Raja Clavata Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 On 11/04/2020 at 14:09, Mice! said: You mean all the people on the coaches being driven from airports, people have short memories. To be fair though that was people returning from the region that the virus is believed to have originated in and at the time the global epicenter of the outbreak. From recollection there were around 200 people. I am not aware of any of the data on subsequent infections from that being released in the public domain but I think we can be confident that the data was looked at very carefully and may have been the basis for some of the subsequent (current) policy around this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: To be fair though that was people returning from the region that the virus is believed to have originated in and at the time the global epicenter of the outbreak. From recollection there were around 200 people. I am not aware of any of the data on subsequent infections from that being released in the public domain but I think we can be confident that the data was looked at very carefully and may have been the basis for some of the subsequent (current) policy around this. They didn't just walk out of the airport though did they, unlike a lot of people who flew in from New York, Spain, Italy........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 Just now, Mice! said: They didn't just walk out of the airport though did they, unlike a lot of people who flew in from New York, Spain, Italy........ No they didn't, for good reason. How many from each of those destinations did fly in and just walk out of the airport? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 All of them I imagine, and I keep forgetting about France, it still strikes me as strange how the flights in from Europe weren't restricted far sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 Bear in mind our governments original policy appeared to be along the lines of herd immunity, it was only when the magnitude of the issues in other countries became known and the model using herd immunity predicted circa 250,000 deaths that they changed tack to social distancing and the lock-down started to be put in place. We'd have to piece together the entire timeline to figure this out definitively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) Quote I don't know your personal circumstances, so don't know if you'd loose or gain, but why should the working man loose again and again? 12GAUGE82 makes a telling point. I will be writing to my MP and I hope others will to, to theirs, to say this: Why is it that if an individual applies for Universal Credit during the coronavirus pandemic that it is mean tested? If you have a certain amount of capital you get nothing. Yet companies that apply for the government's furlough scheme aren't means tested? Surely if a company is solvent and has substantial cash reserves it shouldn't be allowed to be given money from the furlough scheme? For the truth is this isn't otherwise then about "the working man" but about company bosses being protected against dipping into the capital from which their bonuses are paid? Please PW members feel free to cut and paste in any letter to your MP. Edited April 12, 2020 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 38 minutes ago, enfieldspares said: 12GAUGE82 makes a telling point. I will be writing to my MP and I hope others will to, to theirs, to say this: Why is it that if an individual applies for Universal Credit during the coronavirus pandemic that it is mean tested? If you have a certain amount of capital you get nothing. Yet companies that apply for the government's furlough scheme aren't means tested? Surely if a company is solvent and has substantial cash reserves it shouldn't be allowed to be given money from the furlough scheme? For the truth is this isn't otherwise then about "the working man" but about company bosses being protected against dipping into the capital from which their bonuses are paid? Please PW members feel free to cut and paste in any letter to your MP. All the companies would do is make the people redundant. Then the ‘working man’ would get very little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRINITY Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Mice! said: All of them I imagine, and I keep forgetting about France, it still strikes me as strange how the flights in from Europe weren't restricted far sooner. Yes but what's the point. Just watching 10pm news and the had a film crew at hastings beach front seeing how lockdown was working this bank holiday. As they were filming a rubber dinghy with 32 illegals arrived on the beach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 Quote All the companies would do is make the people redundant. Not if the law didn't allow them to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, enfieldspares said: Not if the law didn't allow them to. But the law does allow them to. And so it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, TRINITY said: Yes but what's the point. Just watching 10pm news and the had a film crew at hastings beach front seeing how lockdown was working this bank holiday. As they were filming a rubber dinghy with 32 illegals arrived on the beach. Well those 32 will be quarantined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 At the current infection rate (5k per day symptomatic but 40 times that asymptomatic) it will be early December before herd immunity is obtained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 I think its an absolute disgrace that up to 20 flights a day are arriving from New York . 30-40 from Madrid and Barcelona into Heathrow and people just come through unchecked and get allowed onto the Picadilly line into London willy nilly. no checks nothing. Straight into trains loaded (overloaded?) with commutors What ever happened to FO and PO we don't want you? 34 minutes ago, Mice! said: Well those 32 will be quarantined. no they are not, staggeringly, they get sent to a reception centre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 51 minutes ago, AVB said: All the companies would do is make the people redundant. Then the ‘working man’ would get very little. And I think that shows the huge flaw that is showing itself in the western world. I'm certainly no socialist, there needs to be incentive for people to strive and achieve, but what's happening at the moment, is once business becomes successful, they are allowed and rewarded for sucking society dry, many pay near minimum wage that can't support a family or buy housing, they make obscene profit, they offer terrible working conditions, turning employees into virtual robots, they offer no job security, they give very little back to society in either far taxes or training staff and they take no risk of their business failing, expecting the tax payer to pick up the pieces if it goes wrong, under the threat of "making people redundant". We need to see change, on a global scale, one country's government can't do it alone in a globalist world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, Vince Green said: I think its an absolute disgrace that up to 20 flights a day are arriving from New York . 30-40 from Madrid and Barcelona into Heathrow and people just come through unchecked and get allowed onto the Picadilly line into London willy nilly. no checks nothing. Straight into trains loaded (overloaded?) with commutors What ever happened to FO and PO we don't want you? no they are not, staggeringly, they get sent to a reception centre I didn't realise there were still flights arriving? Just tried looking but most things keep saying I need Instagram. I've seen one plane this weekend. I thought the reception centres were basically quarantine, they aren't just being turned loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, Vince Green said: I think its an absolute disgrace that up to 20 flights a day are arriving from New York . 