposal means, to my mind, that someone, somewhere, wanted the proposal rejected, and given the apparent lack of time to renegotiate, a Hard Brexit would ensue.

Just my 2d worth,

 

RS

 

I like the idea of a hard Brexit, its going to be a bit bumpy but its a lot better than the rubbish deal they are trying to sell us at the moment.

[pinfireman]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Great post Newbie 

Absoluteley bang on ! Great post!

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

I agree with much of your post, but as indicated from my quote of your post above, that is not quite the whole story; if there is no border, then anyone in the EU including their migrants from everywhere that Merkel is welcoming can go freely to Ireland (within the EU) and walk across the border into the UK (Northern Ireland).  So if we want controls on immigration, we would want a border - at least in some way for passport checks etc.

Correct !Make it an Irish / EU problem !

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

How many illegal migrants do that now ?
Rather than climb under a moving lorry at Calais.

If illegals can use 'free movement' to travel through Europe to get to Calais ect, why dont they just travel to Eire, then claim asylum once theyve walked over the NI border ?
They dont , because they cant get on ships and planes ect without documentation, which leaves a digital  footprint, making their application null and void.
They need to magically 'appear' in the UK, then 'forget' how they got here.

If they had any sense, they would apply for asylum in the first safe country, bag EU citizenship, then use those privileges to travel freely to the promised land.
The problem is we are that stupid we ignore all those illegal activities and let them in anyway !
The latest is , they are stealing small boats in France and Belgium, and sailing across the Channel.
 

Sink the boats!

40 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I see Sharmishta Chakrabarti, Baroness Chakrabarti is doing the rounds now!

What does Shameless Chuckabuttie have to say that is worth listening to?  Answer...........NOTHING! She is the one who got a seat in the Lords by whitewashing an anti-semitism investigation in Oxford University Labour Party!

[scouser]

On the local radio, a professor of politics said the negotiations where like a talk between a canary and a cat,and we were the ones with the feathers, we needed a thatcher or a trump to do the talking and give them the two finger salute.

[pinfireman]

11 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I like the idea of a hard Brexit, its going to be a bit bumpy but its a lot better than the rubbish deal they are trying to sell us at the moment.

We went through 2 World Wars,, Korean War, the dismantling of Empire, Falklands War, 30 years of the Troubles in Northern Ireland etc etc.................so why should we fear a "bumpy road" for a coupkle of years! This is all about big business losing a few pounds of profit!  A No Deal, WTO Brexit now!

[Dave-G]

I'm wondering if the EU has already secretly decided amongst their membership that they really WILL build their EU only army and our Govm't thinks we'll be be taken by it at some future date if we leave. 

 

[yod dropper]

These sort of items crop up now and then. (From the credible Morningstar financial wesbite, not the incredible Morning Star communist publication).

"Eurozone's Days are Numbered"

Mike Ingram, chief market strategist at WH Ireland is calling time on the eurozone, saying it is fundamentally “dead” – although it could take decades to disband

http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/news/171788/eurozones-days-are-numbered.aspx?ut=2

 

Meanwhile and ironically seeing that so many Corbyn supporters are Remainers. We're still told it will be some sort of economic armageddon if we leave on WTO rules so with Corbyn's Labour in power it will be even worse than that.

Corbyn Bigger Threat to UK Stocks than Brexit

http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/news/171890/corbyn-bigger-threat-to-uk-stocks-than-brexit.aspx?ut=2

Edited November 16, 2018 by yod dropper

[ShootingEgg]

12 minutes ago, yod dropper said:

Corbyn Bigger Threat to UK Stocks than Brexit

This is true and scary.... 

[Dave-G]

I'll never vote Conservative again unless we leave.

Seems that to avoid Labour getting in we have to vote Con - but that really is a CON leading them to think they can just do as they like instead of honouring election mandates and going against what their own electorates supported them for.  Maybe they know their time is up anyway.

Its UKIP for me in future even if that means Labour screws our country more than europe does. As long as any Tory that dumped on their voters I'll feel justice has been served if they get dumped at the next election

.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Dave-G

[Retsdon]

38 minutes ago, yod dropper said:

These sort of items crop up now and then. (From the credible Morningstar financial wesbite, not the incredible Morning Star communist publication).

"Eurozone's Days are Numbered"

Mike Ingram, chief market strategist at WH Ireland is calling time on the eurozone, saying it is fundamentally “dead” – although it could take decades to disband

http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/news/171788/eurozones-days-are-numbered.aspx?ut=2

 

Meanwhile and ironically seeing that so many Corbyn supporters are Remainers. We're still told it will be some sort of economic armageddon if we leave on WTO rules so with Corbyn's Labour in power it will be even worse than that.

