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spurs 14

Simulated game day

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Hi all little while back asked about sim days had some good advice , the enemy bless her bought me one for Christmas, good bit of advice was about using a lighter cartridge, what would your go to size be , normally use a 28g for clays , thinking maybe 21g or 24 g , what’s your thoughts ? Thanks 

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I use Hull Comp X 21g for clays.  Inexpensive and seem to perform very well for me.  Note for a simulated game day, you may need to use fibre wads.  Comp X 21g is available in both fibre and plastic.

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If you are using a s/s, you will also need a glove of hand guard for the left hand - to protect from hot barrels.

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You may want to check if the Rib on your gun is soldered or braised. There have been cases of ribs coming loose due to the heat of the barrels. (not just on sxs either!)

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3 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said:

due to the heat of the barrels.

If they got that hot they would melt plastic cased cartridges.  'Ordinary' plumbers and electrical solder is about 190 Centigrade, hard solder, silver solder about 400 Centigrade - brazing similar.

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Thanks guys looks like 21g will be the way to go , don’t think heat build up will be too big a problem , they were saying it’s normally around 250 cartridges fired , but that is spread over five drives I believe , cheers 

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1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

If they got that hot they would melt plastic cased cartridges.  'Ordinary' plumbers and electrical solder is about 190 Centigrade, hard solder, silver solder about 400 Centigrade - brazing similar.

Im only quoting what i was told by someone, who's full time job is repairing them and has repaired hundreds. Maybe i misunderstood and the ribs start to peel off due to the different expansion rate of the barrels/solder/rib? But he definitely said that the soldered ribs suffer on big simulated days.

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When I have done them I use about 30 - 50 cartridges a drive through an AyA No 1 s/s.  Gets very hot, but not damaged gun so far!

1 minute ago, silver pigeon69 said:

the ribs start to peel off due to the different expansion rate of the barrels/solder/rib?

That seems much more likely.  In fact soft solder is quite 'flexible'.  Harder solders less so.

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3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

When I have done them I use about 30 - 50 cartridges a drive through an AyA No 1 s/s.  Gets very hot, but not damaged gun so far!

I believe AYA's are silver soldered

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19 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

If they got that hot they would melt plastic cased cartridges.  'Ordinary' plumbers and electrical solder is about 190 Centigrade, hard solder, silver solder about 400 Centigrade - brazing similar.

I am no expert but just done a bit of research on t'net and general opinion is that the "soft soldered" ribs, especially Perrazi will melt if shot too much.

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5 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said:

I believe AYA's are silver soldered

I think you are probably right.  I do know someone who used a nice old English gun on a simulated day where cartridges were provided - but they were 2 3/4" cartridges and he fire a lot of them through a 2 1/2" chambered gun ............ and had a bill that would have bought a couple of good days real game shooting for his troubles!

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1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

I think you are probably right.  I do know someone who used a nice old English gun on a simulated day where cartridges were provided - but they were 2 3/4" cartridges and he fire a lot of them through a 2 1/2" chambered gun ............ and had a bill that would have bought a couple of good days real game shooting for his troubles!

But your reasoning, about the plastic cartridges melting, seems valid and would like to know from some of our experts on here why they don't?

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4 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said:

I am no expert but just done a bit of research on t'net and general opinion is that the "soft soldered" ribs, especially Perrazi will melt if shot too much.

I have to say - I think I would not want to handle a gun with my fingers that close to a temperature that would melt (even soft) solder.  My AyA barrels were hot - but well below water boiling point (we tried a little drop from a water bottle!).  I'm guessing they were 60 to 70 Centigrade (roughly the temperature of a heating system 'flow' pipe).

Edited by JohnfromUK

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Ive had the fore end scorched on my O/U, so it can get hot enough to do that, i stupidly forgot to take my thermometer, couldnt believe :) it i left it out on the work top too. 

 

See if you can get someone to load for you, that will get your barrels hot.. 

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3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I have to say - I think I would not want to handle a gun with my fingers that close to a temperature that would melt (even soft) solder.  My AyA barrels were hot - but well below water boiling point (we tried a little drop form a water bottle!).  I'm guessing they were 60 to 70 Centigrade.

Me neither! I would imagine that the ones that it happens too, may have been badly soldered in the first place?

 

4 minutes ago, Dougy said:

Ive had the fore end scorched on my O/U, so it can get hot enough to do that, i stupidly forgot to take my thermometer, couldnt believe :) it i left it out on the work top too. 

 

See if you can get someone to load for you, that will get your barrels hot.. 

Be interesting to see what temperatures are reached

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Depends on how many you fire! If a slab or so id say use normal 28 gr. I used 800 mix of 24g and 28gr once in my 3800 trap at Stoke Farm salisbury and was ok.

Temperature of the gun is nothing to worry about. Think of Argentina dove shooting where you may fire 3000 a day and how hot those semi autos get!

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Rock pigeon shooting in South Africa with borrowed SxS guns and my mate kept on using the water from his supplied cool box to pour on his gun so as to be able to hold it and carry on shooting.

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14 minutes ago, strimmer_13 said:

Are they expensive? Or on par with the equivalent amount via a local clay ground?

It could be 150 to 200, ish-- 

 

But, its a cracking day, not a weekly session something i would say you could do once a year as a special occasion. 

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7 hours ago, spurs 14 said:

Thanks guys looks like 21g will be the way to go , don’t think heat build up will be too big a problem , they were saying it’s normally around 250 cartridges fired , but that is spread over five drives I believe , cheers 

I Do this regularly and fifty cartridges rattled off quickly will get the barrels hot enough to burn your hands. Take thin leather gloves.

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1 hour ago, strimmer_13 said:

Are they expensive? Or on par with the equivalent amount via a local clay ground?

Hi thanks for all the advice and tips 

 

above           If you mean the day I’m not 100% as it was a pressie but I believe it was around £170 , which I guess is dearer than just clays at a ground , but never done one before so it will be an experience , and much cheaper than an actual game shoot , 

 it’s a start with bacon rolls , coffee, then on to the drives , five in all with a stop for snacks then it ends with drinks and a steak dinner 

I thought it sounded good value , looking forward to it but it’s not til end of March 

 

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