Lead ban & BASC

[Nmb]

On reflection I think this may be best for shooting as a whole.

I have shot steel at clays and game and because I had no idea of its limitations at the time I just shot them and didn’t really think they were too bad. 
While it may take a bit of getting used to it’s just something we will all have to get on with.

manufacturers and shops rely on having products that are on trend or needed at the present time and I’m sure we will see a huge increase in steel and eco friendly cartridges in the near future as it’s just the way the world is going.

Im 30 this year and many of my shooting friends around my age feel that we will see shooting end easily within our lifetime. This is a sad thought but it almost seems inevitable.

The change to eco friendly shot and cartridges may inconvenience people but In my opinion we all need to stand together and fight for the future of our sport as a whole and not be looked at in a hundred years as the last of a dying breed. This is a change but it might just help game be sold more easily and perhaps stem the tide at least for a little while.  
 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Nmb

[Old farrier]

1 minute ago, ClemFandango said:

It does apply to rifle ammunition. Lots of people and organisations are using non lead rifle ammo for thay reason. 

Oops my mistake apologies 

I’ll order my next batch of 22 rim fire in none toxic 

[motty]

50 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Explain how if I have only the one gun, that is fixed choked 3/4 and FULL that I use for clays at DTL and Double Rise that I can shoot steel through it please? All the information I've seen on the internet says do not use steel shot in barrels over 1/2 choke. It can't use steel!

The pigeons and pheasants that I shoot either get eaten by me, or friends, or shared between the guns and the beaters? None are sold and so none of them leave UK shores. Those that want them sold in the EU then let them use non-toxic. I am not my brother's keeper!

So your gun is fixed 3/4 and full? Sounds like a nice ounce of steel 6s or similar would be a good load for trap shooting. I would 100% use steel in your gun. Considering I use at least 4mm steel in my fixed full chokes guns, you should be fine!

I'm not sure that clay shooting will be affected by this proposed ban, anyhow.

[rbrowning2]

1 minute ago, lancer425 said:

rbrowning2 stop fretting about stuff, its covered just about already has been more or less 20 years now.  We will see wads come on sale before much longer, and soon as they do we will all be incorporating them in reloads, and factories will be using them in comercial loads. B&P Galandi ETC will be on this all ready, i doubt we will get to the season before one or even more bio option is available to us.

Let’s hope so, I have no issue with using steel shot, however I cannot afford bismuth. 
shall we have a small bet if B&P or Gaulandi (other than their photo degradable wad) offer a biodegradable wad in 28ga by the start of the 2020 season I will donate £20.00 to a charity of your choice if they don’t you donate £20.00 to the charity of my choice.

 

 

[motty]

10 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

rbrowning2 stop fretting about stuff, its covered just about already has been more or less 20 years now.  We will see wads come on sale before much longer, and soon as they do we will all be incorporating them in reloads, and factories will be using them in comercial loads. B&P Galandi ETC will be on this all ready, i doubt we will get to the season before one or even more bio option is available to us.

I totally agree. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that new wads are being tested right now!

[Scully]

18 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

But not for 28gauge which due to a poor shoulder I shoot mostly, unless you can point me in the direction of them.

so as I see it I can only shoot expensive bismuth if I am to comply with the voluntary ban at this time.

i would shoot steel but don’t know of any manufacture loading it in 28ga as I don’t think any wads are made for steel shot in 28ga yet alone biodegradable ones so I guess I have the five years transition period to continue with lead until the technology arrives.

so if I was to shoot at a location where they state steel shot only to comply with the voluntary ban I assume I would either get turned away or told to carry on which would then but lead shot game in the bag.
28ga is quite popular with game shooters I know as rather than pushing to the limits with extreme high birds they prefer to challenge themselves with a smaller gauge gun at sensible birds.

 

 

There are another five years for development yet! I don't know anything about 28bore wads but what is stopping you from just carrying on as normal for now? Simply don't allow your shot birds to enter the bag if that bag is destined for commercial use. I could understand how this may be difficult if you were on a big bag day, but we all know how you feel about them so it isn't very likely. If this isn't possible then can you not use the gun you use when you're not 'mostly' shooting your 28 bore? If it were me I'd just get an auto; I have seen many in use on syndicate days by those with shoulder problems. Problem solved. 

[Guest cookoff013]

Removed. Because i cant read

Edited February 25, 2020 by cookoff013

[Scully]

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

Explain how if I have only the one gun, that is fixed choked 3/4 and FULL that I use for clays at DTL and Double Rise that I can shoot steel through it please? All the information I've seen on the internet says do not use steel shot in barrels over 1/2 choke. It can't use steel!

