Docleo Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 Why an extreme bird is 60£? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, Docleo said: Why an extreme bird is 60£? It’s a quid for every yard it drops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Docleo said: Why an extreme bird is 60£? because the runners need paying for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, Perazzishot said: Think if you watch the film you will find Gerwyn is using Steel at Brigands! Steel, with even less energy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Perazzishot said: Think if you watch the film you will find Gerwyn is using Steel at Brigands! With super markets starting to say they will only sell game that has been shot with non-toxic shot the end of lead shot for game shooting is fast approaching. Difficult to judge the height of the birds on the film, and as has been said easy to over estimate the height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: With super markets starting to say they will only sell game that has been shot with non-toxic shot the end of lead shot for game shooting is fast approaching. Difficult to judge the height of the birds on the film, and as has been said easy to over estimate the height. It is very difficult to cleanly kill with steel at even 60 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 36 minutes ago, button said: Believe everything I'm told? What makes you say that? Has Dave at Kelton not seen him shoot and commented or did he make it up too? Limiting factor a cartridge? Give a poor shot the right cartridge still won't bring the birds down! 36 minutes ago, button said: Believe everything I'm told? What makes you say that? Has Dave at Kelton not seen him shoot and commented or did he make it up too? Limiting factor a cartridge? Give a poor shot the right cartridge still won't bring the birds down! Yes and picked up behind Dave Carrie. As proof you will see my few seconds of fame, or rather one of my dogs, on one of his videos. As I have previously said whatever ballistics say I see good guns consistently killing extreme birds on the three days a week that I am out. In fairness I also see ill equipped and less talented guns missing shot after shot or not putting the gun up at all to extreme birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) This is making that .17 HMR at 900 yards positively believable. 26 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said: Yes and picked up behind Dave Carrie. As proof you will see my few seconds of fame, or rather one of my dogs, on one of his videos. As I have previously said whatever ballistics say I see good guns consistently killing extreme birds on the three days a week that I am out. In fairness I also see ill equipped and less talented guns missing shot after shot or not putting the gun up at all to extreme birds. Whatever ballistics say ? You mean you disbelieve factual data in favour of hero worship ? 300 down for 2300 shots is not consistent. Talent can not overcome lack of density or lack of sufficient kinetic energy. It’s random pellets connecting vital areas once in a while being mistaken for skill. Edited November 12, 2019 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said: Yes and picked up behind Dave Carrie. As proof you will see my few seconds of fame, or rather one of my dogs, on one of his videos. As I have previously said whatever ballistics say I see good guns consistently killing extreme birds on the three days a week that I am out. In fairness I also see ill equipped and less talented guns missing shot after shot or not putting the gun up at all to extreme birds. The neigh slaighers won't believe you, don't waste your time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 48 minutes ago, button said: Believe everything I'm told? What makes you say that? Has Dave at Kelton not seen him shoot and commented or did he make it up too? Limiting factor a cartridge? Give a poor shot the right cartridge still won't bring the birds down! Just because a few people say something, it doesn't then become fact. And yes, the limiting factor is the cartridge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 Sorry, I bow to your superior knowledge, your clearly one of the resident experts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, button said: Sorry, I bow to your superior knowledge, your clearly one of the resident experts So you don't think the cartridge is the limiting factor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, motty said: So you don't think the cartridge is the limiting factor? No, granted it's a factor but it's the ability of the person pulling the trigger is the limiting factor IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 😂😂 next year we’ll be having 135 yarders being folded in the air then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, button said: No, granted it's a factor but it's the ability of the person pulling the trigger is the limiting factor IMO You can get the correct line, correct lead and pull the trigger but if what goes up has insufficient energy and quantity of shot then when it gets to the space the bird enters it may miss the bird or not penetrate the bird to ensure a clean kill so yes then the cartridge is the limiting factor. i am not saying skill of the shooter is not an important factor but both need to work together, otherwise why are they not all shooting 12gram of six shot via a .410 Each to their own but the biggest winners are the cartridge industry and the extreme shoots the big losers are the injured birds that must fly on looking like they were missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, button said: No, granted it's a factor but it's the ability of the person pulling the trigger is the limiting factor IMO It isn't. The best shot in the world, getting each pheasant in the centre of the pattern, will be limited by how good the cartridge is. As has already been mentioned, a 4 bore with a 3 oz load would be a suitable combination for 90 yard pheasants. Edited November 12, 2019 by motty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perazzishot Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 The same few who shoot bits of paper keep making the same point using outdated data and facts. we are getting new cartridges to try every week and firing between 300-500 on a shoot day we see the developments with each batch. Not 3 shots at a bit of paper but results in the field from all the manufacturers firing hundreds At pattern plates