Corbyn Bigger Threat to UK Stocks than Brexit

http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/news/171890/corbyn-bigger-threat-to-uk-stocks-than-brexit.aspx?ut=2

Who's that woman in the background looking over Corbyn's shoulder?

[oowee]

5 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

I agree with much of your post, but as indicated from my quote of your post above, that is not quite the whole story; if there is no border, then anyone in the EU including their migrants from everywhere that Merkel is welcoming can go freely to Ireland (within the EU) and walk across the border into the UK (Northern Ireland).  So if we want controls on immigration, we would want a border - at least in some way for passport checks etc.

So maybe that's the starting point. We want a border to protect little Britain so we have to start with a new good Friday agreement. ? 

Or we accept customs union? 

Or we..........? 

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

So maybe that's the starting point. We want a border to protect little Britain so we have to start with a new good Friday agreement. ? 

Or we accept customs union? 

Or we..........? 

Did you miss the bit where I said, if theres no problem now, why would there be a problem then ?
How many illegal immigrants have been known to get into the UK via Eire, hardly any .

[Retsdon]

8 minutes ago, oowee said:

So maybe that's the starting point. We want a border to protect little Britain so we have to start with a new good Friday agreement. ? 

Or we accept customs union? 

Or we..........? 

...persuade the Northern Irish that unification with the south is in their best interests? £10 billion saved, and a wet border. So no need for customs unions or any of that stuff either. An win / win result. What's not to like?

Edited November 16, 2018 by Retsdon

[Rewulf]

Just now, Retsdon said:

...pursuade the Northern Irish that unification with the south is in their best interests? £10 billion saved, and a wet border. No  need for customs unions or any of that stuff...

Then watch the north descend into sectarian violence, the resurgence of all factions, weapons dug up , multiple atrocities and death ,creating an economic basket case both sides of the border,
Blame the British and Brexit, large economic aid package from the UK , and UN peacekeepers to keep them apart, fences and wall again.
Sorted.

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Then watch the north descend into sectarian violence, the resurgence of all factions, weapons dug up , multiple atrocities and death ,creating an economic basket case both sides of the border,
Blame the British and Brexit, large economic aid package from the UK , and UN peacekeepers to keep them apart, fences and wall again.
Sorted.

Certainly we would look to the Tory right and the Brexit voters, or at least those that knew what they were voting for. 

 

[Retsdon]

I said persuade...... Anyway, I was 80% joking. Logic never does well in some quarters...

 

[oowee]

Just now, Retsdon said:

I said persuade...... Anyway, I was 80% joking. Logic never does well in some quarters...

 

Seriously it is hard to see a way forward with the border question. 

[Yellow Bear]

6 hours ago, Rewulf said:

If illegals can use 'free movement' to travel through Europe to get to Calais ect, why dont they just travel to Eire

Because Sorros is not paying for there ships to do it     -     Yet

[Retsdon]

9 minutes ago, oowee said:

Seriously it is hard to see a way forward with the border question. 

There's no way forward. To be honest, this government has already been getting uncomfortably close to doing violence to the Good Friday Agreement with its reliance on the DUP for a parliamentary majority. The Westminster government is supposed to be neutral - it's written into the Agreement. And then to compound it, a grouping of N.I. non-unionist MPs were recently refused an audience with the P.M. to discuss their concerns about that, and upcoming Brexit. That's not how it's supposed to work.

But we'll see. Northern Ireland voted 56%-44% to remain in the EU. Times do change from time to time. Certainly were there to be another vote with the choices of Hard Exit, May's Plan, or Remain, I don't mind betting that Remain would win in N.I. by a landslide. Then what? 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Retsdon

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Because Sorros is not paying for there ships to do it     -     Yet

The refugee NGO ships have been rumbled for the time being, he literally cast them adrift when it became obvious who was financing them.

4 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

But we'll see. Northern Ireland voted 56%-44% to remain in the EU. Times do change from time to time. Certainly were there to be another vote with the choices of Hard Exit, May's Plan, or Remain, I don't mind betting that Remain would win in N.I. by a landslide. Then what? 

But..but ..the EU said its imperative to preserve the good friday agreement ??
If Ireland reunifies , much to the disgust of the Unionists, what becomes of it then ?
If you dont know the answer to that question, youre not paying attention.