30-40 from Madrid and Barcelona into Heathrow and people just come through unchecked and get allowed onto the Picadilly line into London willy nilly. no checks nothing. Straight into trains loaded (overloaded?) with commutors Where do you get 30-40 flights from Madrid and Barcelona in Heathrow? I think there are two from each city’s per day at the moment. 5 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: And I think that shows the huge flaw that is showing itself in the western world. I'm certainly no socialist, there needs to be incentive for people to strive and achieve, but what's happening at the moment, is once business becomes successful, they are allowed and rewarded for sucking society dry, many pay near minimum wage that can't support a family or buy housing, they make obscene profit, they offer terrible working conditions, turning employees into virtual robots, they offer no job security, they give very little back to society in either far taxes or training staff and they take no risk of their business failing, expecting the tax payer to pick up the pieces if it goes wrong, under the threat of "making people redundant". We need to see change, on a global scale, one country's government can't do it alone in a globalist world. The majority of employers are not like that imo. And in the pre virus situation of nearly full employment employees have the choice of working for different employees if they wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, AVB said: Where do you get 30-40 flights from Madrid and Barcelona in Heathrow? I think there are two from each city’s per day at the moment. The majority of employers are not like that imo. And in the pre virus situation of nearly full employment employees have the choice of working for different employees if they wish. They've got the choice of working for the best of a bad bunch, which doesn't make it good. I think employment has got a long, long way to go and in the future, we will be judged harshly. The way tax avoidance is practiced is a disgrace, democracy and government don't really run the country, there is probably now more money in existence than things to spend it on, it's virtually a Ponzi scheme designed to keep the wheels grinding on. Give those who simply refuse to work more than they're entitled to, for they are dangerous as they have little to loose, keep the working masses just about treading water, so they feel they have something to loose, while those in power keep their grip, it's always been that way, just enforced in different ways. If the wheels come off this time, I say reset the books, there'll be some ex billionaires who wake up, in the same boat as everyone else for once! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 9 hours ago, Stonepark said: At the current infection rate (5k per day symptomatic but 40 times that asymptomatic) it will be early December before herd immunity is obtained. Where do you get the 40x asymptomatic from - in the UK we are only testing those members of the public who present themselves to hospital (oh and children of the Duchy of Lancaster it would appear)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 9 hours ago, Vince Green said: I think its an absolute disgrace that up to 20 flights a day are arriving from New York . 30-40 from Madrid and Barcelona into Heathrow.... Just checked, 6 from the whole of Spain, and although I was not checking NY, I don't think there were anywhere near that number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 8 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: If the wheels come off this time, I say reset the books, there'll be some ex billionaires who wake up, in the same boat as everyone else for once! How would that actually work in practice? Not that it's gonna happen anyway - the great leveller here is, as it always has been, death - best avoided I hear... On the other recent point it would really be helpful if there was data available on the actual number of incoming and outgoing flights and better still actual numbers of people. As already stated there are no leisure passengers, no "normal" business passengers, it's been well documented that in some cases the flights have one or two, or even zero passengers on them. Whilst there may be more that could be done around this, personally I'd like to see the issues around PPE, testing and ICU infrastructure and training resolved before things like this. Clearly the data shows that the government and civil service have bigger fish to fry right now. Even in times of war, the winning strategy is to pick your battles. Just now, henry d said: Just checked, 6 from the whole of Spain, and although I was not checking NY, I don't think there were anywhere near that number. I checked the NY route, whilst you can book through multiple carriers they are being operated by a handful at the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 31 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: How would that actually work in practice? Not that it's gonna happen anyway - the great leveller here is, as it always has been, death - best avoided I hear... How would it work if they put the burden on the working masses, again? I think people have had enough this time, the young in the west have been sold up the river, born into a world where they can barely afford to get buy, let alone raise a family, buy a home, or secure a decent job. If it's as bad as the 2008 crash, I say tot up people's assets, anything over say a million, gets redistributed and currency reprinted, debt reset to zero. Tell me, how many average people would loose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: How would it work if they put the burden on the working masses, again? I think people have had enough this time, the young in the west have been sold up the river, born into a world where they can barely afford to get buy, let alone raise a family, buy a home, or secure a decent job. If it's as bad as the 2008 crash, I say tot up people's assets, anything over say a million, gets redistributed and currency reprinted, debt reset to zero. Tell me, how many average people would loose? Wouldn't that just devalue what "ordinary" people did have though? If it was reasonable to ask for a million for your hundred grand house because the people who would be buying it can suddenly afford that... You'd ask it wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, ClemFandango said: Wouldn't that just devalue what "ordinary" people did have though? If it was reasonable to ask for a million for your hundred grand house because the people who would be buying it can suddenly afford that... You'd ask it wouldn't you? No, because currency would be reprinted to reflect what your assets were worth. You've got to remember, money is nothing more than a token to represent value of goods and services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: No, because currency would be reprinted to reflect what your assets were worth. You've got to remember, money is nothing more than a token to represent value of goods and services. Yeah but if everybody has more. And then you reprint money to reflect your assets. How has anybody gained anything? It's all relative surely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfer Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 Watch the film containgen made 10 years ago , it’s the script for what’s happening here , seriously a bat causing all this ? Yeah right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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