Deaths

[ordnance]

3 hours ago, henry d said:

More and thicker tinfoil required

+1

Quote

Something about tricking us into loading tracking software on our phones so they can spy on us using 5G network comes to mind?

Do you think they can not already do that with 4 G, if they wanted to. 

[ordnance]

 

Quote

 

8 hours ago, Jaymo said:

A hundred a day , that’s less than 7% of our normal daily mortality toll, but people have only focused on this one cause of death.

33000 deaths but more than 68000 births in the same period!!!!

 

Your point is, people live and die all the time. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by ordnance

[TRINITY]

23 minutes ago, ordnance said:

 

Do you think they can not already do that with 4 G, if they wanted to. 

I am far from being IT knowledgeable, but I have often thought who really knows what is buried deep down in many of the popular types of software.

Remember WW2 when we cracked enigma. Many instances of knowing a potential event could not be acted upon for fear of given the nazis suspicion we had it cracked. I am with you I believe the capability is already there .

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, TRINITY said:

I am far from being IT knowledgeable, but I have often thought who really knows what is buried deep down in many of the popular types of software.

Remember WW2 when we cracked enigma. Many instances of knowing a potential event could not be acted upon for fear of given the nazis suspicion we had it cracked. I am with you I believe the capability is already there .

The original reference to this in this thread related to tongue in cheek comments about the latest high(ish) profile recruit to the David Ike school of logic and rhetoric i.e. not to be taken seriously...

[ordnance]

5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

The original reference to this in this thread related to tongue in cheek comments about the latest high(ish) profile recruit to the David Ike school of logic and rhetoric i.e. not to be taken seriously...

I wouldn't bet on that. 

[TRINITY]

Like I said Raja, I am no expert, just a suspicious old sod 😉

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, TRINITY said:

Like I said Raja, I am no expert, just a suspicious old sod 😉

I’m no expert either, I can’t even work out who “they” are let alone figure out why “they” would want to spy on “us” 😂

[Mungler]

There’s some interesting issues flying here. If the gloves are off for some brutal discussion then...

From what I have seen, many lives are unnecessarily stretched out beyond their due dates and without any quality of life - care homes are stacked with people with chronic conditions waiting to die and vascular dementia is of course top of that list.

Now then, the average life expectancy of someone entering a care home is just 6 months.

Following on, can we be shocked or surprised about the effect of the virus on the heavily immune compromised residents of care homes?

Following Raja’s post - what monetary cost or value do we as a society place or are willing to all spend / sustain (and do remember the governent can only ever spend ‘our money’) on preserving these care homes and having regard to the 6 month average life expectancy? Discuss.

 

[Raja Clavata]

This is the crux of what I was gently building up to, then BOOM! 🙂 

Bloomsbury rules please chaps...

[Mungler]

11 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

This is the crux of what I was gently building up to, then BOOM! 🙂 

Bloomsbury rules please chaps...

We’ve been circling this drain a while now, pardon the pun.

Edit

Once people fall in with the line of thought then the next question is ‘what about all those people who are in similar medical positions but at home (and have daily attending carers and perhaps family in situ in place of residential care)?

And then apply the above to the age / death rate stats we now have.

And now tell me why we shut the economy down.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Mungler

[henry d]

46 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Following Raja’s post - what monetary cost or value do we as a society place or are willing to all spend / sustain (and do remember the governent can only ever spend ‘our money’) on preserving these care homes and having regard to the 6 month average life expectancy? Discuss

Why start there, why not start at birth? Children who may or may not survive the first month's or year, they are costly in every respect, and if they survive will be a drain on resources...

Not that I advocate either scenario

[Smokersmith]

The care home issue is visible because lockdown stopped the death rate doubling every 3 days, and overwhelming the NHS.

Tell me how this would have been acceptable?

[SpringDon]

5 minutes ago, henry d said:

Why start there, why not start at birth? Children who may or may not survive the first month's or year, they are costly in every respect, and if they survive will be a drain on resources...

Not that I advocate either scenario

You might be on to something there, no sense wasting money. And then we can start on the rest of the untermensch .

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Following Raja’s post - what monetary cost or value do we as a society place or are willing to all spend / sustain (and do remember the governent can only ever spend ‘our money’) on preserving these care homes and having regard to the 6 month average life expectancy? Discuss.

Boom indeed. 

I wonder how many people die every year in care homes with barely a mention,  my parents barely made 60 which is still young to die, but people over 80 dying I'm sorry but that's life, we can't live forever.

Others have said many in the care homes would likely have died this year or next because of age or underlying health conditions, but covid has sped this up, not being with loved at the end for me makes people more emotional and the media have jumped on this.

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 06/04/2020 at 13:03, bwana said:

Hong Kong - population 7 million,densely populated -deaths 4.

U.K.- population c66 million,dense in parts - deaths 5,000.

..?????

