Update from BASC / DEFRA

[GingerCat]

Just now, Westley said:

Justification for a tasering, I feel  !

Not in this age

[Westley]

Just now, GingerCat said:

Not in this age

No, we did not have them, but we did not really need them either. No cctv or mobile phones, no problem  !

[motty]

47 minutes ago, old'un said:

As a general rule most corn sown at this time of year on a well drilled seed bed will NOT suffer any great loss from pigeons, they may scratch the surface lightly but if the field is well sown the seeds should be at least half an inch below the surface, if its direct drilled then there is no way any pigeon will get to that seed, on the other hand a broadcast field with light harrowing may suffer some lose of seed to pigeons, but like I said, I have never seen a sown field fail or partly fail due to pigeons.

Blacks on the other hand a completely different story.

I don't think the field will fail at all. In fact, most fields will never fail to pigeon damage. It is, however, damage limitation. Will the farmer get 2 tons an acre or 3?

40 minutes ago, holloway said:

To be honest David i think you must have the patience of a saint to keep posting on this forum when all surely must have seen the government guidelines for themselves .It is very simple to understand  not ambiguous at all we have a global pandemic that the government is trying very hard to manage as best  it can the measures taken have i think helped so far.

Why these clowns need BASC to get involved is beyond me they must be completely thick without a braincell between them ,this is about more that shooting surely ?What do they all expect Basc to say ...."yes fine carry on as normal and if you need an emergency service etc just tell them Basc said it was fine to carry on its not our fault we didnt know .When i see what the NHS is doing every day and then read the absolute garbage being written on here it makes me sick to the stomach !

 

To he honest, the sort of garbage you're posting here annoys me!

Do the farmer's crops require protecting? Yes, is the answer. 

As I keep saying, if there is no justification to shoot now, then there never should be! 

[marsh man]

39 minutes ago, holloway said:

To be honest David i think you must have the patience of a saint to keep posting on this forum when all surely must have seen the government guidelines for themselves .It is very simple to understand  not ambiguous at all we have a global pandemic that the government is trying very hard to manage as best  it can the measures taken have i think helped so far.

Why these clowns need BASC to get involved is beyond me they must be completely thick without a braincell between them ,this is about more that shooting surely ?What do they all expect Basc to say ...."yes fine carry on as normal and if you need an emergency service etc just tell them Basc said it was fine to carry on its not our fault we didnt know .When i see what the NHS is doing every day and then read the absolute garbage being written on here it makes me sick to the stomach !

 

Very true , you get the ones who are constantly knocking them and then you get the ones looking for shooting who say they are B A S C insured ,so if they are out now without the proper paperwork and the police are not convinced they are shooting purely for crop protection they think that's alright I am insured with B A S C , that would be a complete waste of time as B A S C said you are on your own , far to many ifs and buts for them to safe guard you from losing your s g c .

[clangerman]

farmers definitely have different views if a field needs protection or not some rush to the phone others wouldn’t ring if you paid them 

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, holloway said:

To be honest David i think you must have the patience of a saint to keep posting on this forum when all surely must have seen the government guidelines for themselves .It is very simple to understand  not ambiguous at all we have a global pandemic that the government is trying very hard to manage as best  it can the measures taken have i think helped so far.

Why these clowns need BASC to get involved is beyond me they must be completely thick without a braincell between them ,this is about more that shooting surely ?What do they all expect Basc to say ...."yes fine carry on as normal and if you need an emergency service etc just tell them Basc said it was fine to carry on its not our fault we didnt know .When i see what the NHS is doing every day and then read the absolute garbage being written on here it makes me sick to the stomach !

 

Since you have all the brain cells and can see what others cannot - who has asked BASC to recommend breaking the rules? This thread seems a good one to post in as it was started by the representative of one shooting organisation  - it is not personal.

We are exercising our right to apply pressure to all shooting organisations who are presumed to be representing our shooting interests to lobby Defra to  grow up and accept that being alone in wide open near deserted locations that are not open to the public, particularly if its a only short distance from home, is an exception to rules aimed at stopping people getting up close and personal in groups. Government guidelines are just that a general guide that has exceptions that they seem incapable of grasping for themselves.

Twisting it round to endangering the NHS is really scraping the bottom of the Look At Me barrel.

For the record, I and I guess some others too have not been out shooting yet this year - having seen the start of corona virus and very wet ground chosen to wait till drier full on spring which is the main time we can make a real difference. I had planned being out over a month ago but chose to wait a week or two more till it became much more important.