The pigeons and pheasants that I shoot either get eaten by me, or friends, or shared between the guns and the beaters? None are sold and so none of them leave UK shores. Those that want them sold in the EU then let them use non-toxic. I am not my brother's keeper!

I own two trap guns, one fixed at full/full, the other at full/extra full. I use them for sporting clays and live quarry. Neither are proofed for steel ( one is an old Winchester 8500 the other an even older ( I think ) Remington 3200 ) but I have absolutely no qualms about putting steel through them after checking with the NGO that since this latest news, I will still be covered if anything untoward happens whilst doing so, on the understanding I'm using 'standard' and not 'HP' steel. Insurance will not cover me for anything other than that which has been approved by the relevant body, no matter what I think about that. 🙂

I still don't agree with him about the lead shot in food though. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

8 hours ago, lancer425 said:

Just buy duck loads  for now until they print game and pigeon on them latter. If you want to try steel and not sure what to buy. here is a few you should be able to get nearly everywhere. Gamebore super steel 32 gram, they work ok buy them in 4s or 5s for i am guessing pigeons.

 You can buy some super steels in 24gram &28 gram , skip the 24gram buy the 28 gram bit faster hit that bit harder my opinion. you can get these in 7s close into decoys they will work. for use on clays but still called super steel.

  other to look out far are Rcs NSI"gone now but might find a slab"  Saaga steel not tried any recent, but the mid 200s saggas were good killers / patternibng . i remember. Might be a eley steel that works ok but , i can not say, never used any. mostly reload but seen good reults with steel i acctualy love solway steel by hull. yet i would not thank you for their hullsteel lighter loads. its like any ammo suck it and see see what its patterning like try it in a fewc guns or / chokes see how it ends up.

hello, thanks, just carts have some Gamebore super steel 28g 7.5s at £180 1000, i think the 32g will be to much for my light O/U, i use 7.5s 28g lead carts all the time, my O/U is steel proof but will look at what chokes suitable, cheers

[lancer425]

29 minutes ago, cookoff013 said:

Removed. Because i cant read

But you would if you could, some can and wont.

[Guest cookoff013]

A few years ago 28g #9 steel was the skeet cartridge of choice !

[rbrowning2]

19 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, thanks, just carts have some Gamebore super steel 28g 7.5s at £180 1000, i think the 32g will be to much for my light O/U, i use 7.5s 28g lead carts all the time, my O/U is steel proof but will look at what chokes suitable, cheers

28gm 7.5s in steel is equivalent to shot size 9.5 in lead may be a little small for use on live quarry?  Plus not in a biodegradable wad, but very, very few are at present. They do a 24gm in 7.5 Steel shot which is in fibre cups but they are £250 again on just cartridges.

[Westley]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

I own two trap guns, one fixed at full/full, the other at full/extra full. I use them for sporting clays and live quarry. Neither are proofed for steel ( one is an old Winchester 8500 the other an even older ( I think ) Remington 3200 ) but I have absolutely no qualms about putting steel through them after checking with the NGO that since this latest news, I will still be covered if anything untoward happens whilst doing so, on the understanding I'm using 'standard' and not 'HP' steel. Insurance will not cover me for anything other than that which has been approved by the relevant body, no matter what I think about that. 🙂

I still don't agree with him about the lead shot in food though. 

Ah yes, I remember you buying that 'poor man's Kreighoff '       🤤

[Scully]

5 minutes ago, Westley said:

Ah yes, I remember you buying that 'poor man's Kreighoff '       🤤

😃👍

[Smokersmith]

1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said:

Let’s hope so, I have no issue with using steel shot, however I cannot afford bismuth. 
shall we have a small bet if B&P or Gaulandi (other than their photo degradable wad) offer a biodegradable wad in 28ga by the start of the 2020 season I will donate £20.00 to a charity of your choice if they don’t you donate £20.00 to the charity of my choice.

 

 

THEY DONT HAVE TO ... NOR YOU

USE LEAD AND ENJOY!!!!

Look again in 4 years time.

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

I own two trap guns, one fixed at full/full, the other at full/extra full. I use them for sporting clays and live quarry. Neither are proofed for steel ( one is an old Winchester 8500 the other an even older ( I think ) Remington 3200 )

 

Them Remington 3200s is bad ju ju. I knew a bloke was A magnet for women they went weak at the knees. then he bought a rem 3200 , he lost all his hair put on 7 stone and lost all his teeth in a night. I have been inoculated against 3200itis. you need to sell me that Remington3200...Quick before your hair drops out..   