 

hello, do you live in HK, i do not see any interaction posts with replies to your thread, your PW info is empty to ???? are you part of the shooting fraternity, 

[Raja Clavata]

18 minutes ago, Mungler said:

We’ve been circling this drain a while now, pardon the pun.

Edit

Once people fall in with the line of thought then the next question is ‘what about all those people who are in similar medical positions but at home (and have daily attending carers and perhaps family in situ in place of residential care)?

And then apply the above to the age / death rate stats we now have.

And now tell me why we shut the economy down.

Getting spooky now 👍

[Smokersmith]

18 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

The care home issue is visible because lockdown stopped the death rate doubling every 3 days, and overwhelming the NHS.

Tell me how this would have been acceptable?

Repeated as people seem to be missing this.

[Retsdon]

 

'First, they came for the socialists....' 

Why stop at 6 months average life expectancy? Why not a year? Actually,  better draw a line under anyone of retirement age..after all they're not contributing to the economy, they're occupying valuable housing resources, and they are massive drain on the NHS. Objectively speaking, they'd be more use dead. So how about a moratorium on free NHS treatment for the over 65s? If they can afford it, fair enough otherwise just let nature take its course.

Discuss.

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

Repeated as people seem to be missing this.

It would not have been acceptable. Unfortunately we are facing the reality of a poorly thought through and ill considered process (its certainly not a plan) that is based on a vaccine arriving like the cavalry over the hill to save the life styles that we have got used to. 

The vaccine is unlikely to arrive anytime soon and in between times the economy and education that sustains life is in freefall. We  need to rethink a new normal, with a herd immunity plan that properly isolates all the vulnerable and gets the economy on the move.

2 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

 

'First, they came for the socialists....' 

Why stop at 6 months average life expectancy? Why not a year? Actually,  better draw a line under anyone of retirement age..after all they're not contributing to the economy, they're occupying valuable housing resources, and they are massive drain on the NHS. Objectively speaking, they'd be more use dead. So how about a moratorium on free NHS treatment for the over 65s? If they can afford it, fair enough otherwise just let nature take its course.

Discuss.

Whoa steady on I like retirement. Lets set the limit at 85 at least 🙂 

[Mice!]

10 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

Repeated as people seem to be missing this.

 

29 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

The care home issue is visible because lockdown stopped the death rate doubling every 3 days, and overwhelming the NHS.

Tell me how this would have been acceptable?

Didn't miss it, and it wouldn't have been but the figures show its mostly the over 65s that are affected,  and the older you get the worse it gets, which means the care homes will be hardest hit.

I stated elsewhere that the initial lockdown needed to be done for me, stop the spread protect the NHS. 

But we can't stay in lockdown forever. 

And I think what some of the care homes staff have done is amazing,  staying on site away from their own families,  camping even to try and prevent the spread getting in.

 

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

It would not have been acceptable. Unfortunately we are facing the reality of a poorly thought through and ill considered process (its certainly not a plan) that is based on a vaccine arriving like the cavalry over the hill to save the life styles that we have got used to. 

The vaccine is unlikely to arrive anytime soon and in between times the economy and education that sustains life is in freefall. We  need to rethink a new normal, with a herd immunity plan that properly isolates all the vulnerable and gets the economy on the move.

Whoa steady on I like retirement. Lets set the limit at 85 at least 🙂 

You'll be alright, G. You can afford the healthcare.

[Smokersmith]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

We  need to rethink a new normal, with a herd immunity plan that properly isolates all the vulnerable and gets the economy on the move.

Do you know this will work .. ?

I don't believe that we've conclusive proof that 'immunity' is something we can rely on.

 

[Mice!]

7 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

better draw a line under anyone of retirement age..after all they're not contributing to the economy, they're occupying valuable housing resources, and they are massive drain on the NHS. Objectively speaking

How is someone who is retired not contributing to the economy? They drive new cars, eat , shop and go on holidays.

Maybe this isn't how everyone's life in retirement goes but a massive difference between someone in their own home enjoying life compared with someone seeing out their days being looked after in a care home.

My M in L does small bits of gardening jobs for old dears, which I find funny as she isn't young, but fit healthy and enjoying life, she was doing some jobs a few weeks ago and chatting through the window, the old dear said she wasn't worried at all why should she be she's 82 years old.

[Retsdon]

Just now, Smokersmith said:

I don't believe that we've conclusive proof that 'immunity' is something we can rely on.

Exactly. There's an awful lot about this virus that remains unknown. 

[Retsdon]

3 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Maybe this isn't how everyone's life in retirement goes but a massive difference between someone in their own home enjoying life compared with someone seeing out their days being looked after in a care home.

My point was where do you draw the line. The moment you draw one at all - as in person A is worth saving but person B isn't - you're on very thin moral ice, because a line can be moved.

Your example was a pensioner in their own home, who goes on holidays. So how about a pensioner not in their own home? How about one in council housing who requires a bit of social support? Which side of the line would you put him or her? Thumb up or thumb down?