NOW is beyond the time Defra ought to have been shamed into waking up but as is common in politics, a few CEO's are not up to their job.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Dave-G

[Scully]

If those who go out, or asked to go out, aren’t putting themselves or anyone else at risk, then each to their own. Only they are in a position to judge. 

[marsh man]

20 minutes ago, clangerman said:

farmers definitely have different views if a field needs protection or not some rush to the phone others wouldn’t ring if you paid them 

The way I understand it is the request to protect the farmers crop have to come from the landowner , even if you knew the crop was being drilled you couldn't go and have a look because they would class it as a non essential journey , then if and when the farmer do ring you up you would need to show whoever wanted to see it the paperwork or the text to be on that field , also depending what county you are in you might have to inform the police what field you are shooting and to get a ref number , as you have already had the police called out to where you were shooting you are well aware that one mistake could be the loss of your s g c , possibly forever . 

[Farmboy91]

1 minute ago, marsh man said:

The way I understand it is the request to protect the farmers crop have to come from the landowner , even if you knew the crop was being drilled you couldn't go and have a look because they would class it as a non essential journey , then if and when the farmer do ring you up you would need to show whoever wanted to see it the paperwork or the text to be on that field , also depending what county you are in you might have to inform the police what field you are shooting and to get a ref number , as you have already had the police called out to where you were shooting you are well aware that one mistake could be the loss of your s g c , possibly forever . 

I've just got off the phone to the farmer, spoke to him about the drilling today, there was about 20 or so pige on it and half a dozen blacks. He said sugar beet is in, keep an eye on it and if the bird's a hitting it fill your boots. 

Going to keep an eye on it throughout the morning and over the next couple days, still not playing on making more till I've spoke to the local firearms dept though. 

[Dave-G]

3 minutes ago, marsh man said:

The way I understand it is the request to protect the farmers crop have to come from the landowner , even if you knew the crop was being drilled you couldn't go and have a look because they would class it as a non essential journey , then if and when the farmer do ring you up you would need to show whoever wanted to see it the paperwork or the text to be on that field , also depending what county you are in you might have to inform the police what field you are shooting and to get a ref number , as you have already had the police called out to where you were shooting you are well aware that one mistake could be the loss of your s g c , possibly forever . 

That seems to be an underhand way to put hurdles in our path to me. Lots of us just get on with the job as was arranged rather than keep pestering farmers.

[Farmboy91]

Just now, Dave-G said:

That seems to be an underhand way to put hurdles in our path to me. Lots of us just get on with the job as was arranged rather than keep pestering farmers.

Up until now that's how all my shooting has been, they're a busy bunch and I hate to call unnecessarily.

[marsh man]

5 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

That seems to be an underhand way to put hurdles in our path to me. Lots of us just get on with the job as was arranged rather than keep pestering farmers.

Ignore it at your peril , if you want to keep your s g c .

 

6 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said:

Up until now that's how all my shooting has been, they're a busy bunch and I hate to call unnecessarily.

I would urgently advise you to read the guide lines .

[Farmboy91]

2 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Ignore it at your peril , if you want to keep your s g c .

 

I would urgently advise you to read the guide lines .

I'm referring pre coronavirus.

[bornfree]

Iam out foxing tonight. Got a letter from the MD of the poultry company I shoot for  I hope it's good enough.

[Dave-G]

2 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Ignore it at your peril , if you want to keep your s g c .

 

I would urgently advise you to read the guide lines .

Is that government guidelines or one's from an organisation trying to fool us its trying, but not achieving much for its members?

[marsh man]

Just now, Dave-G said:

Is that government guidelines or one's from an organisation trying to fool us its trying, but not achieving much for its members?

Best for you to find out through the proper channels rather than than word of mouth , the way we have done it in the past is now in the history books and you would need to follow the new guidelines .

[clangerman]

25 minutes ago, marsh man said:

The way I understand it is the request to protect the farmers crop have to come from the landowner , even if you knew the crop was being drilled you couldn't go and have a look because they would class it as a non essential journey , then if and when the farmer do ring you up you would need to show whoever wanted to see it the paperwork or the text to be on that field , also depending what county you are in you might have to inform the police what field you are shooting and to get a ref number , as you have already had the police called out to where you were shooting you are well aware that one mistake could be the loss of your s g c , possibly forever . 

most of my perms are farmer owned the police would definitely have spoken to the farmer had they been called out to me as i was shooting a field 20yrds from the farmers front door which they could clearly see 

[Dave-G]

1 minute ago, marsh man said:

Best for you to find out through the proper channels rather than than word of mouth , the way we have done it in the past is now in the history books and you would need to follow the new guidelines .