[McSpredder]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

Simply don't allow your shot birds to enter the bag if that bag is destined for commercial use.

If you kill a bird using steel shot, it might already be carrying one or more lead pellets that have caused no obvious injury.  

Are there any metal detector experts on the forum?   Is there any reasonably priced equipment that can identify lead (whole pellets and/or smaller fragments) in a carcase?  

[mick miller]

I estimate 18 months before the softening up for the use of copper monolithics commences.. 

[motty]

2 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

28gm 7.5s in steel is equivalent to shot size 9.5 in lead may be a little small for use on live quarry?  Plus not in a biodegradable wad, but very, very few are at present. They do a 24gm in 7.5 Steel shot which is in fibre cups but they are £250 again on just cartridges.

I have killed quite a few pigeons with 7.5 steel. I have also killed quite a few pigeons with lead 9s.

[PeterHenry]

1 minute ago, McSpredder said:

If you kill a bird using steel shot, it might already be carrying one or more lead pellets that have caused no obvious injury.  

Are there any metal detector experts on the forum?   Is there any reasonably priced equipment that can identify lead (whole pellets and/or smaller fragments) in a carcase?  

I'm sure that given the five year phase out being discussed, that the number of birds carring lead shot in them that make it to the market will not be that great. 

If the cartridge manufacturers get on board and curtail the lead cartridges available - the sheer volume of shooting on the big estates (where this is likely to be otherwise a problem)  will ensure it would be an insignificant number that reach the market. 

Apologies if that does not read too easily, it's been a long day.

[motty]

2 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, thanks, just carts have some Gamebore super steel 28g 7.5s at £180 1000, i think the 32g will be to much for my light O/U, i use 7.5s 28g lead carts all the time, my O/U is steel proof but will look at what chokes suitable, cheers

Use any choke with those loads.

[PeterHenry]

3 hours ago, Nmb said:

On reflection I think this may be best for shooting as a whole.

I have shot steel at clays and game and because I had no idea of its limitations at the time I just shot them and didn’t really think they were too bad. 
While it may take a bit of getting used to it’s just something we will all have to get on with.

manufacturers and shops rely on having products that are on trend or needed at the present time and I’m sure we will see a huge increase in steel and eco friendly cartridges in the near future as it’s just the way the world is going.

Im 30 this year and many of my shooting friends around my age feel that we will see shooting end easily within our lifetime. This is a sad thought but it almost seems inevitable.

The change to eco friendly shot and cartridges may inconvenience people but In my opinion we all need to stand together and fight for the future of our sport as a whole and not be looked at in a hundred years as the last of a dying breed. This is a change but it might just help game be sold more easily and perhaps stem the tide at least for a little while.  
 

 

I agree - I'm 32 this year, and as much as it's a blow and an inconvenience to loose lead, I would rather have a chance of a sport to pass onto any children (should I eventually get around to having some) than dig in for another few years and loose it all.

It's not just that I want to carry on with shooting for my own selfish reasons - although I do - but my father shot, my grandfather shot, my great grandfather shot - I imagine the previous generations shot as well, and before that they probably hunted.

Shooting isnt just a hobby or a sport - it's an entire culture - we have food, literature, customs and traditions, specialised language and art.

It's such an incredibly broad palate of things spanning centuries and before that, as a branch of hunting, millennia.

I have shelves full of books on shooting, fishing and hunting - spanning everything from comedy to instruction. It would be a genuine loss if in failing to adapt, we helped loose everything for future generations.

Edited February 25, 2020 by PeterHenry
Spelling

[oldypigeonpopper]

2 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

28gm 7.5s in steel is equivalent to shot size 9.5 in lead may be a little small for use on live quarry?  Plus not in a biodegradable wad, but very, very few are at present. They do a 24gm in 7.5 Steel shot which is in fibre cups but they are £250 again on just cartridges.

hello, thanks, ok i think your right on the shot size as i did not know that, will carry on with the usual carts until i check out more info, cheers

17 minutes ago, motty said:

Use any choke with those loads.

thanks to reply

[ClemFandango]

10 hours ago, Old farrier said:

Oops my mistake apologies 

I’ll order my next batch of 22 rim fire in none toxic 

CCI and Winchester both produce non lead .22lr ammunition. 

[Scully]

9 hours ago, lancer425 said:

Them Remington 3200s is bad ju ju. I knew a bloke was A magnet for women they went weak at the knees. then he bought a rem 3200 , he lost all his hair put on 7 stone and lost all his teeth in a night. I have been inoculated against 3200itis. you need to sell me that Remington3200...Quick before your hair drops out..   

Too late!