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2 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

"Silly"? Stu, Do explain. Why buy a small gauge gun then have to use Magnum cartridges to deliver a decent payload - the 28G throws 19gms (your average .410 3" load) with ease as well as producing a far better pattern.

Rubbish.   I get perfect patterns from my 410 with my homeloaded fibre wad 3 inch shells. There are only so many spaces in a 30 inch pattern for 19grms of #7s whether from a 410 or a 28g. The trick is the load and the choking.  In addition this last season in the last three or four weeks I shot some Fiocchi 3 inch #6s which had over shot cards and roll turnover. They killed consistently as good as my homeloads and again I believe it is down to the choking of the gun having run a few on a 35yrd card.  I shoot full and full all the time.

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The difference to the 12/20 bore is a 410 o/u is a beautifully light little gun to carry around with you and I can put a good mornings shells for driven shooting in one pocket and not know they are there. 

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38 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

The difference to the 12/20 bore is a 410 o/u is a beautifully light little gun to carry around with you and I can put a good mornings shells for driven shooting in one pocket and not know they are there. 

No, I was referring to it being like stuffing 1 and 1/8ths Oz  in a 20 bore. 

With the 410 home loads definitely seem to be an advantage. At 19g your really not far off that bottom end 12 bore load but going by your past posts I'm not doubting it works 👍

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The 28G is renowned for the quality of the pattern,end of. As for nobody stocking the 28G - most dealers are now happily flogging Turkish OU 28G guns and the 3 nearest me all have several - another can order as they don't actually carry stock anymore. Stuffing cartridges in your pocket? pretty sure I could put over 100 in my pockets no problems.

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Bruno - 

Yes a 28b purchase is silly compared to a .410 .Additional to enfield spares excellent points  when i go into 1 of my 4 local rfds to buy carts  i see .

Loads of 12 b   ,a few 20b , the odd box of .410.

If im  really lucky i see a 16 b box or 2 

And one in a blue moon one of the shops might have a 28b box thats been traded in or the shop has been given them .

I see virtually no 28b guns for sale 

Now this is while we still have lead .

What do you think it will be like when we are all shooting steel .? 

A 28b would be a bad investment right now in my opionion. 

Nothing wrong with the gun or cartridge and to that end yes 21 grm in a 28b would be better than 19 in a .410 

But not if there are no cartridges  .

 

 

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I once made an offer on a lovely little ylidiz 28b ou .that the shop had had for about 8 months .he declined my generous offer .i asked if he would throw in a slab of carts for it and id give him full asking price... he said oh i cant do that we dont stock 28b carts .i could order you 1000 though .. eh ? 

I declined .he still has that gun on his racks priced at £150 less than i offered him .

2 1/2 years later 

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2 hours ago, captainhastings said:

Out of interest can you get a bolt action in 3inch ? When I  asked the fella if it was 3 inch he didn't really know

What make is it, quite a few bolt actions were 3 inch.

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9 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

"Silly"? Stu, Do explain. Why buy a small gauge gun then have to use Magnum cartridges to deliver a decent payload - the 28G throws 19gms (your average .410 3" load) with ease as well as producing a far better pattern.

The .410 is small, and any increased payloads are in a longer "proportionately" wad/  load column.  In 2 inch it was long enough. in .2.5 inch as long as practically envisaged at the time. But the 3 inch took things to the extreme. and in the early days with soft low antimony lead. The .410 suffered with chronic magnumitis. :lol:

Long soft Lead loads small bore , the sacrificed pellets in these 3 inch were considerable, and patterns were irregular and the usable pattern not proportionate in relation to the overall load.  And Everything taken into account at that time with what was used generaly then, the 2.5 inch and 1/2 oz was a more balanced load and in essence more efficient.

As we got to the 70s latter end more antimony in most lead meant harder shot, and the 3 inch started to show a bit more promise.  and the percentages went up a little, making the little .410 magnum that bit more practical. it was beginning to actually come of age if you like. Winchester fiochi and a few others with plated shot And low pressure Cases better powder options all put the .410 in a much more favourable light. and although is 28ga rival is a clear winner on the pattern plate and the field, the .410 was not in the lime light any more. . Bigger is better but small is beautiful and although the .410 really needs the extra pellet counts of the magnum it still has uses in the realms and range of its shorter cased versions, and is a lot of fun.

No one can deny the 28 has a better chance of delivering a good pattern at moderate game getting ranges. But the same could be said of the 28vs 20ga, the 20ga vs 12ga, the 123 inch vs 12 3.5 inch, & the 12vs 10ga and so on and so forth.

But having statted the obvious we are left with the core subject the .410. in all its guises. its now a lot better than it first looks. things have got better . winchester and vectan with the ball powders571 sp2 sp3  olin group . surplus / hodgons. Has real good to bear in the little .410.

I will say this here and now, i am not a .410 guru, but as a kid eley fourlongs in 4s were my go too load for rifling rabbits, not many lost with that load in my old webley bolt action. I do not remember ever hitting or shooting at anything flying very often at all.

 But only last year after the GLs were reinstated, i deliberately went out decoying pigeons with my 3 inch spanish songle hammer gun. I used a mixture of mostly fiocchi those dark green ones, and Propper old winchester mags in 6s and 7s. I know my old gun "A VANGUARD" whatever that means. is choked full choke and it seems to like the fiocchis magnums much better i had a vey pleasant day it was nice weather not warm just ideal. my young Labrador learned a lot that day and i ended up with 25 pigeons shot between 15 and 35 ish yards . Not my biggest day but i remember walking off that field back to the car and feeling quite pleased with my self and fully satisfied with how that gun and .410 had done. i will do that again i am sure of that.

 

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Stu, you need to change your supplier m8. I still refer to your previous comment regarding the scarcity of the 28G - have a quick look on Guntrader and see how many 28G OU's are for sale compared to .410's. I would also like to add for those who extol the .410's diminutive size - the 28G is often built on the same action - the cartridge is around 3mm larger in diameter - very little difference.

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