and through chronographs. cant really say anymore than that. Also you quote 2300 for 300 I also said a gun had 300 shots and shot zero. So actually 2000 for 300, that’s a hell of lot of lucky pellets and cartridges not performing. I saw a shoot card from yesterday normal shoot nothing really over 40yds do 1200 shots for a 150 why? Windspeed they turned the good team of guns inside out. Height is one way to beat a gun so is speed does that change the dynamics of sportsmanship? Should they stop shooting because it was too challenging in the wind? Obviously the cartridges they were using are to blame as they weren’t fast enough to compensate for the extra speed! And all those pricked birds in the **** because they were behind everything! Have a read of some of the nonsense written in this thread it is hard to believe some of the folk commenting ever shoot live game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Perazzishot said: The same few who shoot bits of paper keep making the same point using outdated data and facts. we are getting new cartridges to try every week and firing between 300-500 on a shoot day we see the developments with each batch. Not 3 shots at a bit of paper but results in the field from all the manufacturers firing hundreds At pattern plates and through chronographs. cant really say anymore than that. Also you quote 2300 for 300 I also said a gun had 300 shots and shot zero. So actually 2000 for 300, that’s a hell of lot of lucky pellets and cartridges not performing. I saw a shoot card from yesterday normal shoot nothing really over 40yds do 1200 shots for a 150 why? Windspeed they turned the good team of guns inside out. Height is one way to beat a gun so is speed does that change the dynamics of sportsmanship? Should they stop shooting because it was too challenging in the wind? Obviously the cartridges they were using are to blame as they weren’t fast enough to compensate for the extra speed! And all those pricked birds in the **** because they were behind everything! Have a read of some of the nonsense written in this thread it is hard to believe some of the folk commenting ever shoot live game! Don't waste your time, this is just going round in circles, you clearly make everything up and I believe everything I'm told! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) As a matter of interest, seeing as many of these birds are being shot at in positions other than straight overhead, what kind of holdover are you guys applying ? It needs to be fairly substantial and noticeable by the shooter otherwise you’re wasting most of that already wasted pattern . Sorry to get all technical but I do like to keep learning. Edited November 12, 2019 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, button said: Don't waste your time, this is just going round in circles, you clearly make everything up and I believe everything I'm told! at last Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, andrewluke said: at last At last what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, button said: Don't waste your time, this is just going round in circles, you clearly make everything up and I believe everything I'm told! No, come on, have an actual debate. I am interested to see what these amazing new developments in cartridges are. How many ways can the wheel be reinvented? I think the main crux of the matter is, the birds simply aren't all being shot at 80-90 yards. Most of the birds being addressed will most likely be shot at 60-70 yards. In my view that is fairly extreme, but at least very achievable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 May be in wrong but I have not read that all are getting shot at 80-90 yards I was taking it that it was 60 yards up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 29 minutes ago, button said: Don't waste your time, this is just going round in circles, you clearly make everything up and I believe everything I'm told! As noted above, all Hull or their shooters have to simply provide a single photo of at 60 yards, 70 yards or 80 yards that tge claim is that the cartridges are effective with a pattern meeting the minimum requirements of circa 100 pellets in a 30 inch circle with one of their 'super' loadings. Until that happens, people will quite rightly be sceptical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 27 minutes ago, Perazzishot said: The same few who shoot bits of paper keep making the same point using outdated data and facts. we are getting new cartridges to try every week and firing between 300-500 on a shoot day we see the developments with each batch. Not 3 shots at a bit of paper but results in the field from all the manufacturers firing hundreds At pattern plates and through chronographs. cant really say anymore than that. Also you quote 2300 for 300 I also said a gun had 300 shots and shot zero. So actually 2000 for 300, that’s a hell of lot of lucky pellets and cartridges not performing. I saw a shoot card from yesterday normal shoot nothing really over 40yds do 1200 shots for a 150 why? Windspeed they turned the good team of guns inside out. Height is one way to beat a gun so is speed does that change the dynamics of sportsmanship? Should they stop shooting because it was too challenging in the wind? Obviously the cartridges they were using are to blame as they weren’t fast enough to compensate for the extra speed! And all those pricked birds in the **** because they were behind everything! Have a read of some of the nonsense written in this thread it is hard to believe some of the folk commenting ever shoot live game! Perazzishot, with due respect that is rubbish, “new cartridges every week”. their is nothing new with cartridges, you are using the same round lead ball that has been used since the days of muzzle loaders. They have the same limitations as they they have always had, ie poor Ballistic Coefficient. ok the propellant is now nitro cellulose not black powder and muzzle velocity is 1450ft/sec not 1050, but due to the poor Ballistic Coefficient this extra velocity is quickly lost. wads you say are fibre so nothing special their and I would bet if you cut open your latest super high bird cartridge it would have the same Fibre wad as your budget clay cartridge (excluding Eley and gamebore wool wads) as their are only three fibre wad manufactures. You say lots of lucky pellets I say a lot of birds that were not really at 80 to 90 yards but 50 to 60yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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