Not being rude but that avoids the question of who's guidelines you suggest we follow, gov's or org's, others?

[clangerman]

9 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Not being rude but that avoids the question of who's guidelines you suggest we follow, gov's or org's, others?

i have gone with ringing 101 give all the details and farmers number get a log number and not had a problem so far 

[marsh man]

13 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Not being rude but that avoids the question of who's guidelines you suggest we follow, gov's or org's, others?

To begin with , ring up your local police force and ask for guidance for what you need to do as they are the ones you need to convince you have everything in order if called upon , some county forces might have different guidelines so you need to get it right.

[Dave-G]

51 minutes ago, marsh man said:

To begin with , ring up your local police force and ask for guidance for what you need to do as they are the ones you need to convince you have everything in order if called upon , some county forces might have different guidelines so you need to get it right.

And that's much of the problems we face because government abdicates uniformity, sometimes due to political leanings. 

I'm not being critical of Leicester force in particular but although they may be OK about pest control by shooting if we call 101 they have yet to publish anything about it on their guidelines page which i can't seem to find just now - I'll edit this when I do.

 

EDIT Hmm I read somewhere on this forum very recently Essex has published shooting guidelines about what they consider are essential or not - very good and clear advice on their part. I'll try to find it....

Mentalmacs post on page 13 of this thread, which I do not think has been published - maybe they'd rather have umpteen calls for clarification instead. Copy/paste:

Posted 10 hours ago

I was talking to the head FEO of Essex Police this morning as I’m having an address change sorted and called him up. 
I asked his opinion on the above argument. 
He advised:

Follow BASC’s advice. If it’s essential pest control, you’re out on your own, you will be social distanced etc... then it’s ok. He gave some scenarios...

- if you are pigeon shooting on freshly drilled peas etc... for later year crop protection - that’s essential. 
- if you are roost shooting or just walking about taking the odd pop at a pigeon etc... it’s not. 
- if you are shooting rabbits on a field to protect horses/donkeys from leg breaks because of rabbit damage to paddock, that’s essential. 
- if you are shooting rabbits on a golf course to protect the green, it’s not essential. 

Basically - protecting livestock, animals and crops are essential - protecting trees and fields for golf, deer damage, ‘just because’ isn’t. 
 

He said that it’s best to phone 101 and get a URN each time you go - as police have been advised that if they get called out to you and you haven’t got a good reason to be there, they are to sizes guns and certs and the licensing team will review your case after all this COVID stuff is over as they obviously can’t pop out to see you and ask you what you were up to etc... if you have legit reason to be there (as above) and also have a URN, it’s fine to be sorted. 
 

For me personally: 

I’ll still be shooting the rabbits on the horse and donkey paddocks as they are less than 2 minutes from my house. I’ll use my HMR. I’ll get a URN each time I go now in case. 
I won’t be going over to shoot the rabbits at the golf club I shoot, as much as the owner is asking me to, as I can’t claim it as Essential - the FEO made it clear that ‘protecting grass so idiots can bat balls around it later’ isn’t essential. 

 

Durham seems to be the only force to print their position here which would very likely reduce calls asking about it at this essential crop and livestock time of the farming calendar:

https://basc.org.uk/coronavirus/firearms/

Edited April 7, 2020 by Dave-G

[marsh man]

2 hours ago, Dave-G said:

And that's much of the problems we face because government abdicates uniformity, sometimes due to political leanings. 

I'm not being critical of Leicester force in particular but although they may be OK about pest control by shooting if we call 101 they have yet to publish anything about it on their guidelines page which i can't seem to find just now - I'll edit this when I do.

I will not be going until we are lifted out of lock down , when I start going again I have got a written document from the owner of the estate I go on stating it is essential for me to carry out crop protection to safeguard a food crop ect , ect , this have got the estate heading on top of paper , my name , signed and two telephone numbers so whoever query the paperwork can ring one of the numbers to confirm who I am , when the time come I will also ring the local police to find out if I need to do anything else , then hopefully I can carry on without any more calls . 

Edited April 7, 2020 by marsh man

[lancer425]

1 minute ago, marsh man said:

I will not be going until we are lifted out of lock down , when I start going again I have got a written document form the owner of the estate I go on stating it is essential for me to carry out crop protection to safeguard a food crop ect , ect , this have got the estate heading on top of paper , my name , signed and two telephone numbers so whoever query the paperwork can ring one of the numbers to confirm who I am , when the time come I will also ring the local police to find out if I need to do anything else , then hopefully I can carry on without any more calls . 

I wont be going out either until its all over.  I am not that concerned about pigeons at mo, but Corvids and Foxes i would rather be out just at the moment i admit. But I will obey the law and stay home protect NHS ETC.

  I am trying my hardest to stay safe, and so are my other four members of my immediate family. I do not want to be talking to a policeman never mind being taken in a police car or anything such like. 

   I have no real issues with my FAC and SGCs regarding police, but i see and hear from people i know, how relatively innocent things sometimes no fault whatsoever of the gun owner, and completely outside their control that can put their licences into review . These enquiries can take months and months to sort out, with guns stored RFDs or seized by police. We do live in complex times re gun licensing, why on earth rock the boat at a time like this. ?

No not me ill wait, wait until i am told i can go back out 100%. I am way to much in love with wildfowling to risk any even remote possibility of the police getting exited about what i am doing slap bang in the middle of this little lot.

 

 

 

[Scully]

Like I said, each to their own, 👍

[Mentalmac]

1 hour ago, Dave-G said:

And that's much of the problems we face because government abdicates uniformity, sometimes due to political leanings. 

I'm not being critical of Leicester force in particular but although they may be OK about pest control by shooting if we call 101 they have yet to publish anything about it on their guidelines page which i can't seem to find just now - I'll edit this when I do.

 

EDIT Hmm I read somewhere on this forum very recently Essex has published shooting guidelines about what they consider are essential or not - very good and clear advice on their part. I'll try to find it....

Mentalmacs post on page 13 of this thread, which I do not think has been published - maybe they'd rather have umpteen calls for clarification instead. Copy/paste:

Posted 10 hours ago

I was talking to the head FEO of Essex Police this morning as I’m having an address change sorted and called him up. 
I asked his opinion on the above argument. 
He advised:

Follow BASC’s advice. If it’s essential pest control, you’re out on your own, you will be social distanced etc... then it’s ok. He gave some scenarios...

- if you are pigeon shooting on freshly drilled peas etc... for later year crop protection - that’s essential. 
- if you are roost shooting or just walking about taking the odd pop at a pigeon etc... it’s not. 
- if you are shooting rabbits on a field to protect horses/donkeys from leg breaks because of rabbit damage to paddock, that’s essential. 
- if you are shooting rabbits on a golf course to protect the green, it’s not essential. 

Basically - protecting livestock, animals and crops are essential - protecting trees and fields for golf, deer damage, ‘just because’ isn’t. 
 

He said that it’s best to phone 101 and get a URN each time you go - as police have been advised that if they get called out to you and you haven’t got a good reason to be there, they are to sizes guns and certs and the licensing team will review your case after all this COVID stuff is over as they obviously can’t pop out to see you and ask you what you were up to etc... if you have legit reason to be there (as above) and also have a URN, it’s fine to be sorted. 
 

For me personally: 

I’ll still be shooting the rabbits on the horse and donkey paddocks as they are less than 2 minutes from my house. I’ll use my HMR. I’ll get a URN each time I go now in case. 
I won’t be going over to shoot the rabbits at the golf club I shoot, as much as the owner is asking me to, as I can’t claim it as Essential - the FEO made it clear that ‘protecting grass so idiots can bat balls around it later’ isn’t essential. 

 

Durham seems to be the only force to print their position here which would very likely reduce calls asking about it at this essential crop and livestock time of the farming calendar:

https://basc.org.uk/coronavirus/firearms/

Totally Dave - the head FEO was quick to say ‘it’s not a licensing issue’ - it only becomes ‘his problem’ If we get in Trouble with the law. 
I went out tonight and shot 3 rabbits in 15 mins and walked the edges of the donkey and horse land I keep rabbits low on... even still, I got a URN. 
I also poo-picked the donkey paddock, dropped some local fresh eggs to the old chap of 90 who lives near the land (anti bact the box first!) and left some fresh eggs in the stables for the horse owner for when she turns up tomorrow at 5am. 
All good if it’s essential pest control.